72 350 rebuild
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Thanks again for the help and advice fellas.
Ive decided I need to go by the shop and look at the cam card myself as I am fuzzy on exactly what cam has been picked. I wanna make sure its right...but I can always swap it out later easy enough.
As for gear im planning on a 3.42 or so and swappiung in a posi unit.
My tranny guy called and he is setting me up with a 9" converter as was recommended to him by the converter people he deals with. It will be a loose 2400-2800 converter.
Ive decided I need to go by the shop and look at the cam card myself as I am fuzzy on exactly what cam has been picked. I wanna make sure its right...but I can always swap it out later easy enough.
As for gear im planning on a 3.42 or so and swappiung in a posi unit.
My tranny guy called and he is setting me up with a 9" converter as was recommended to him by the converter people he deals with. It will be a loose 2400-2800 converter.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 136
From: middle of Sweden
i like the probe pistons as well.
I'd bore the block .068" over and drop in a set probe 4.125" sbc 400 pistons that are designed to be mated with a 5.700" rod..
Connect those slugs to sbc 6.200" i beam or h beam rods.
Have your rod journals turned down to a 2.1" rod and widened for sbc rods with a nice radius. Use clevite 77's h series sbc rod bearings.
Have the mains turned .010" and use clevite 77's p series olds main bearings.
You don't have to worry about 23 degree valve reliefs causing any interference with the valves unless you add valves larger than 2.05" & 1.625" and run a cam with more than .570" lift. I wouldn't recommend milling the heads more than .040" either. Use felpro marine head gaskets #1155.
N cranks are lighter than 330 cranks and are more than strong enough to handle 500 plus hp. Be sure to get the crank balanced.
I could sit here and tell you how to build a killer motor but i won't because it just a waste of time, i can tell you are going to let your machinist build your motor, which isn't a bad thing since he will probably be the guy assembling your engine from the vibe i'm getting.
Hope you get what you want and pay for.
I'd bore the block .068" over and drop in a set probe 4.125" sbc 400 pistons that are designed to be mated with a 5.700" rod..
Connect those slugs to sbc 6.200" i beam or h beam rods.
Have your rod journals turned down to a 2.1" rod and widened for sbc rods with a nice radius. Use clevite 77's h series sbc rod bearings.
Have the mains turned .010" and use clevite 77's p series olds main bearings.
You don't have to worry about 23 degree valve reliefs causing any interference with the valves unless you add valves larger than 2.05" & 1.625" and run a cam with more than .570" lift. I wouldn't recommend milling the heads more than .040" either. Use felpro marine head gaskets #1155.
N cranks are lighter than 330 cranks and are more than strong enough to handle 500 plus hp. Be sure to get the crank balanced.
I could sit here and tell you how to build a killer motor but i won't because it just a waste of time, i can tell you are going to let your machinist build your motor, which isn't a bad thing since he will probably be the guy assembling your engine from the vibe i'm getting.
Hope you get what you want and pay for.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 136
From: middle of Sweden
Okay spoke to the shop....
Here's what they gave me about the cam. Although I didn't get the product number the specs are 232 @ .050 with a 474/474 lift on a 107 LSA.
No idea how this will work with my combo but I'm happy it got switched up from the Lunati. He suggested a loose 2400 or a tight 3000 converter as the rpm range of it is 1500-6500.
Here's what they gave me about the cam. Although I didn't get the product number the specs are 232 @ .050 with a 474/474 lift on a 107 LSA.
No idea how this will work with my combo but I'm happy it got switched up from the Lunati. He suggested a loose 2400 or a tight 3000 converter as the rpm range of it is 1500-6500.
Oldsmobile 455 cid Hydraulic Camshaft, 3000-6200 RPM Range, 322 intake/322 exhaust Adv Dur, Duration @.050 232 intake/232 exhaust, Valve Lift .474 intake/.474 exhaust, Lobe C/L 113.
Application notes: W-30 Hydraulic camshaft, Matches G.M.# 402194
Stanley
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Posts: 370
From: Orlando, FL
I too doubt the cam the machinist picked with 232/232 474/474" has 107 lobe sep either, it is most likely 112 or 114. That cam might kill a tiny bit of bottom end torque but it will make gobbs of mid rpm torque above 2800 rpm or so. It's going to have a nice performance sounding idle too and it will work with worn out stock springs and stock rockers.
Last edited by SBORule; Nov 18, 2011 at 06:13 PM.
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From: Orlando, FL
10" convertors usually start @ 3000 rpm and go upwards of 5000.
9" convertors are generally in the 3500-6000 stall range.
You really don't want to go more than 3000 stall if you have 3.31, 3,55 gears.
