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So I am in the middle of a drum to disc conversion on my 69 Cutlass, to do this I am swapping the spindles however to do that I fear that I might release the shock spring up front. What preparation can I make (short of buying a spring compressor) to avoid killing myself with this spring
If your not changing the springs and the engine is still in the car, you can support the car on the lower control arms. Leave the shock installed. The weight of the car will keep the spring in place. The upper control arm will still move up and down easily. If your reusing the ball joints don't use a pickle fork as you'll destroy the rubber boots.
Most auto parts stores these days will "loan" you tools. Basically you pay them the cost of the tool, use it and return it and get all of your money back.
I would definitely get a spring compressor for your own safety and piece of mind. It just makes sense.
If your not changing the springs and the engine is still in the car, you can support the car on the lower control arms. Leave the shock installed. The weight of the car will keep the spring in place. The upper control arm will still move up and down easily. If your reusing the ball joints don't use a pickle fork as you'll destroy the rubber boots.
Do I have to have the car supported on the lower control arm, what happened is that I jacked up the car and realized that the spring may be a problem after I already had the drum taken apart so I don't know if I could readjust the jacks
If you have not broken the ball joints loose, you can simply jack the car up using the front xmember. Once the car is high enough to remove the jacks from their current placement, simply place them under the front control arms and lower the car on to them.
I will put a jack stand under the hold in the frame for the body mount just behind the front tire. Then use the jack and the weight of the car to raise and lower the control arm. The shock as already mentioned will hold the spring in and keep the control arm travel limited. If you leave the sway bar link on it also is helpful to limit travel. A trick I think I saw on her that Joe P. pointed out I have used ever since I saw it. If you get the tool made for spreading the exhaust manifolds for a small block Chevy it works great to spread the ball joints apart without tearing the boots. When going back together just use the jack under the control arm and the weight and it will work well. As long as the car has the weight of the engine in it. Use new cotter pins when going back together. They are very cheap in a multi-size kit from various parts stores.
So long as the shock is still in place inside the spring, it is physically impossible for the spring to come out. Do support the front suspension under the control arms so the weight of the car compresses the spring, as noted above.
I have found that one can break free the taper fit on the BJ's w/o damage with a sideways blow.
Support the LCA with a jack for safety, just in case. Remove cotters, clean and lube the BJ threads. Remove both BJ nuts, one at a time. Or at least remove far enough to ensure they will come off by hand. The BJ nuts must be free to come off with minimal torque. Because, after you break the taper fit bond, the BJ spindle will want to just spin.
Put both nuts back on but not all the way, leave a turn or three undone.
With the spring pushing the CA's apart, but the shock, jack, and mostly-installed nuts preventing the assembly from coming apart, strike the spindle crossways, at 90 degrees to the BJ axis, where the BJ stud passes thru. Use a drift and a good size hammer, like 3 lbs. This should pop the taper fit apart and then the nut will come against the spindle.
Now jack up the LCA a little to take the force off the BJ's, allowing removal of the nuts and the spindle.
could I have some help on how to take off the spindle from the axle, How does one take off the ball joint. I took off the nut underneath the ball joint with the cotter pin in it but I don't think that did anything... could really use some help
could I have some help on how to take off the spindle from the axle, How does one take off the ball joint. I took off the nut underneath the ball joint with the cotter pin in it but I don't think that did anything... could really use some help
1) Buy, borrow, or rent a pickle fork
2) Insert pickle fork between rubber boot and spindle (after loosening nut on ball joint stud)
The problem with the pickle fork is it destroys the rubber boots. If you take the same hammer and whack the side of the spindle where the ball joint passes through a few times as hard as you can, releasing your grip slightly as the hammer makes contact with the metal the joint will release easily with no damage.
For retaining the spring the factory tool (BT-6505?) or equivalent is really slick. I found the Kent-Moore version. It hooks in the upper shock mount and has a forcing plate for the LCA.
Now that my front suspension is done I might throw it back on Ebay.
You can also use a manifold spreader and go between the studs of the ball joints with it to spread them apart. either way you need some more tools. I love that saying.
The problem with the pickle fork is it destroys the rubber boots. If you take the same hammer and whack the side of the spindle a few times releasing your grip slightly as the hammer makes contact the joint will release easily with no damage.
Right
Like post #8 says
Do we need a picture?
Oh, and put the nut back on please, remember that the spring is compressed.
As for the thru-spring tool, unless you are replacing shocks or springs, just leave the shock in place. Why make more work?
Use the car's weight vs your floor jack to hold the spring force and keep things under control after you use the spring and sideways blows to release the tapered fit.
I get the feeling the OP does not understand the taper fit part, and how it works, and why it is used.
I get the feeling the OP does not understand the taper fit part, and how it works, and why it is used.
Ya I'm pretty knowledgable on brakes as of now, I've never had to deal with before. With taking off the spindle, taking off the ball joint is the right way to go right? I tried taking off the bolts on the inside of the spindle but couldn't get a wrench to fit on the bottom one so I don't think that I'm doing this quite right.
I don't understand the "taking off the ball joint" statement. Your breaking loose the tapered joint only at the spindle. Watch the video, about midway. The whole spindle and brake assembly will come off as a unit, just disconnect the brake line. The only nuts that need to be loosened are the ones on the ball joints and tie rod ends.
The only nuts that need to be loosened are the ones on the ball joints and tie rod ends.
Ya I have all nuts loosened besides the bottom ball joint, I can't seem to fit wrench into that one as mentioned above. These nuts are the ones with the cotter pins in them correct? Took me a few hours to get the pins out so I hope so
Yes, the ones with the cotter pins. A boxed end wrench should go right in there. You may have to turn the spindle to the right or left to get one in there. First straighten the legs of the cotter pin. Grip the eyed portion of the cotter pin with a pair of dykes close to the nut. Then cantilever the dykes against the spindle arm and it will pull the cotter pin out.
