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One thing I learned at the track with my 88 Cutlass, it was embarrassingly slow! The first ticket is a 8 to 1 403 with a 204/214 cam, Sandersoqq shorty headers with 2.5" exhaust, 2400 flash stall, 2.56 gears and BFG Radial T/A's 245/60R14 tires. It ended up a 9.6 to 1 Olds 350 with the same cam, 1.72 to 1 roller rockers, custom tuned Everyday Performance Qjet, 2350 stall with a 3.42 open rear. I broke the pins off the no slip and then exploded the spiders gears. Meaning I had to rebuild the 7.5" twice. The stock spider gears are soft, the Yukon hardened replacements showed no wear after multiple track runs. No matter the pressure the BFG's spun like they were on ice. I eventually upgraded to M/T ET Street 26× 10.5-15 tires. Guy was supposed to get me drag radials, I went with them. I had the pressure too high, our track needed 8/9 psi to hook, according to another racer there. It definitely helped. I went from over 11 seconds in the 1/8 to a 9.405 in the 1/8. I imploded a converter and blew up the 7.5" rear twice. I also saw a new Camaro run a 10's to in the 1/8 mile! The track is the great equalizer. My runs were usually the right lane FYI, just liked it. My 70 never made it right after the custom cam installed, my daughter took it out of town without telling me and the Hughes pan was leaking and bye bye 2004R, literally the day before the track. I never made it the next year due to leaking issues of a different trans. These old transmissions can be hard to completely seal. The track closed so my 70S never made it. Even though it felt faster than my 88, it may have been slower. The 2.78 gearing is a big handicap but the car is definitely lighter. I weighed my 88 Cutlass at 3750 pounds without me in it. I will weigh the 70S on the same certified truck scale in spring, betting it is at least 200 pounds lighter. I see an axle seal is leaking. If I pull an axle, it will turn into a 3.90 posi swap into the 8.5" Type O😁. What feels faster on the street is quite often slower at the track, learned that from testing. Also any weak points, the track finds in a hurry. Not just breaking parts, substandard fuel and ignition systems as well. Please everyone post their time slips and their experience at the track. These were in the glove box of my 88, it is stripped down and waiting to be towed away. Time to focus on just one car, my 70 Cutlass S.
65 F85,.30 over 455,torker w/800 holley,m20 with 3.91s.weighs 3600 with me in it.i fell my 60 ft needs to better and can if i get my car to launch better.never got to track last year
Most of my racing was on the street. Somewhere I do have a time slip for my 70 SX. 455 4 barrel. 2.56 rear. 15.27 at altitude of 5300+ feet. That is easy a 14.27 at sea level. 2.56 rear. I barely hit third gear.
Most of my racing was on the street. Somewhere I do have a time slip for my 70 SX. 455 4 barrel. 2.56 rear. 15.27 at altitude of 5300+ feet. That is easy a 14.27 at sea level. 2.56 rear. I barely hit third gear.
NHRA correction factor for 4800 altitude. .9520 15.27 x .9520 =14.57 25.00 Barometer
NHRA correction factor for 5800 altitude .9405. 15.27 x .9405 = 14.36. 24.20 Barometer
Now if your talking 2130 feet altitude track and a 28.00 barometer with a DA of 5300 feet, you would much closer to the 15.27.
Last edited by VORTECPRO; Jan 16, 2021 at 06:06 AM.
Nice, these last two are exactly my plan, something that can cruise for hours down the highway without constantly watching gauges and barely making the next gas station. They can easily be an hour apart here, sometimes much further. Both of these last two cars, one with a 3.90 and a 2004R, the other with 2.56 gears can do hours on the highway and run good times at the track. Curious, what compression, cam and converter are in the SX? By all means, discuss as much as you want about the total combo and why you built it the way you did.
NHRA correction factor for 4800 altitude. .9520 15.27 x .9520 =14.57 25.00 Barometer
NHRA correction factor for 5800 altitude .9405. 15.27 x .9405 = 14.36. 24.20 Barometer
Now if your talking 2130 feet altitude track and a 28.00 barometer with a DA of 5300 feet, you would much closer to the 15.27.
Honestly I know a 15.2 sounds slow and lame but up here in Denver with a 2.56 rear I was very happy with my time slip. Completely stock. Well except for the four barrel that I put on.
Honestly I know a 15.2 sounds slow and lame but up here in Denver with a 2.56 rear I was very happy with my time slip. Completely stock. Well except for the four barrel that I put on.
