single stage paint

Old August 27th, 2009, 09:08 AM
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Lookin' good. I hope I might be able to do the same in the future. Keep us posted on your project.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 09:38 AM
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You might want to research this thread at a Mopar site.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...=0#Post2655425

This is probably the longest discussion which started as a $50 paint job and evolved from there. I am seriously considering doing this on a 58 chevy biscayne.

The above link is the old link. Newest posts have been moved here:
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...=0#Post3493382

Last edited by msco123; August 27th, 2009 at 09:41 AM.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by msco123 View Post
You might want to research this thread at a Mopar site.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...=0#Post2655425

This is probably the longest discussion which started as a $50 paint job and evolved from there. I am seriously considering doing this on a 58 chevy biscayne.

The above link is the old link. Newest posts have been moved here:
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...=0#Post3493382
This rolling and brushing on Rust-O-Leum paint job deal has been discussed on every car site around ever since Algore invented the internet.

Seen some nice paint jobs...for lawn tractors.

Your car.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 05:58 AM
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Agree... the RustOLeum option is not such a hot idea - unless you're painting a "beater". For what you'll spend in time and energy sanding between every coat, you can buy an inexpesive gun, a gallon of paint, and spray it - assuming you have a half decent compressor. Get an HVLP gun.

Regardless of which paint you choose, you can get decent results if you prep properly and understand the settings on your gun and how they affect the paint flow - practice, practice, practice on some scrap metal until you're comfortable with the flow-out. I think SS is fine - and gives more of a factory appearance. If your gun is set correctly and you follow proper painting technique, you don't need to worry about runs and sags. Even a cheap gun can give good results of you set it up properly.

Don't be intimidated by metallics - even in SS. Shake the paint and stir, stir, stir for each batch you mix up to fill your gun. Cross-coating on alternate coats can help to reduce metallic mottling - and give the car a good misting over on the final coat.

You can paint in your garage and get decent results. Clean up as much as you can (I use a leaf blower the day before I'm going to paint so any remaining dust has time to settle back down). Buy a roll of painters plastic and cover the walls. Wet the floor before you paint - just damp enough to keep the dust down - not so wet that you'll splash when you walk around the car. Make sure you wipe the car down after you hose the floor to make sure no water splashed on the car.

Use a decent respirator and you won't inhale anything worse than the junk we're all breathing every day anyway . The HVLP gun is really prettty clean to work with. And watch the weather - be patient and wait for a day when the temperature and humidity are favorable. Always spray a bit on some scrap before you hit the car to insure your gun is working well in the current conditions.

You can do it! And have the satisfaction of having done it yourself!
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Old August 29th, 2009, 07:51 AM
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Use a decent respirator and you won't inhale anything worse than the junk we're all breathing every day anyway .
This is the most daunting part of painting a car with an HVLP gun for me. What type of respirator is needed? Do you have to use a full face mask with a fresh air hose running to it or would something like this work?

http://www.aosafety.com/diy/resp_det..._platform_id=1

I bought one of these for sanding and spraying things like Scotchguard and rust dissolver. It works pretty good; however, I have no idea if it would work with automotive paint.

The website says it will work with organic vapors (whatever the hell those are) and spray associated with paint. Does that just mean rattle can paint?
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Old August 29th, 2009, 09:10 AM
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painting

Just to chime in on this topic, I have painted cars with acrylic laquer, Imron (epoxy), and single stage acrylic enamels, using both home rigs and professional booths. The local Vo-Tech School used to hold evening classes for auto body, and it was worth the cost just to use their high end spray booth. Through the years the results differed, but all were within the range of acceptable to very good. Better equipment = better results, as mentioned. Also, can't emphasize enough that it is the prep work under the paint that really affects the final appearance. All that time spent removing dings, priming, block sanding, more priming and more block sanding, etc, really pays off in the final appearance. The prep work was WORK. Shooting the color was fun.

Unfortunately, I hung up my gun before BC/CC came along, but I hear from all my painter friends that it is the way to go if you want shine. As pointed out, often a BC/CC finish is too shiny to appear original on the 60's cars, and I agree that if original appearance is important, the high gloss of clear coats is usually too shiny. Each to their own preference though.

