Alex72cutty

Took the 72 cutlass to the shop and my mechanic says I should remove the points and get an MSD for a better drive. I was wondering if you guys can give me pros and cons since I have no knowledge on MSD products. My engine is a 350. Thanks

MDchanic

He's wrong, unless your engine has a pretty big cam (and / or other significant modifications).

- Eric

Alex72cutty

Everything is stock as far as I know. He said the car falls flat on it face when you punch it I'm assuming. Other people have told me that MSD is a better way to go. I was thinking maybe some fine tune up on the points would do the trick?

Lady72nRob71

X2.
If stock and not into high RPM racing, you will get no real benefit.
My 72 has points with 8k miles on them and I sometimes look at the tach when stopped, thinking the engine has died.
I would not introduce a more complex way to do something you will not notice.

Eidt - Lady does not hesitate when provoked, either - she just gets up and moves!

compedgemarine

when it was new it did not "fall on its face" and it had points then too. either the points are bad or out of adjustment or the timing is off or the carb is in need of a rebuild. it is possible that it is a combination of them all. on a stock engine the only real benifit to getting rid of the points is that you will not have to adjust or replace the points. if you want to do that you can install a Pertronix unit into the original distributor. all in all I would say find a new mechanic that knows how to work on something that does not have a computer in it.

shakeyhands73442

this weekend im gonna do a distributor swap from a 75-80 olds v8 (any will work). I have a 73 with points i just want a little hotter spark it will run better, my advice is dont go msd just go electronic ign. if u need any more advice just holler

Austin Jones

Or a point eliminator kit is an option! something like this http://pertronix.com/prod/ig/ignitor2/default.aspx

Alex72cutty

Thanks guys!!! Keeping all advice in mind. The carb is 2 years old. I'm not sure about the distributor and points. I have had them adjusted when I got the car two years ago.

z11375ss

X2 on this. Sounds like a carb issue to me. Get that fixed and put in some new points and I bet you'll forget all about an MSD.

Pgraziani

The points eliminator is awesome, was easy to install, reliable, and fits in the stock cap, just need 8mm plug wires. Pertronix ignitor 3

Alex72cutty

I will have the carb and the points looked at before I do anything. I will keep you all informed.

joe_padavano

Good idea. I don't know how many times this has come up, but an electronic ignition system will provide NO performance benefit over points in good condition. Now, some of the new MSD units have the ability to electronically alter the advance curves, which makes tuning easier, but if the original hardware is properly set up (and I'm guessing that on a totally stock engine, it is), you will not see ANY improvement.

Keep in mind that the whole reason that GM went to the HEI distributor was for emissions. Specifically, the feds required that new cars meet emissions requirements after 50,000 miles with no tuneup whatsoever (a sad commentary on the maintenance habits of the general public). Points can't do that.

hookem horns

I have installed Pertronix kits on several cars and boats over years. My Olds had HEI added somewhere in its past. Never had one fail and one less maintenance issue to worry about. Just set it and forget it, but no performance gain as mentioned above.

In your case, I agree with keeping points (cheap) until the other issues are resolved. Then consider some form of points replacement if you want to.

matt69olds

I love todays "mechanics" who assume that since a car is old and has outdated technology that everything needs to be replaced with the latest and greatest new parts.

When I worked in a Buick dealership years ago a kid told the service writer that the reason the customers car hesitated and was hard to start was due to not being fuel injected. Yep, every car built prior to the mid 80s was plagued with hard starts and poor drivability. I'm guessing the mechanic who suggested the electronic ignition had never heard of setting dwell, or even how to adjust it.

People managed just fine with ignition points, carburetors, etc. Get the parts on the car working the way its suppose to and I'm sure it will run fine. However, an MSD or other electronic ignition wont need to be adjusted or require periodic maintenance. Thats about the only benefit a stock engine would have.

compedgemarine

a few years ago Hot Rod or someone did a big comparison of carb vrs EFI. the reason they did it was everyone says that efi makes more power, idles better, etc, etc. they did the fine tuning on each before the test using the same engine changing only the intake. the carb made more power by a touch nearly everywhere except a couple spots in the midrange and idled as well as the efi with similar A/F ratios. the whole point in them doing it was to show that just because there is new tech it does not mean it makes it run better. cars ran for how many years with points with no major issues? unfortunately now days if the mechanic can not plug a laptop into it and let it tell him how to fix it he is lost.