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Yes, you are correct. Thanks for clarifying that cutlassefi.
I too doubt the cam the machinist picked with 232/232 474/474" has 107 lobe sep either, it is most likely 112 or 114. That cam might kill a tiny bit of bottom end torque but it will make gobbs of mid rpm torque above 2800 rpm or so. It's going to have a nice performance sounding idle too and it will work with worn out stock springs and stock rockers.
I too doubt the cam the machinist picked with 232/232 474/474" has 107 lobe sep either, it is most likely 112 or 114. That cam might kill a tiny bit of bottom end torque but it will make gobbs of mid rpm torque above 2800 rpm or so. It's going to have a nice performance sounding idle too and it will work with worn out stock springs and stock rockers.
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Posts: 370
From: Orlando, FL
That with a 3000 convertor with 3.42 posi and some 27-28" tall radials should put a car like his in the high 14's around 93-95 mph range.
He's going to have to get some headers if he wants his car to sound like the one in the video.
Last edited by SBORule; Nov 19, 2011 at 07:00 PM.
Chevy budget Olds powered
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,638
From: Elgin, Illinois
high 14's wouldnt make me happy. I had a no nothing 350 with stock 7a heads and stock 73 shortblock with a towing cam, 600cfm carb. eddy intake and headers and x pipe run 13.86. I ran a th400 with a 2000 stall and 3.42 gear with a 26 in.tall tire . I mention this combo alot but it ran amzingly well and it didn't have a rowdy idle or nothing. dont over cam an engine just to get sound my current engine has the 280h comp cams .I could go bigger but this cam actually worked really well for my set up .
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From: Elgin, Illinois
this is how it sounds . look at the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU3ZxJCTip8
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It'll run fine, the duration will help ward detonation. That motor combo he's putting together isn't going to be 350 horsepower 355, it's going to be more in the 275 HP range.
That with a 3000 convertor with 3.42 posi and some 27-28" tall radials should put a car like his in the high 14's around 93-95 mph range.
He's going to have to get some headers if he wants his car to sound like the one in the video.
That with a 3000 convertor with 3.42 posi and some 27-28" tall radials should put a car like his in the high 14's around 93-95 mph range.
He's going to have to get some headers if he wants his car to sound like the one in the video.
Hot 442, do whatever you like, but you are going to hate that combo, IMHO.
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Update
Okay fellas....went to the shop today and heres what I found out:
-crank balanced, Edelb 7111 intake, roller tip rockers (Comp or Crane cant recall), block squared, align honed and 2.07 / 1.70 Manley valves installed plus some bowl work with a 10:1 compression ratio. Add a Holley 770 cfm Street Avenger carb, MSD distributor / coil and Hooker headers to all that.
The cam is still a mystery as it wasnt around for me to see....
As for the trans...its ended up with a rebuild, including a shift kit and a 9" converter.
Pick all of it up next monday....
What you think?
-crank balanced, Edelb 7111 intake, roller tip rockers (Comp or Crane cant recall), block squared, align honed and 2.07 / 1.70 Manley valves installed plus some bowl work with a 10:1 compression ratio. Add a Holley 770 cfm Street Avenger carb, MSD distributor / coil and Hooker headers to all that.
The cam is still a mystery as it wasnt around for me to see....
As for the trans...its ended up with a rebuild, including a shift kit and a 9" converter.
Pick all of it up next monday....
What you think?
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 370
From: Orlando, FL
Dang, bigger valves and bowl work will help, so will a 10 to 1 compression.
Use some good break in oil with lot of zink, I think Comp Cams sells some.
Don't forget to keep the rpm's up around 2200-2500 for the first 5 to 10 minutes the engine runs to break in the cam.
Then start playing around with setting the idle.
Use some good break in oil with lot of zink, I think Comp Cams sells some.
Don't forget to keep the rpm's up around 2200-2500 for the first 5 to 10 minutes the engine runs to break in the cam.
Then start playing around with setting the idle.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 370
From: Orlando, FL
Could you name a few ?
I planned on using some Valvoline NOT STREET LEGAL Racing oil when I get my motor back together. I figure there will be enough additives in there for my rebuild, I'm reusing my old cam & lifters so I don't have to worry about breaking in a cam.
I also use Pro Long but only after I get about 750 miles on an engine.
I planned on using some Valvoline NOT STREET LEGAL Racing oil when I get my motor back together. I figure there will be enough additives in there for my rebuild, I'm reusing my old cam & lifters so I don't have to worry about breaking in a cam.
I also use Pro Long but only after I get about 750 miles on an engine.
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From: Orlando, FL
Tell us about your engine combo that has the 280H cam in it and what kind of numbers it runs @ the track.