First straighten the legs of the cotter pin. Grip the eyed portion of the cotter pin with a pair of dykes close to the nut. Then cantilever the dykes against the spindle arm and it will pull the cotter pin out.
I don't have a very good feeling about this at this point.
Hmmm, lets see where he lives? Indiana, no problem... All kidding aside, once he gets one side done, he'll realize how easy this really is. I remember my first time. I had the front end sitting on a set of big wood logs that I used as jack stands.
As much as I love Stacey's old shows ... the best use for a pickle fork is stuck in a jar of pickles. On most steering knuckles, right where the ball joint spindle goes through the knuckle .. you'll find a thicker spot. Loosen but do not remove the castle nut. Back it way off. Take a 3-5lbs BFH and (give yourself some room and be sure of your aim) whack that thick spot. One or two good shots, she'll pop free like you goosed your girlfriend. Tie rod ends do the same thing.
I beat a pickle fork to death trying to release a tie rod end on an '88 Mitsubishi Mirage. Literally. Destroyed the tool. Drove the car to a garage in disgust ... and the 100 lbs dripping wet old fart working their alignment bench popped it free with one friggin swing. Only thing hanging lower than that control arm was my jaw. No heat, no lube, no special tools .. a 3lbs ball peen hammer .. whack, clunk... pay the girl over there.
I can't say that I've ever had the problems you all seem to have with pickle forks. Also, if you are careful about inserting the fork between the spindle and the rubber boot, you don't destroy the boot, either.
Lately I have been using one of these, at least on the upper ball joints and tie rod ends (the tool I have won't fit the lowers).
I also picked up one of the Kent Moore screw-jack separators, but haven't used it yet.
Joe .. that first tool works very well if you can get it to fit. I like to use it if I can't get spring pressure on the joint .. honda's for example. Use that to put pressure on the stud, then tap the end of the tool right over the top of the stud. Works much nicer than trying to force it out with screw pressure alone.
If you buy a tool like that, don't go cheap. You'll just frustrate yourself when the threads shear off inside the tool. When you buy it, dismantle it, clean it well, then lube the threads with good high pressure grease. I keep mine in a zip lock bag when not in use.
Ok status report. I think I get why you all say this is easy now, but I have yet to have much luck separating these joints with a pickle fork or just a hammer. The pickle fork goes all the way in around the joint with a few hammer strikes but doesn't want to seperate still. I do have the fork in the right spot, I am sure about that.
Break the tie rod ends loose first, then the upper A arm and last the lower. Short of actually being able to do this for you, we have about reached the limits of help we can provide.
Break the tie rod ends loose first, then the upper A arm and last the lower. Short of actually being able to do this for you, we have about reached the limits of help we can provide.
So, the BJ nuts are loose, backed off but not removed, right?
Spring force on the LCA
Shock or your favorite tool in there to retain the LCA
As for getting the cotters out, down where there is no rust they do this:
"First straighten the legs of the cotter pin. Grip the eyed portion of the cotter pin with a pair of dykes close to the nut. Then cantilever the dykes against the spindle arm and it will pull the cotter pin out."
I found long long ago that here it is much faster to just unscrew the nut, shearing the cotter in the process. Pick the bits out later, or, if the BJ is being replaced, even that is not necessary. The trick is to get the box wrench or socket on over the cotter pin.
Kinda like for rear shock upper mtg bolts- do not even turn CCW, for all that gets you is a rusty loose spinning thing you cannot reach. Go CW and twiste 'em off. Done real fast, and you were buying new bolts anyhow.
"One of my friends suggested using a pry bar on the pickle fork"
This person does not understand the difference between a WEDGE and a PRY BAR. A wood splitter is a wedge. A pickle fork is a wedge. A drill chuck remover is a wedge. Prying a wedge mainly just deforms or ruins it. I made some very nice hardwood and aluminum wedges for previous job, to wedge the fan prop upward before tightening the mounts. Then, remove the wedges, and the prop falls down a little for centered operation. Usually. Dolt co-worker uses one for a pry bar instead, ruined it.
What do you call a "mallet"? Surely not a rubber mallet? Or plastic? This is a job for a Man Hammer.
So, the BJ nuts are loose, backed off but not removed, right?
Spring force on the LCA
Shock or your favorite tool in there to retain the LCA
As for getting the cotters out, down where there is no rust they do this:
"First straighten the legs of the cotter pin. Grip the eyed portion of the cotter pin with a pair of dykes close to the nut. Then cantilever the dykes against the spindle arm and it will pull the cotter pin out."
I found long long ago that here it is much faster to just unscrew the nut, shearing the cotter in the process. Pick the bits out later, or, if the BJ is being replaced, even that is not necessary. The trick is to get the box wrench or socket on over the cotter pin.
Kinda like for rear shock upper mtg bolts- do not even turn CCW, for all that gets you is a rusty loose spinning thing you cannot reach. Go CW and twiste 'em off. Done real fast, and you were buying new bolts anyhow.
"One of my friends suggested using a pry bar on the pickle fork"
This person does not understand the difference between a WEDGE and a PRY BAR. A wood splitter is a wedge. A pickle fork is a wedge. A drill chuck remover is a wedge. Prying a wedge mainly just deforms or ruins it.
Ya I have the cotters out already I'm just having trouble with breaking the taper on the ball joints now
March 19th, 2016, 05:20 PM
All kidding aside, once he gets one side done, he'll realize how easy this really is. I remember my first time. I had the front end sitting on a set of big wood logs that I used as jack stands.