Not at all, a 15.2 is a great run in Denver! And a 2,56 gear makes for a great driver. Your not going to see many if any bone stock old school muscle cars running 15s in Denver.
Honestly I know a 15.2 sounds slow and lame but up here in Denver with a 2.56 rear I was very happy with my time slip. Completely stock. Well except for the four barrel that I put on.
Curious, street tires or slicks? What was your 60 ft? I know the stock TH350 regular converters flash around 1600 rpm, very lame. Better than the stock 4L60E truck converters, maybe 1500 rpm but it is a truck after all. Curious what your car is stalling at, probably similar? It just shows the torque a stock 455 makes down low, enough to have many black snakes chasing you from the stop signs😉.
Thank you Vortecpro. She's a heavy weight but its runs pretty consistent. I'm pretty sure I can dip into the 11's. Built it to drive anywhere. Been on 200 mile toadtrips getting 17 m.p.g without a worry.
Left lane...P204. Not near Chad’s monster but not bad. Best ET to date.
I think with my new trans, no GV OD and a better converter...I should hit 10.60
Left lane...P204. Not near Chad’s monster but not bad. Best ET to date.
I think with my new trans, no GV OD and a better converter...I should hit 10.60
Nice, these last two are exactly my plan, something that can cruise for hours down the highway without constantly watching gauges and barely making the next gas station. They can easily be an hour apart here, sometimes much further. Both of these last two cars, one with a 3.90 and a 2004R, the other with 2.56 gears can do hours on the highway and run good times at the track.
Don't do the 2.56 rearend. Both of my cars (70 Supreme and 71 vert, 350-4bbl) came from the factory with 2.56 gears, and while they cruised the highway nicely, they sucked for everything performance related. The 70 Supreme beat up on a lot of cars in the 80s stoplight racing, but then again late 70s-early 80s cars were really, really bad.
Do the TH200-4R and 3.90s - you know that's what you really want.
Don't do the 2.56 rearend. Both of my cars (70 Supreme and 71 vert, 350-4bbl) came from the factory with 2.56 gears, and while they cruised the highway nicely, they sucked for everything performance related. The 70 Supreme beat up on a lot of cars in the 80s stoplight racing, but then again late 70s-early 80s cars were really, really bad.
Do the TH200-4R and 3.90s - you know that's what you really want.
I already have two 2004R trans. One I will slightly modify for this temporary motor, the other needs $1000+ in parts alone to live behind more power. I have a 2350 stall, good enough for the temporary 350, adding CK's .555" boost valves, TCI lock up kit and the 5000 rpm governor I modify, current one is 3000 rpm! I have the $1000 needed for the 3.90 gears, seals, bearings and posi for the Type O, just need the time and warm, dry weather. My shop isn't wide enough to pull axles all the way out. The 2.56 gears are only good for a 3 spd auto cruising down the highway.
IMO a 2.56 gear can be a lot of fun on the street, but you have to have the power to pull it. I know you can have a 11 sec pump gas big block car with these gears and a hard charging 50 MPH roll on. You will go through in second gear at the track though.
IMO a 2.56 gear can be a lot of fun on the street, but you have to have the power to pull it. I know you can have a 11 sec pump gas big block car with these gears and a hard charging 50 MPH roll on. You will go through in second gear at the track though.
What stall converter would a Big Block car run with 2.56 gears?
Back to back. Best to date with the little pump gas 350 with the ported iron heads. I'm car 340. I got time slips from all my little SBO combos and it's been nice to compare where I have been to where I am now. The current goal is to try to knock out 150 lbs part of that will be me lol. The covid lockdown bs hasn't been good for my gut lol. I may do a 4.33 but if I can scrape 11.5x from this set up that's beyond what I want to do. I need to slow the car down for a 12.0 index class I wanna run.
Last edited by coppercutlass; Jan 16, 2021 at 10:08 PM.
What stall converter would a Big Block car run with 2.56 gears?
I'd run a particular Coan 10 inch, TQ multiplication when combined with a 2.56 gear is incredible, but again you have to have the power to pull it. I've had a few customers try it and they were surprised how good it worked, the problem is you can't buy these gears new. I would rather have a strait cut Turbo 400 and a 2.56 gear over a OD trans, just my preference. A 3.08 gear is 10 sec territory but not that great for hiway driving.
