It looks to be more direct at the exhaust valve and away from the edge of the combustion chamber.

 

Its just moved toward the center of the chamber more.

 

So Bill used a Rick Roberts & Team designed combustion chamber on his blank castings, thanks for the clarification.

 

I have no idea, I just know what they told me about the heads.

 

Its obvious after you pointed it out.

 

No, Bill couldn’t deviate too much from the chamber design of the casting he was using.
For the last time, this is an all new casting with material and walls moved and added vs the previous casting.
Everything you and Velcro are stating in these last few posts is purely speculation, not fact. Stop muddying the water.
Velcro, as you know Rick is long gone. But an FYI, he was part of the discrepancies of the prior flow numbers etc. He knew it but didn’t do anything about it. I know as I spoke to him about it a few years ago at the PRI. And this chamber has continued evolution even since his departure.

 

The chamber looks good, I just wonder why you lowered the port floor?

 

It's disingenuous to imply that Mark was responsible for every detail of the head design. He stated initially that he was the catalyst, promoting ideas to benefit the Olds community.

If you have worked for a large corporation, you know how difficult is is for an outsider to promote specific details that eventually emerge from any major change. There are too many internal voices that hold sway in these decisions. As an outsider you need to be satisfied being the Godfather of the initial concepts.

I don't think Mark would have advocated for reducing the short turn radius any more than you would have. It would obviously be counter-productive.

 

Thank you, well said.
Velcro, you don’t know if the port floor was raised or lowered cuz you don’t have a head there to compare. So quit stating it was, again pure speculation.

 

I agree, I really don't think Mark was twisting Matt's arm @ the PRI show to lower the port floor.

 

So it only took you 4 posts to say what I said all along. Wow.
Bottom line, if you don’t like what was done then don’t buy it. Move on dude.

 

AMC loves the short turn laid back. Why wouldn't a Olds like the same thing. Testing will show if it hurt velocity or helped low lift numbers.

 

Give it a rest.

 

Velcro reaching at straws! LOL

 

How would a short abrupt short turn help low lift flow?

 

First off I'm not trying to muddy the waters!
Bills reworked head has a similar combustion chamber to the new head, I never said exact. It was an honest question as to why they did not raise the floor.
None of the questions or dialogue takes away from your involvement nor the improvements to the new design.
I have already forwarded this thread to non classic olds members that are in the market for a performance aluminum head, and it was well received.

 

Hows that car coming old timer..........

 

It's not you that's getting on folks nerves.

Raising the floor limits compatibility with intakes. And it's only particularly useful if you also raise the roof in order to raise the entire port. Just raising the floor makes the port smaller, which probably isn't useful. Again, raising the entire port requires intake modifications, if not an entire custom intake.

 

Batten, Rocket Racing, Wise, Bulldog, etc., etc.

All require custom intakes for a reason. The stock port configuration limits flow potential.

Edelbrock used to make the Batten intakes for small block Olds deck height engines, so there is nothing saying they couldn’t do that again to match a higher performance head package. Not like they have to make it a one size fits all.... I guess that is the goal with most of the Olds stuff though.

Also, it is not like they don’t cast different intakes to match all the different Olds small block and Big block port shapes and sizes.... and it isn’t like they don’t make a bunch of different intakes even for Olds engines already.


If there were at least two levels of heads for Olds engines, a mild upgrade and a race version, you could really see an aftermarket head that would bolt on and be capable of 600+ hp out of the box. In this new configuration, it won’t get there without a lot of additional work and money.

If I pay $2300 for a new set of heads, I sure wouldn’t be willing to spend another $2,000 to make them do what I want for flow and power.

I mentioned this the other day.... it doesn’t cost much more to have a head that has already been developed with lots of welding, raising the roof, and filling of the port floor, and the power has been proven to make a casting off the improved version, especially with stereo lithography. Take that well-developed head and do a 3D model trace of it and then make the new casting starting at that point, ensuring proper thickness everywhere for stability and strength.

 

Quick FYI here: These heads ( 455 heads 61025, 61029) are not going to be available until at least May, despite Summit and Jegs showing them shipping out in the next couple of weeks. I have contacted Edelbrock twice, last week and today. Today they told me that they are not even starting production of the heads until mid May. They told me mid April last week.

Of course, Jegs was more than happy to take my money last Monday and showed the heads shipping direct from the manufacturer this Friday, January 15th.

If anyone has any other info on this please post it up. I was hoping to get a set for a 455 I am working on now, but I want this car on the road in the spring.