As far as application technique, there is no substitute for experience. My 7th or 8th car definitely turned out better than my first or second. If you have a lot of doubts in your ability, and you do not want to have to start over, you may want to turn to a professional.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 09:23 AM
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"What type of respirator is needed? Do you have to use a full face mask with a fresh air hose running to it or would something like this work?

http://www.aosafety.com/diy/resp_det..._platform_id=1"

Yes, that's what I use. They run about $30 at Lowe's or HD.

I find it works extremely well. I don't even smell any fumes - and an HVLP gun doesn't throw a lot of paint in the air. It really is effective at putting the paint on the car. The first time I painted I thought my garage would be a fog of paint and I'd be stumbling for the door. But it really is very clean.

Not to sound gross, but using the respirator, I've never had any "paint boogers" afterwards. My nose is perfectly clear. So, I think it's definitely adequate if you're just a "hobbyist" painter. Just be sure it's snug and the seals and filters are properly in place.

Oh yeah... and hold your breath while you paint!!!!
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Old August 29th, 2009, 11:21 AM
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The local Vo-Tech School used to hold evening classes for auto body
The local Vo-Tech in Lawton also teaches an auto body class. Unofrtunately, it is hard for me to take night classes since I sometimes travel for my job.
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Old September 1st, 2009, 03:35 PM
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My 57 Olds has single stage acrylic enamel paint and I like it that way (smooth and mellow). It looks very pastel rich with a deep wax-like sheen, and without all the shine of a BC/CC. Single stage paint is IMHO a great paint for an older 50's car, unless you plan to customize. Also, after shooting and drying this single stage paint, a color sand and buff process is recommended by the paint shops I've recently visited. This is done to smooth and remove any orange peel effect. After the S&B, a glaze is applied to the paint to bring out the sheen. My local paint shop also recommends that if this process is done, not to wax the car, but polish it no more than once a year with a non-abrasive polish, like Meguire's No.7. And the most important thing is to always keep your car clean and don't allow water droplets to remain on the paint. It's important to note that a S&B will remove a small portion of the paint, so if the paint job is uneven or shallow, an S&B can be a dangerous step. The person who does this work needs to be aware of every inch of the car and not work unaware of the subtle peaks and valleys.

When the S&B is done to a BC/CC paint job, the white residue seen is the clear coat top portion; thus the paint is protected, per se., and not as critical step as that for a single stage paint job.

Dan

Last edited by Dan Wirth; September 1st, 2009 at 03:37 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2009, 04:03 PM
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Im sure you could get laquer in mexico lol.. no epa agencies
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Old September 1st, 2009, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 84 rocket View Post
Im sure you could get laquer in mexico lol.. no epa agencies

You can get just about anything you want south of the border, including many things you don't want.
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Old October 12th, 2009, 02:53 PM
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An update about single stage paint verses BC/CC. Single stage is typically applied in 3-4 coats, making the paint thicker on the car. Thus, a sand and buff to remove the orange peel effect is possible and also common. Single stage paint with acrylic enamel is also preferred (by my local shop) in the hot sun. This is especially the case in AZ, as the BC/CC you see on some older cars here, the clear coat (top coat) is peeled away and oxidized. Single stage can oxidize as well, but if it was applied thick enough, a sand and buff should bring the paint back to life. Using a UV protection polish is also a key.

Unfortunately, on the newer cars painted by robots on the assembly line, the BC/CC paint job is significantly thinner than when cars were shot by humans, a point also stressed by my local shop.
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Old October 24th, 2010, 11:15 PM
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What to paint with on my classic 69 ninety eight?

Ok I have a really nice blue Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 4 door from 1969. It is a really nice looking paint on it. Still shiny and original from that year. I think it was called GM's mirror finish.

So I hear it is called an acrylic lacquer. I need to paint a couple things on the car including the hood and hood extension as the car was in a small accident and I also need to fix a little rust that got to the rear quarter panels on the very bottom. How can I paint just those areas without having to do the whole car? Also can I use base coat clear coat mixing with the old style paint or would that look stupid? Plus where do I get the original GM "mirror" finish paint from?
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Old October 25th, 2010, 01:04 AM
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A guy at the local PPG paint store said certain colors were only available in single stage (like #67 Sienna for example). Don't know if this is true for all brands of paint though.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 02:04 AM
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But the thing I want to know is, say you want to paint the quarter panel area after sanding it, how far should you paint? How should you blend it into the body without having to paint the whole car? And I think this old glossy lacquer stuff needs lots of coats right?
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Old October 25th, 2010, 06:28 AM
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned is a single stage paint + clearcoat. I don't know what brands have compatibility between SS & CC but our shop has always had excellent success w/ this method using BASF products. In my experience this gives the deepest, glossiest finish you could hope for & will pretty much never have a weakness to time or elements. We have done a number of "overrestorations" and the results are excellent. We used Glasurit products in the 80's/early 90's and then switched to sister lines Diamont (BC/CC) & Uno (SS).

