Don R.

This week I've been working to finish this project and thelast step was the hood. The hood on this car is a massive affair held togetherwith metal braces and a thick fiberglass insulating pad glued to the underside.I took it all apart and peeled off the pad then cleaned and sanded everythingprior to repainting all the parts. I bought a reproduction pad from Rubber TheRight Way, it was the right size but very thin compared to the original. Iwound up carefully peeling off the dirty front and back layers of the originalpad to thin it down, glued it back in place, then glued the new pad on top. Thehood braces hold it all in place and it looks pretty good. I put the hoodhinges back on and my son came over today and helped me get the hood back on. Iwas a little worried about the alignment but it was pretty easy and the gapslook better than they did before. Just a bit of cleaning and some wax and itwill be looking good.


Sorry, I tried to post photos but all of a sudden they won't load - I'm getting real tired of the problems on this site!

Don R.

Test - just one photo

Don R.

Lets try a few more...

Don R.

So far so good...

Don R.

OK, those are all the same photos I was trying to load before and it wouldn't let me.


I also purchased a bunch of reproduction label stickers for Rubber the Right Way, still have to add them.

D. Yaros

Don, The new pad looks more than "a bit thinner." It looks to be 1/3 the size of the original? You did a fantastic job on combining the two! Am sure that was quite a task.

Don R.

Yeah, that's about right. Its also not the same color as the original but I think I like the dark color better. (Won't show the dirt!) I had to cut the rectangular hole in it which was only on cars with A/C to clear the compressor pulley. I basically just peeled the dirty front and back layer of fiberglass off the old pad then gently beat it like a rug to get the dust out. Definitely need gloves and a mask for that, a VERY dirty job. Used 3M spray adhesive to mount it although it is held firmly in place by the hood braces.

Don R.

Well, I didn't do all the work that I wanted to but I'm happy with what I got done. Yesterday I put the Olds back in storage garage jail and brought the 34 Packard home, I'm not really comfortable with that one in storage now that the weather is turning cold. Looks like the Packard is not going to sell so I will be stuck like this for awhile.

Don R.

It took awhile but my 34 Packard finally sold around Christmas. Last week I pulled the Starfire out of storage to save paying another month's rent and today the Packard went on the truck. Sorry to see it go but glad to be back to just two hobby cars.

therobski

I hear you Don. I just had the M-21 4-speed rebuilt on the 67 and as soon as I get the exhaust back on and do a few other things I'm going to sell the 67 and the 62 88. Going to "thin the herd" also and get back to having 2 -63 Corvette and my 64 F-85 Pro Touring car that's not finished....

Don R.

Another long gap in my posting, I've been working on my GTX. The Olds has been very dependable, the only issue was a battery discharge due to a terminal disconnecting from the voltage regulator, I think that was my fault from my firewall detailing. I'm finally getting to working on the steering linkage, there was looseness there and it has gotten worse including some tire wear. Not knowing which of the two joint types (Saginaw or Thompson) I had, I bought replacement center links and idler arms of both types. I pulled the old linkage off today and immediately found the problem, the center link joint at the pitman arm was shot and extremely loose. I have the larger joint type whichever one that is. The idler arm is tight so I won't replace that right now. I'm also hoping this will solve a groaning noise in the steering which I have had since I bought the car, we'll see. I'll also need to get the car aligned, I'm going to ask for a recommendation from a shop I've used for the GTX.

D. Yaros

When working on this, have you not run across any markings or numbers on the parts that would tell you whether they are Saginaw or TRW?

YOU SAY: Not knowing which of the two joint types (Saginaw or Thompson) I had, I bought replacement center links and idler arms of both types.

Do both center links appear to work/be the same? If not, which one did work on your car? The one that did should identify for you the manufacturer of your linkage, as it has to be one or the other. I do not think one may mix and match?

Charlie Jones

I have found that the steering system can be identified by the forging number on the pitman arm (on the steering box).
The Saginaw pitman arm forging number will have seven digits and start with 56. (56XXXXX)
Dave, you are correct. The two types cannot be mixed.

Fusick also had a way to identify them. See the note on the bottom of the attached catalog page.

Don R.

You guys are way ahead of me with forging numbers, etc. I had seen the Fusick note and just knew that one joint taper was SLIGHTLY larger than the other. After disassembly I apparently have the Saginaw which is the larger of the two. So now I will have a Thompson center link and idler arm to put on Ebay...

oldcutlass

You might put it on here also, seems to be an increase in the need lately.

Don R.

I got the linkage all buttoned up yesterday with no problems. Definitely feels tighter, (no surprise there) the groaning noise is better but still there when I first start out. Now I need to get it aligned but I have a good recommendation, we'll see how that goes.

Don R.

The front end alignment is done. On recommendation from a shop that fixes and restores muscle cars I took it to a Kwik-Kar oil change shop, I was a bit leery at first but this shop is larger than most and had a full Hunter setup. It took two tries as they ran out of the correct shims but it was done yesterday. On the short ride home it felt much better, less wandering and better connected to the road. All the specs were out with Toe being the worst. Tomorrow I'll rotate the tires and take it for a longer highway ride to see how it feels at higher speeds.