Pat

 

All good points, but the Olds market (us guys) have proven that we have big mouths and small wallets. It's such a mess that I go out of my way to buy stuff from the guys making things in their garage so folks stay involved, but that takes money away from a big manufacturer bringing an Olds part to market.
e.g., if everyone that bought the Procomp heads had bought Edelbrock, then maybe the numbers would have been high enough for Edelbrock to make more race oriented stuff. But, as we've all said on here, the Procomp is good enough, so why bother? And the guys doing race stuff are already prepared to pay for everything custom anyway, so........
It's a nice catch-22.

 

And now you're talking all new intakes to go along with that. Again how many are they going to sell? Ask John at Rocket how many sets he sells, I'll bet not many.
Oddball - you make a valid point but didn't finish it. IF the Procomp head is indeed adequate then these heads should be that much better. They certainly fill a broader range of applications without question.
I get that everyone wants the top of the line. But how many are going to buy it? If history is correct, not many. It'll die and then they'll be less willing to do ANYTHING in the future. Look what happened to the BB Dominator Victor, no sales, gone. Be happy with what you have. A really decent head based on the 55+ year old pattern. And the same head can be brought to another level for the guy that wants to go there as well, with a quality casting.
I see this as a win-win.

 

I think the horse is dead here. Beating the dead horse isn't bringing it back to life.

Mark helped in producing a new head design for our Olds engines using his expertise. Where do you draw the line on how far you make a performance head? Go to far, cost is too much. The weekend warrior in his garage may not be able to afford the heads and will search out a cheaper aluminum head.

Any head can be ported and modified for better performance. Now we have a better head, your choice to bolt on or port. And if isn't enough performance, then move on to higher performing heads.

Will these heads be suffice for my DX build? All depends what my expectations are for power. That will be a discussion with my engine builder.

 

x2

 

What are these heads using for rocker arms/ studs, Sorry, this will be my first olds engine, But I wonder if they will be using the design olds used with the semi circle and bridge set up.

 

Refer to picture in post 28. There are studs designed to mount your choice of rocker arms.

 

Vortecpro, I will be interested to see what can happen with your improvements to these heads once you get some for one of the many upcoming Oldsmobile builds that are filling up your que lately.

 

The reason the reliable and easy to use stock set up isn't used is valve lift and spring pressure. The stock set up can't handle much past .500" lift and would no doubt fail under roller cam spring tension as well. Edelbrock upgraded to adjustable 7/16" stud rocker arms and guide plates, which are much stronger than the factory 5/16" bolt set up.

 

As said, the heads come with 7/16" studs and guide plates for 3/8" pushrods. There are various rockers available from Harland Sharp, Scorpion, and others.

 

What does that mean exactly. other oldsmobile rockers. or found everywhere chevy s/b rockers.

 

Your choice of rocker arms with the correct geometry. Chevys are different than Olds, Ford and others.

 

Gray, I didn't mean to be opaque. The stud is 7/16, so factory Olds rockers will not fit. As Mark said, use only rockers that fit Oldsmobile.
Ability to attain proper geometry is an import factor in choosing roller rockers. You are best to call a vendor like Mark, discuss your build, and get a recommendation. I used Harland Sharp roller rockers on my Edelbrocks.
Gary

 

Oh, I understand the need for correct geometry. I just didn't know if when designing these if they moved to Something other than normal olds aftermarket part. Many heads outside the olds engine families require special rockers. Did not know if that was the case here.
That is why I stated first olds. Most of the mopars I have done were shaft

 

It is best to use the Harland Sharp rockers designed for these heads. Most of the cheaper Olds replacement rockers are actually Ford Windsor rocker arms. They work but the geometry is slightly off and have issues at higher lift.

 

So I was on FB today, Bernard Mondello's page and he said the BB heads will be ready 05-07-21, with the small block heads after that, Mark do you have a ruff idea when the small block heads will be for sale?
Part #
61035 hydraulic roller and 61039 flat tappet.

Thanks.

 

Summit Racing posted that date a month ago, so this is a good confirmation.

 

Conversely the guy I worked with on this is telling me June.
No date on the small block head so anything there would be even further speculation.

 

This sounds D.O.A.

 

Nah, just reality on small batch manufacturing, especially in the Covid times.

 

There is a press release today and a thread started about Edelbrock closing the headquarters. I wonder how that will affect the new oldsmobile head release. Mark, have you heard?