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Okay fellas....went to the shop today and heres what I found out:
-crank balanced, Edelb 7111 intake, roller tip rockers (Comp or Crane cant recall), block squared, align honed and 2.07 / 1.70 Manley valves installed plus some bowl work with a 10:1 compression ratio. Add a Holley 770 cfm Street Avenger carb, MSD distributor / coil and Hooker headers to all that.
The cam is still a mystery as it wasnt around for me to see....
As for the trans...its ended up with a rebuild, including a shift kit and a 9" converter.
Pick all of it up next monday....
What you think?
-crank balanced, Edelb 7111 intake, roller tip rockers (Comp or Crane cant recall), block squared, align honed and 2.07 / 1.70 Manley valves installed plus some bowl work with a 10:1 compression ratio. Add a Holley 770 cfm Street Avenger carb, MSD distributor / coil and Hooker headers to all that.
The cam is still a mystery as it wasnt around for me to see....
As for the trans...its ended up with a rebuild, including a shift kit and a 9" converter.
Pick all of it up next monday....
What you think?
Be certain the cam is the proper one, it will make or break the build.
I see no need for a 9" converter, IMHO.
Chevy budget Olds powered
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,638
From: Elgin, Illinois
Sborule with the 280h it ran 13.33 best with a 600 cfm carb and stock suspension I plan on getting it in the 12's next year with a bigger carb suspension work and a ram air pan and curving the distributor
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Cam specs
Okay fellas I still dont have the engine back yet but I was able to secure the cam specs. I get the engine back next week sometime - were awaiting the Edelb intake and one backordered motor mount.....
The cam info is as follows:
.050 Timing
BTC 9 ABC 43 BBC 55 ATC -3
.050 Duration
Int 232 Exh 232
Lobe Ctrs
Int 107 Exh 119
Valve lift
Int 474 exh 474
Cam lift
Int 296 Exh 296
SAE timing
BTC 48 ABC 101 BBC 94 ATC 55
SAE Dur
Int 329 Exh 329
I only have what looks like these stats written on a label that was the end of the box the cam came in. No other identifying marks as to who is the manufacturer and the boss wasnt around to ask him at the shop.
Anyone know where this cam came from???
The cam info is as follows:
.050 Timing
BTC 9 ABC 43 BBC 55 ATC -3
.050 Duration
Int 232 Exh 232
Lobe Ctrs
Int 107 Exh 119
Valve lift
Int 474 exh 474
Cam lift
Int 296 Exh 296
SAE timing
BTC 48 ABC 101 BBC 94 ATC 55
SAE Dur
Int 329 Exh 329
I only have what looks like these stats written on a label that was the end of the box the cam came in. No other identifying marks as to who is the manufacturer and the boss wasnt around to ask him at the shop.
Anyone know where this cam came from???
Chevy budget Olds powered
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,638
From: Elgin, Illinois
I think it's a w31 or w30 reproduction cam a lot of companies make this cam lunati, comp, and a slew of off brand companies with out a part number or grind number its hard to tell who made it
Chevy budget Olds powered
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,638
From: Elgin, Illinois
It will sound good and run good if you have the right amount of compression. Atleast 9.5 to and higher is good. A good converter is a must. I'm running almost the same cam it's comp's modern reproduction of the w cams it sounds good and runs good .
Thread Starter
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Ah yes you're correct. I found some youtube vids with idle clips and in the comments stated that the cam had 308 duration.
The shop says I'll have 10:1 compression so lets hope theyre correct!
I hope to achieve a similar idle to that W31 cam....wow sounds amazing.
The shop says I'll have 10:1 compression so lets hope theyre correct!
I hope to achieve a similar idle to that W31 cam....wow sounds amazing.
Thread Starter
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I hear you.
I wish I would have got on top of the build before it went to the shop but I waited and educated myself too late I guess. I'll try out the cam first and if I'm not happy I'll swap it out. Don't worry cutlassefi, you'll be the first one I come to when Im buyin my next cam for it.
It's not hittin the track etc anyway, just a nice driver....I suspect this cam will be an improvement on the stocker anyway.
I wish I would have got on top of the build before it went to the shop but I waited and educated myself too late I guess. I'll try out the cam first and if I'm not happy I'll swap it out. Don't worry cutlassefi, you'll be the first one I come to when Im buyin my next cam for it.
It's not hittin the track etc anyway, just a nice driver....I suspect this cam will be an improvement on the stocker anyway.
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Finally
I finally got the engine back from the shop all finished and painted. Thot I'd post a few pics for your enjoyment....
Does anyone have the correct vacuum line routing for this engine? When taken apart it was more or less a hackjob from the prev owner.......