Don R.

I have the original 4GC carb on my 63, I rebuilt it a few years ago and for the most part it runs good. I do have a couple of minor but irritating issues that I would like to fix if possible and hope you experts can help:

• I get a bog sometimes from the secondaries on kickdown. I'm pretty sure this is being caused by the auxiliary throttle valves opening too fast. This is my fault as when I rebuilt the carb I noticed the spring / pin thingy that controls the air valve was missing. Is that part available anywhere or does anyone have a spare aux. valve assembly they don't need?
• I have a recurring minor gas leak problem at the front of the carb at the fuel inlet. I still have the stock metal line from the fuel pump with a flare fitting which screws into a brass block which then screws into another fitting that screws into the carb throttle body. (See photo) Because of this multi-fitting overkill I can't tighten it fully and it leaks. I can temporarily stop this with high-tack gasket sealer but the fuel eventually gets through. The line does need to drop down to clear the air cleaner, has anybody else had this problem and if so how did you solve it? I wouldn't mind cutting or replacing the metal line or going to a rubber line if it would permanently stop the leaking.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Oldskeeper

Hi Don, I found that the fuel line leak could be repaired for me by using a product called DEVCON that is a 2 part aluminium repair epoxy. I mixed up a little bit and removed the brass adaptor at the front of the carb and put it on the threads reinstalled the brass adaptor and after hooking up the steel line just smeared the overflow of DEVCON around the fitting. I let it sit overnight and it holds, I don't have any more gas leaks. The DEVCON is available at any outlet for industrial tools (tool bits, end mills, drills,taps and other tooling that would be considered industrial.
Hope this helps you out with the leak.
I can't help with the bogging other then the float height is out and the accelerator pump is adding to much fuel, try changing the hole location on the pump.
Steve

Don R.

Thanks Steve, I'll take a look at Devcon. I don't think the bog is from the accelerator pump, the only time I notice it is when the secondaries kick in.

Charlie Jones

Don , sounds to me like the missing " spring/pin thingy " is probably the root of your bogging problem.
It probably wouldn't hurt to buy a rochester 4GC core for parts . There's this one on E-Bay;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OLDS-394-ENG...9WbZiQ&vxp=mtr

Don R.

Thanks Charlie.

Don R.

Well, "tomorrow" turned into a week, between all the rain we've had here and my laziness, I finally got the tires rotated and wheel covers back on today and took the car for a longer expressway ride. What a difference! It rides and tracks so well now I begin to wonder if the "alignment" I got years ago with the front end rebuild wasn't just done by eyeball...

Don R.

On second thought I can't justify spending $70 or more just to get a little adjuster spring. I'm wondering if the air valve adjuster parts from a Quadrajet would work, I have a few parts carbs of that persuasion. Does anyone have a 4GC auxiliary valve they could take some closeup photos of showing the spring adjuster?

Don R.

Hey Steve, its been a while since you posted this, I'm finally tackling my fuel line leak. I looked up Devcon and they sell a whole bunch of epoxy products - do you know the specific name of the one you used? Thanks, Don

Cpriester123

Hey Don if you don't mind me asking, what type of paint did you use on the engine and has it been holding up well since? I just received my block back from the machinist and have to paint it soon. I've read numerous threads on epoxy primer vs self etch. Acrylic coats vs ceramic...

Oldskeeper

Hi Don, The Devcon product I'm having the best results with is Aluminium Putty (F)
10610. I covered the threads and after threading it in and lining it up I would wipe the extra around the fitting and then let it sit for a day before trying it, if you don't wait the gas will erode the Devcon and start leaking again. I have had great success and it will last until you remove the fitting when you rebuild the carb after 20 years.
Steve

Don R.

I used DupliColor Ceramic engine paint for both the red and silver in regular rattle cans. I did the repaint a couple of years ago and it has held up well, some burnoff by exhaust and crossover but that's common. I painted the engine in the car, did a so-so cleaning job, and did not use any primer, so the paint's longevity is impressive to me. If you are doing the engine out of the car you will be able to do a much better job.

Don R.

Thanks Steve, I went ahead and deleted the 45 degree fitting, substituted a straight pipe nipple, cut the line and put in a short rubber hose. Not as pretty but finally no more leaks.

Cpriester123

Thanks I appreciate it. Nice work too

Don R.

WARNING - long post! Those of you who have followed this thread from the beginning (more than 5 years ago!) may remember I originally wanted to mount a set of 17" alloy wheels and 255-50-17 tires from a 95 Chevy Impala SS on this car. They fit perfectly and clear everywhere but the problem was that the wheel lug studs were too short to safely use. So I mounted steel wheels and wheel covers and saved the Impala wheels. About a year ago I picked up a 96 Chevy 9C1 cop car as a beater and wound up buying a new set of Nitto tires and using the Impala wheels on that car but only put a few miles on them before selling the car and again had the wheels stacked in the corner of my garage. I had found a local shop for old car work that I trusted so I finally decided to get this conversion done.