Lady72nRob71

Electronic ignition is reliable and maintenance free, up 'til the day it just dies on you without warning. From my two experiences on two other vehicles, this occures far from home after it gets nice and hot. Had I had points, a screwdriver and maybe a file could have saved me from the tow truck.

z11375ss

I may have told this one already. When I owned my Speed Shop, Straightline Performance in New Lenox Illinois, I had a kid working there who went to Wyotech and thought he knew everything. They were rebuilding my Vette motor. The kid said it was nearly ready, all it needed was the distributor dropped in so he had to wait for the head wrench. I asked him why? He told me he didn't know how to do it! His knowledge was in coil packs etc. LOL!

Alex72cutty

I got my car back today and MSD is out of the picture. He said something about a carb rebuild and I'm thinking that changing the spark plugs would be an added plus. I've driven about 13,000miles since my last tune up in two years..Geesh!!!! Does anyone know a good mechanic in the DFW area that is well trained on points and carb?? I'm open on the location.

Lady72nRob71

Only ones I know of are members of this forum!

OldSchoolMuscle71

only reason Im switching to pertronix is to avoid the upkeep of points. I heard the pertronix can deliever and better burn which can increase fuel mileage but I dont know how true this is...

Big red72

I put an original pertronix set up on my 350 about 6 years ago....havent had a problem yet. Cost me about 80 for the unit, and 40 for the coil. saves headaches if you just hate messing with points.

Alex72cutty

Comes out that my points was bad. I replaced them and reset the timing and replace my fuel filter and car runs like new. Setting the dwell was a pain in the butt. I think changing to an HEI and getting rid of points will be a good way to go.

joe_padavano

Yet again, try the easy/cheap things first before throwing hundreds of dollars at a problem...



Sorry, but apparently you're doing something wrong. The Delco window distributor is THE easiest for setting dwell. Simply insert an allen wrench in the points through the window in the cap and you can adjust the dwell while the engine is running. Of course, you need to recheck the timing after setting the dwell properly.

krooser

just wondering why setting the dwell was so tuff?

MDchanic

To echo Joe:

• Start engine
• Clip two or three meter leads to battery (+), battery (-), and coil (-)
• slide open little metal cover
• Insert allen key (or fancy spring-shaft tool like I've got )
• Turn until meter needle is on "30°"
• Disconnect meter, slide door shut.

Total time maybe three minutes. Maybe.

What did YOU do?

- Eric

krooser

If you don't have a dwell meter you can get it close by turning the allen wrench in until it mis-fires then back it off until the misfire stops...

Alex72cutty

Well maybe it was my Allen wrench was short. Plus, it was my first time doing it.

MDchanic

What you really need is one of these:



Failing that, a ball-end Allen key will be much easier to use than a regular one.

- Eric

joe_padavano

Just remember, it's not the SIZE of your, ahem, allen wrench, it's how you use it... But yeah, the first time can be a problem.

(sorry, SOMEONE had to say it )

joe_padavano

And apparently Eric's allen wrench is longer, but also more flexible.

OK, I'll stop now.

MDchanic

Doesn't matter, Joe, as long as it hits the right spot .

- Eric

oldcutlass

Not even going there.

Alex72cutty

Lol.... Hopefully soon I will convert over to HEI, but thanks for that picture. I will get on just in case

compedgemarine

maybe Eric has a big allen wrench because he is over compensating for something else.

MDchanic

Nope. That's why I shoot .45 ACP and .44 Mag, and not 9mm . Gotta compensate somehow.

Reminds me of my favorite haiku, though:




- Eric

Gone Johnson

Hey, in my "72 Olds 350/350, 4bbl, I just threw in an HEI from the garage pile I had. Everyone was telling me too. They were exciting me with talk of better starts (true), and more speed and power.and I wasnt a member here yet (wouldnt have done it, if I was).
I installed a stock HEI from a 77 Olds, and MSD cap, with a "more powerful coil", and the "performance" ignition module. Set the timing and I was done.
My engine already ran great, and timing and carb was top notch.
A couple of hours max (including trips back & forth to the beer fridge), job done.
Other than an immediatly noticeble smoother idle, I was expecting something miraculous when I stomped on the long pedal but..... yawn.... just more smoothness. So, In my opinion, if want want more smooth, this is a good add on. Im sure theres a gain in power somewhere, but it aint much.

Did I mention its smooooth now????

Oh well. Back to my wiring.........