Back to back. Best to date with the little pump gas 350 with the ported iron heads. I'm car 340. I got time slips from all my little SBO combos and it's been nice to compare where I have been to where I am now. The current goal is to try to knock out 150 lbs part of that will be me lol. The covid lockdown bs hasn't been good for my gut lol. I may do a 4.33 but if I can scrape 11.5x from this set up that's beyond what I want to do. I need to slow the car down for a 12.0 index class I wanna run.
Love your car, done with a pretty low buck approach. Plus, since you are a painter by profession, it looks great too.
Thank you. Although I do paint from time to time. I handed duties with the spray gun to a really good friend of mine. He owed me a favor since I built his 350 sbc. I did all the body work blocking an all the metal work., he was the trigger man. I however painted the trunk and hood. That was not his taste and he wanted no involvement lol. My bread and butter in the shop is metal work , frame work and mechanical. I'm too slow of a painter to make any money in a shop lol.
Everyone knows good metal work is a skill not everyone can do. Your painting on the trunk makes your car stand out. I need to get a good air brush and let my Daughter loose on my 70S, she is an art student and very good.
I did not save mine. Most of them are high 14 to mid 15 second slips.
I can tell you what the first time at a track ,taking MY g body SS to the track and getting a slip in the high 15's. was like a kick to the gut.
As that run told me all my other cars that I thought were quick, were not. But as they say ignorance is bliss, I would have never been happy with the other vehicles had I known just how bad/slow they were in reality. I right then understood why those that had been driving in the muscle car years or had a warmed up, car did not see them as fast.
Something to be said about not knowing , The time slip changed that, (sad face).
I'll bet the chassis dyno, broke a bunch of ego's also.
The odd part is the "fast" (read slow) cars I had felt fast. The 2018 Camaro that did go high 12's with me not being great at driving on a track. didn't feel fast, it was TOO smooth, TOO refined . The older crap I had felt fast, the leaving the line, the shifts, it "felt" fast. but was not. the new stuff is fast but does not "feel" like it. It is like the bull in the China shop was taken out of the drive. Killing much of the Character of the "muscle" car.
My 402 caprice ran about the same times as my buddies 2018 Camaro that he let me drive While at the track.
The big block was a bull in a china shop, getting that high 12 second pass. the Camaro, wine and cheese.
Last edited by Grayghost; Jan 21, 2021 at 03:45 AM.
Yeah, I was in the same boat, my 88 is so fast, it wasn't! Same reason why the next time I go, 3.90's will be in my 70, gearing overcomes a lot. Look at the heavy wagon running 14's with a 307.
Then once you "go" fast it's never fast lol. I took a friend for a ride once and did a full pull hitting 7k rpm in 3rd which is well past the 1/4 mile. He was scared shitless lol. I was like what this thing is slow that may have been 111 mph tops lol. I never know what to expect anymore at the track. I test on empty roads but can't gauge it anymore
Remember the "first, scary" ride when I put the engine in the car. The first time I gave it the coals, I thought it was a rocket. Then the more times I drove it, about 10k miles later. Not so fast. Get caught in the trap (ALL you guys know) THE QUEST TO GO FASTER!!!! 💰💰
Then once you "go" fast it's never fast lol. I took a friend for a ride once and did a full pull hitting 7k rpm in 3rd which is well past the 1/4 mile. He was scared shitless lol. I was like what this thing is slow that may have been 111 mph tops lol. I never know what to expect anymore at the track. I test on empty roads but can't gauge it anymore
Absolutely, my 88 would run great, for what it was on the street, never a hiccup the day before. At the track, the fuel pump starting starving it out of the blue, ignition starting breaking up another time and if the cooling fan relay was going to die, guess where? At the track! It was a great learning experience if nothing else. I do miss it but plan to come back with a much better ride. Pretty sure if Estevan is back up and running, my Wife can follow me up with the Challenger and boat and we can go Bass fishing after racing😉.Oh and the night after my best run ever, I caught this.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; Jan 21, 2021 at 07:32 AM.
That's not a bad deal . My wife enjoys the racing weekends we camp out at the track. I made a bunk style bed in the back of my suburban so we sleep in the back and tools go underneath the bed.
Mild small block (approx 400hp), 5 speed manual, 3.90's, street tires and suspension. I can't launch it very well, but at least I'm consistently mediocre!
Mild small block (approx 400hp), 5 speed manual, 3.90's, street tires and suspension. I can't launch it very well, but at least I'm consistently mediocre!
