What is the impact of running 5 vs 6 is 7, etc.. qts of oil on oil temperature assuming that the pan's not filled past the designed fill point? Does it actually end up running at a lower max temp or just take longer getting there?

 

If you don't have an oil cooler, eventually you will get to the same oil temperature, just take longer.

jerry

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is actually a bad thing, not a good thing. Engines operate most efficiently and with the least wear when they are at operating temperature. Operating at less than normal operating temperature leads to poorer combustion and increased wear of parts.

I'm curious. How can you arbitrarily select how much oil to put in the crankcase? Are you considering different-sized oil pans?

 

Poorer combustion is a really big stretch, and not reality. However oil temp does need to get above the boiling point of water to get the water out of the oil. Condensation happens and it needs to get hot enough to evaporate. A great example, that I’ve never showed, is our Dyno engine. There are times we take it apart and you’d swear it has a leaking head gasket. It doesn’t. Just condensation and we never run it long enough or hot enough to turn it into vapor.

jerry

 

I bought a deep Milodon oil pan for my 455 because it was shiny.

 

And you know this how?

I'll drive my cars my way. You drive yours your way.

 

Here is a funny story about oil volume. I support some land speed racers (Bonneville and El Mirage). A friend that ran nostalgia top fuel dragster wanted to de-tune his top fuel engine and run at Bonneville in a Honda 600 with about 10 feet added to the front. He made his first pass and pulled off before the timed mile even started. He was losing oil pressure. He used a wet sump. We added a quart in and he got into the timed mile but didn't finish. We ended up adding 4 more quarts so he could run WOT through 2 timed miles. That's how slowly a big block Chevy oil returned to the pan. He put a dry sump in it for the next year. Oil volume matters in that situation.

jerry

 

If daily driving is the priority, what you said is not wrong. For high performance / racing applications, the more oil the better because:
1) Dilutes contaminants
2) Runs cooler / Overheated oil looses lubricating properties
3) Can lose more oil volume before starving pickup

There's probably others I haven't thought about.........

I figure you can't go wrong with a Canton pan and matching pickup.

 

What qualifies me to make that statement? Two engineering degress from the University of Michigan one focusing in fluid flow (meaning air flow and what not). Another degree focused in thermodynamics as it relates to automotive internal combustion engines. 20 years working at an OEM (GM and Ford) and Roush Racing all in powertrain development. I can 100% assure you that irrespective of oil temp some statement about oil temp leading to poor combustion is false, period. What matters to combustion quality, amoung other things, is chamber design, a homogenous mixture and metal temp of the chamber.

jerry

 

Sounds like great experience Jerry. Love it. I worked for General Motors (Delphi) for awhile and was able to do lots of fun things like you mentioned in the engine dyno test labs and vehicle dyno labs. Fun stuff! Loved those jobs and learned a ton!

I run my Chevelle BBC and 442 engines as close to 160* throughout my summer fun as possible.

 

While I'm not sure if I will do it or not; I do have an AVL "take apart" spark plug (just one) that will give me combustion pressure. I have an Innovators West balancer with 4 magnets built in. I have thought about getting cylinder pressure on an individual cylinder basis, correlated to crank position (hence the magnets in the balancer) while I'm in the dyno. If I do this though, what do we learn? It's cool, that's for sure. But looking for knock limitations, combustion stability (typically for overlap, EGR, etc) and even peak pressure, what does it gain this exercise? I can certainly preciesly find MBT for each cylinder, but what does this do for the average person out there? Probably not much. Maybe when it's all done I'll fiddle with it, not sure.

jerry

 

Ok, so no benefit strictly from an oil temperature standpoint to run a pan with more capacity on a street car.

I'm curious on what the impact is for a race engine (drag race or other) in running 4, 5, 6, etc qts, how long it takes for the oil to get to max temp, and what that max temp is between runs.

 

Race engine is kind of easy. First someone mentioned the same contaminates in more oil keeps the oil “fresher”.

mainly volume. Read my story about Bonneville and Rick’s CompCoupe.

The hotter the oil the less friction the engine will have. For bracket racing more oil will keep the oil temp from rising too fast if you start going rounds.

there is likely more, but this are the big ones.

jerry

 

I thought it was one engineering degree and one math degree?

 

so if the oil keeps increasing in temp, the friction keeps reducing?

that means they’re inversely proportional..which also means the friction will eventually be zero at elevated temps.

 

this is why I love this place..the tech advice

I just found out I need to boil my engine to reduce the friction

 

Dale-

You are one of the most knowledgeable people on this site, yet you choose to be a ***** 90% of the time

You might consider helping, sharing and passing on some of your knowledge 90% of the time and only be a douchebag 10% of the time, instead of the other way around.

Just a thought from an insignificant member of the peanut gallery.

​​​​​​….

 

Per the forum rules, there shall be no trolling.

 

As far as friction goes. As you warm up most fluids such as oil the viscosity drops. The drop in viscosity drops the amount of friction. Another way of calling Viscosity is "Fluid Friction". The less viscosity the less friction. This is the main reason modern engines have moved to 0 (zero) weight oils such as 0-20. It improves efficiency in the engine by reducing parasitic loss from friction.

 

do you agree with him saying “the hotter the oil the less friction the engine will have” ? that’s his words

im not being a ***** or a douchebag ..him saying that about oil temp is a ridiculous statement because it’s actually a lie..most oil begins to break down over 230 degrees and most lose all their lubricating qualities at 250

ldeal temp is between 200 and 215.

 

 

Hmm, boiling temperature is 212F, so you corroborated your own post that you need to boil your engine to reduce friction.

 

We are talking about engine oil temps cupcake..Dino oils start boiling at 250F

 

 

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