Normally this is done as wet on wet operation but can be split up for a really show quality finish or for 2 tone & stripe applications. On the really overdone jobs we would paint parts & body apart so no seams or lines (color consistency not an issue w/ SS), when dry (but not too far cured) sand & buff. THEN wet sand everything back down & clear coat it. Wet sand & buff the clear & be vewy vewy careful assembling. You have no mess from buffing in the nooks & crannies and a finish that looks like you could stick your arm in up the the elbow!

Obviously this method is not a budget operation but the wet on wet SS/CC is no big deal & still gives you a really nice finish.

Quality single stage can be sanded & buffed very flat & very glossy and look very nice. Don't really know about UV resistance being deteriorated from buffing, I have not heard of that before. I can only say that I have never had a car come back w/ faded paint - SS or BC/CC.

Only downside I see to the single stage is repairability - BC/CC very easy to blend color & clear whole panel or in some cases may even be able to pull clear blend. Single stage not really happenin' unless it is clear coated. SS can be blended, but It is a crapshoot.

Last edited by bccan; October 25th, 2010 at 07:03 AM.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ridinginstyle View Post
Ok I have a really nice blue Oldsmobile Ninety Eight 4 door from 1969. It is a really nice looking paint on it. Still shiny and original from that year. I think it was called GM's mirror finish.

So I hear it is called an acrylic lacquer. I need to paint a couple things on the car including the hood and hood extension as the car was in a small accident and I also need to fix a little rust that got to the rear quarter panels on the very bottom. How can I paint just those areas without having to do the whole car? Also can I use base coat clear coat mixing with the old style paint or would that look stupid? Plus where do I get the original GM "mirror" finish paint from?
GM doesn't make paint, nor have they ever. Manufacturers typically take bids on their paint order and go with the lowest one. If GM had something they called "mirror finish", then it was just a marketing ploy. They still do the same thing now. You can buy a new car with Mystic Mountain Blueberry Pearl and when we pull the color code to mix the paint it will be called "Blue Metallic".

If the car does have the original paint from 69, it would most definitely be lacquer. You can paint the areas with single stage or basecoat, blend it in and clear the panel. Just keep in mind that even a straight coat of clear is probably going to alter the appearance enough to create the illusion of a color mis-match. In order to spot paint, blend & match your car's finish, the original paint would have to be in remarkably great condition.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 06:58 PM
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Metallics are the more difficult lacquers to match with repairs. Pastel non metallics are usually easy. You can get lacquer clear coat, but I only did so to add House of Kolor gold flake over the lacquer.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 07:08 PM
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I have seen Dave's 71 w-30 and I have to say that he and his son Did a very nice job i have seen cars that dont look as nice that have come from paint shop. What about emeron ? not sure how to spell it but they use it on trucks .
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Old October 26th, 2010, 10:48 PM
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Listen to ijasond..... I've been painting for a living since the early 80's, and was at the place you guys are, ( as DIYS) in the late 70's. I've worked through the total evolution of Auto painting and products..from MACCO to brand new, (not sold yet) MB/BMW's.

I've read so much mis-information on this thread, that it is obvious (to me), that they're are hobbiests TRYING to help by sharing opinions and experience.

My work has been displayed at the Chicago, NEW CAR auto show, and The World of Wheels CUSTOM car show including several show winners covering parts of three decades. I've owned a collision body shop for twenty years and have taught several younger men to support their families painting cars. I still do several Custom jobs/year. NOT bragging, but stating my qualifications to speak to this issue.

Again, listen to ijasond
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Old October 27th, 2010, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by olds style View Post
Listen to ijasond..... I've been painting for a living since the early 80's, and was at the place you guys are, ( as DIYS) in the late 70's. I've worked through the total evolution of Auto painting and products..from MACCO to brand new, (not sold yet) MB/BMW's.