Does anyone have the correct vacuum line routing for this engine? When taken apart it was more or less a hackjob from the prev owner.......
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Anyone willing to take a couple shots of their power steering pump and how / where the brackets mount up?
I have the general idea where they mount but not sure where the bottom two bolts go and what they look like etc....one bracket goes to the D/S head where a stud sticks out and the other front bracket lines up with a water pump bolt up top and another bolt down below the water pump but it seems to put the pump way too close clearance wise to the block and the side bracket then doesnt line up with the stud thats there...
help?
I have the general idea where they mount but not sure where the bottom two bolts go and what they look like etc....one bracket goes to the D/S head where a stud sticks out and the other front bracket lines up with a water pump bolt up top and another bolt down below the water pump but it seems to put the pump way too close clearance wise to the block and the side bracket then doesnt line up with the stud thats there...
help?
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 21,183
From: The Hudson Valley
2Blu442 posted a very nice set of photos of how these brackets go together several months ago. I don't have the link in front of me, but if you search, you should be able to find it.
- Eric
- Eric
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Thanks Eric. Found that thread...sorry thats lazy I shouldve just searched.
Although the installation of the engine did not got well and is not complete yet, heres a few pics.
Everything went in the bay well, but not smoothly. The hooker headers were a PITA as you must somehow put them in pre-install and keep them off to one side or another as you lower the engine in....see but they get in the way of the oil filter and everything else...plus they keep falling etc.
The engine went 85% of the way in then the rubber trans mount got in the way. It wouldnt get up over the hump on the front of the X-member. The jack got involved but the trans couldnt get high enuf as it kept hitting the tunnel up top and then raising the car too.
The engine is resting on wood blocks currently as it is an inch away from the stands. My next move is to remove the x member and install the trans into the driveshaft then put the x member in afterwards.
What you think? Any advice??
Although the installation of the engine did not got well and is not complete yet, heres a few pics.
Everything went in the bay well, but not smoothly. The hooker headers were a PITA as you must somehow put them in pre-install and keep them off to one side or another as you lower the engine in....see but they get in the way of the oil filter and everything else...plus they keep falling etc.
The engine went 85% of the way in then the rubber trans mount got in the way. It wouldnt get up over the hump on the front of the X-member. The jack got involved but the trans couldnt get high enuf as it kept hitting the tunnel up top and then raising the car too.
The engine is resting on wood blocks currently as it is an inch away from the stands. My next move is to remove the x member and install the trans into the driveshaft then put the x member in afterwards.
What you think? Any advice??
Chevy budget Olds powered
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,638
From: Elgin, Illinois
The headers should go in afterwards from underneath. You have to jack the car up high enough to get them in. I usually have to slip the header on the driverside in tighten up the front bolt and let it hang then slip in the starter and the bolt it all up. also take the drive shaft out put that in last., it will slip forward enought to push it back into the rear end yoke.
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Engine's in place and bolted up. My success was based on unbolting the x-member for the tranny and sliding it rearward to allow the tranny to move rear freely. Ill slide it back and jack the trans to get the mount in the right spot later.
Anyone have any idea where I could tap into for a key on 12v power source for the electronic choke on the carb?
Although its nearby and tempting, I dont think you are supposed to interfere with the coil's power source 'cause I read it can cause issues....is there anywhere else someone direct me?
Merry Christmas all!
Anyone have any idea where I could tap into for a key on 12v power source for the electronic choke on the carb?
Although its nearby and tempting, I dont think you are supposed to interfere with the coil's power source 'cause I read it can cause issues....is there anywhere else someone direct me?
Merry Christmas all!
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Thats the way it was explained to me.
When the shop put the larger valves in they also did some work in the bowl area and cleaned it up a bit. The area has to be enlarged to accomodate the new valves.
As for the engine install, I had to unbolt the trans x- member and slide it rearward - out of the way. This allowed me to mate the driveshaft and trans then line up the stands with the mounts and slide the bolts thru to secure the engine.
Now I have to slide the x-member back and bolt up the trans mount to it.
Funny, thats exactly how the Olds Service manual tell you to do it....wish I would have read that before I found out the hard way!
When the shop put the larger valves in they also did some work in the bowl area and cleaned it up a bit. The area has to be enlarged to accomodate the new valves.
As for the engine install, I had to unbolt the trans x- member and slide it rearward - out of the way. This allowed me to mate the driveshaft and trans then line up the stands with the mounts and slide the bolts thru to secure the engine.
Now I have to slide the x-member back and bolt up the trans mount to it.
Funny, thats exactly how the Olds Service manual tell you to do it....wish I would have read that before I found out the hard way!
Last edited by Hot 442; Dec 29, 2011 at 09:12 PM. Reason: added text
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