I had the shop replace all of the wheel studs with longer versions to allow safe mounting of the thicker alloy wheels and at the same time eliminate the left hand thread studs on the driver's side wheels that came from the factory. This was fairly involved as the rear axles had to be pulled to press the studs out and in. In the front the studs on one side had already been incorrectly pressed out from the outside which damaged the hub, and replacements had been tack welded in place. The shop used a mill to clean that up and remove the rear of the studs on the other side and press them out from the back like the shop manual suggested. Front bearings were repacked and all seals were replaced. I also had them replace the rear brake hose which I had never done and flush the brake system.


I mounted up the wheels today and they look great, should have done this a long time ago!

Charlie Jones

Looks great , Don.
Sometimes , the most seemingly complex problems , can have very simple solutions.

ripper27

if you ever need a harmonic balancer for394 63 olds let me know ,I have one that was rebuilt laying around ,

MichiDan

Don - bunch of nice work here. I hopped on the forum today to ask for Starfire underhood pictures, but I found enough in your thread to keep me busy for a while. I started working on my own starfire by cleaning up the battery tray, checking some wiring, etc. Your pictures are a big help.

Don R.

Thanks. I've had this car for five years and have been slowly detailing and fixing things. I'm about to get into the 4GC carb again and still have to detail underneath now that I have the see-thru wheels, all part of the fun. You should start a thread with your car and share your experiences, we need to see more of the big cars.

3whiterag

Hello, I have just started following this thread and it brings back a whole lot of memories for me since I learned to drive on my fathers 63 Starfire. I just turned 65 yesterday, His was a black on cranberry / maroon? leatherette material and NON power window car. It took a while for the dealership (Golden Mile Chev/Olds in Toronto (Scarborough) to find one without power window. My Dad did not want them because my brother was a year old and he was scared he would strangle himself with the window. LOL I would love to find that car and buy it! They were awesome cars! I wanted to buy it from my Dad but he said I would never be able to keep tires on it! :-)

Don R.

Thanks 3whiterag. back in the late 60s/early 70s I had a 64 Dynamic 88 and a 64 Jetstar 1 as daily drivers, loved and missed them both. Their memories were what made me buy my Starfire 5 years ago and I still like it enough to hang on to it as other hobby cars come and go.

Don R.

Warning - long post.
As mentioned earlier I finally had to go back into the Rochester 4GC carb again. I originally rebuilt it about 5 years ago and it has performed well but I had three issues that bugged me: a stumble / hesitation when accelerating out of a right turn (but not a left!), an occasional bog on kickdown when opening the secondaries, and a repetitive gas leak at the fuel inlet. I thought I had fixed the inlet leak by eliminating the Rube Goldberg fittings in favor of a rubber hose, but it hit the air cleaner and caused a worse leak.


So I decided to pull the carb and go through it completely. I bought a kit from Rock Auto plus a "Bonus" no-name kit. I also bought a parts carb which came with the remains of an old kit. With my carb on the bench I removed the base plate and secondary air valve, easy diagnosis of my secondary problem as it hung wide open! At first I thought the tension spring was broken but it was just loosened, I adjusted it and it worked fine.


After seeing a lot of posts here about 4CG deterioration issues due to ethanol gas I was prepared for the worst but when I pulled the air horn everything looked fine. No rubber damage or gumming, just a little dust in the float chambers. I cleaned it, put on a new gasket and readjusted the floats. I did find an interesting adjuster tool in the old kit that came with my parts carb, a two-part adjustable caliper type gauge that made checking the dimensions much easier than the ones in the newer kits. Turns out my floats were way off on the low fuel level side. I put in a new accelerator pump piston just to be safe and buttoned it back up.


I put the carb back on with a new rubber inlet hose and switched to an aftermarket air cleaner for clearance. Took it out for a ride, what a difference! No more hesitation, smooth secondary engagement and no more leaks. I'm still fiddling with air cleaner setup but all is well otherwise.

hurstoldz

Looking good!

Don R.

Back to this thread after another very long gap, this car has been pretty dependable so I just keep it clean, put gas in it and drive it. We just had about three days of record high temps (80s - 90s) in DFW so I took advantage and knocked another few things off my to-do list. After mounting the alloy wheels and big rubber I noticed the view of the rusty brakedrums and dirty inner wheelwells did not look good. I pulled the wheels, did some quick cleaning and painted everything with Rustoleum 2X Coverage semigloss black.


This is another one of those jobs where the actual painting probably took 30 minutes and the preparation took a whole day. I covered the garage floor with plastic before positioning the car, covered the GTX with a large cover and the Starfire with an old blue nylon cover I've had for 100 years. Then I masked all the wheelwell trim moldings with tape and paper. The hot weather helped the paint dry quickly. While I had the car in the air I checked the rear axle fluid and changed the engine oil and filter (Valvoline VR 20W50, 6 ounces Marvel Mystery Oil, Wix filter)


All cleaned up yesterday and the cold weather is back today. Here are a few before and after pics.