I've read so much mis-information on this thread, that it is obvious (to me), that they're are hobbiests TRYING to help by sharing opinions and experience.

My work has been displayed at the Chicago, NEW CAR auto show, and The World of Wheels CUSTOM car show including several show winners covering parts of three decades. I've owned a collision body shop for twenty years and have taught several younger men to support their families painting cars. I still do several Custom jobs/year. NOT bragging, but stating my qualifications to speak to this issue.

Again, listen to ijasond
Yes you may be right about us being hobbiests TRYING to help others. Body and paint work is not unlike most other professions or vocations, it takes many years and quite a few mistakes and an expert opinion is always welcome. Why not tell us where you feel there is mis-information so we can continue to TRY and help each other?
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Old October 27th, 2010, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MN71W30 View Post
Yes you may be right about us being hobbiests TRYING to help others. Body and paint work is not unlike most other professions or vocations, it takes many years and quite a few mistakes and an expert opinion is always welcome. Why not tell us where you feel there is mis-information so we can continue to TRY and help each other?
Well my 1969 Oldsmobile has a really nice finish. I am just trying to fix a bit of rust on the bottom quarter panels. Now what I want to know is can you just paint the area you are repairing? How do you blend it into the old paint job so you don't have to paint the whole car? Is this doable? I am a novice and some of the experts could at least talk about their experience and help out some newbies like me.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by MN71W30 View Post
Yes you may be right about us being hobbiests TRYING to help others. Body and paint work is not unlike most other professions or vocations, it takes many years and quite a few mistakes and an expert opinion is always welcome. Why not tell us where you feel there is mis-information so we can continue to TRY and help each other?
I don't intend to discredit members/posters here..my advice is: to listen to ijasond.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ridinginstyle View Post
Well my 1969 Oldsmobile has a really nice finish. I am just trying to fix a bit of rust on the bottom quarter panels. Now what I want to know is can you just paint the area you are repairing? How do you blend it into the old paint job so you don't have to paint the whole car? Is this doable? I am a novice and some of the experts could at least talk about their experience and help out some newbies like me.
Honestly, if you want it repaired, I'd say.... take it to SOMEONE who is experienced in that kind of work.

If you're looking to LEARN how to do it yourself, you need to first ask yourself if you REALLY want to use your antique car as a "guinea pig".

That leads us to what you're expecting and how important it is, that the repairs be either A) Perfect, B) high quality, C) correct, D) exceptable, or if you're just looking to "Get-r-done". Your budget is also a factor. Most would think that has something to do with the caliber of your car, and it's intended purpose and intrinsic value in the "big picture" of things.

A business man would ask about, and consider these things, when taking on the job.

Perhaps by posting here, alot of those variables have been established. Honestly I'm not trying to be difficult, but there are MANY roads you can take.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by olds style View Post
Honestly, if you want it repaired, I'd say.... take it to SOMEONE who is experienced in that kind of work.

If you're looking to LEARN how to do it yourself, you need to first ask yourself if you REALLY want to use your antique car as a "guinea pig".

That leads us to what you're expecting and how important it is, that the repairs be either A) Perfect, B) high quality, C) correct, D) exceptable, or if you're just looking to "Get-r-done". Your budget is also a factor. Most would think that has something to do with the caliber of your car, and it's intended purpose and intrinsic value in the "big picture" of things.

A business man would ask about, and consider these things, when taking on the job.

Perhaps by posting here, alot of those variables have been established. Honestly I'm not trying to be difficult, but there are MANY roads you can take.
Well I can't afford a pro. And since I am just painting the very bottom of the quarter panels which you really don't see I think I can do it. But what is the trick to blending paint. Is it the sanding?
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Old October 30th, 2010, 08:15 AM
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OK, what kind of paint are you blending into, and what kind of paint or you going to be doing the blending, with?

Last edited by olds style; October 30th, 2010 at 07:13 PM. Reason: typo
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Old October 30th, 2010, 01:04 PM
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Arrow Just reading into it....

Originally Posted by olds style View Post
I don't intend to discredit members/posters here..my advice is: to listen to ijasond.

Old Style; You've really hit the Nail on the Head with your advice.... and not asking for anything in return.

Well said !
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