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I've seen some info on swapping in a different automatic but little on putting in a manual. I think D&D has fiberglass tunnel sections... stock 3- and 4- speeds and T-5... any other options? Assuming a slightly warmed up 215 and fun daily driving. No drags.
I'm gonna make the drive from central PA to Rochester to look at the blue car...
Ryan
The 3 speed requires no tunnel modifications other than cutting a hole for the floor shift if you want to do that. No modifications at all are needed to go to a 3 speed column shift. You just have to find all the parts. The 4 speed conversion is the most common, I think because you're just duplicating what the factory did with mostly factory parts. I don't know a lot about the 5 speed conversion other than people have done them. I imagine it requires more custom fabrication and modification, but if you didn't care about being stock, or period correct, a 5 speed would be nice in this car I would think.
The hardest parts to find for the 4 speed conversion are the pedal set, Z-bar, clutch linkage and the transmission support bar. D & D can sell you a bell housing, flywheel and the fiberglass tunnel mod. Clutches, throwout bearings, speedo cable and Hurst shifters are at places like Summit Racing. The transmission itself is easy to buy from any number of transmission vendors. Also the back up light switch is available too. If you can't find a factory drive shaft, one can be made from your existing auto one. You'll just need to source the right yoke for the transmission. Remember to check with the Buick guys, their cars used the same parts for the 4 speed.
In the last year I have seen two 4 speed parts cars come and go. I don't know who got them, but they were both on Craigslist. One in Iowa and one in Wisconsin. IMO, buying a whole parts car just for the conversion parts is the way to go if you can manage it. '62 and '63 have the same 4 speed parts.
1963 stock wheels... what color were they from the factory? Black? White? Body color? Was there a difference for F85 and Cutlass?
Tires... not crazy about white wall or white pinstripe. Black walls appropriate? How long until redline tires showed up on cars that weren’t delivered with them from the dealer?
1963 stock wheels... what color were they from the facts? Black? White? Body color? Was there a difference for F85 and Cutlass?
Tires... not crazy about white wall or white pinstripe. Black walls appropriate? How long until redline tires showed up on cars that weren’t delivered with them from the dealer?
All wheels were black by default. As an extra cost option, the wheels could be painted any of the 16 available body colors. If this is the case, it will be noted on the body tag. No difference between the F-85, Cutlass, or Jetfire in this regard.
Black wall tires were standard equipment on these cars, all models. White wall tires were an extra cost option, so yes, black wall tires are correct if you like them. Redline tires were never offered. Some say the first redlines came on the '64 GTO. I tried to find an official history, but can't. I think they were really big from '67 to '69 or so. A short lived fad that is way more popular now than it was then.
Thanks, guys. I really do appreciate it. Good note on the red lines. Thank you, both. I hope the car I’m looking at on Tuesday is as clean as the photos make it seem. Already sorta building it in my head. It has pretty awful (to me) aftermarket wheels on it but the seller does have the factory wheels (with unknown tires mounted) and full wheel covers. I’ll need to see if I can find a key to the body tag. I do have a photo of it.
And it has a Buick 215. Still not sure how I feel about that, but it seems to be a strong runner.
Thanks, guys. I really do appreciate it. Good note on the red lines. Thank you, both. I hope the car I’m looking at on Tuesday is as clean as the photos make it seem. Already sorta building it in my head. It has pretty awful (to me) aftermarket wheels on it but the seller does have the factory wheels (with unknown tires mounted) and full wheel covers. I’ll need to see if I can find a key to the body tag. I do have a photo of it.
And it has a Buick 215. Still not sure how I feel about that, but it seems to be a strong runner.
This tag says this car is a 1963 Cutlass coupe, built in Lansing Michigan in the second week of April 1963 and it was the 15,257th body to roll down that Fisher Body plant that year. The car was originally Wedgwood Mist (light blue metallic) on the body and the top and it had a white interior. By default we know it's an automatic car with black wheels.
The accessory codes for these cars are only partly decoded. I have no idea what "2M" meant and I doubt anybody else does either. The only option codes that ever got listed had to do with things that effected how Fisher Body had to build the body. Accessories installed by Oldsmobile later on, are not listed. Things that I know they listed are, either manual transmission, floor shift console for the automatic, power windows, A/C and I think power brakes. There may be more.
As to the engine, it's common to find Buick/Olds swaps. These cars don't have a lot of value and it's been that way a long time. Finding a good running used engine is cheaper than a rebuild, so many go that way. As you know, the Buick and Olds engines are pretty much the same, but if you want it to look like an Olds under the hood, you'll have to get an Olds engine.
Group 2 ACC code M appears to indicate the automatic trans.
Is that how they did it in '63? In '62 they never mentioned the accessory groups as far as I can tell and the automatic transmission was not mentioned because the vast majority of cars were ordered with automatic. It was easier to note the much more rare manuals when they happened. The accessory groups in '62 did not include and automatic transmission. In '62, the M order code was for electric clock, something Fisher Body wouldn't care at all about. Admittedly, I have no idea how they coded '63s. The "2M" format is different from what they did in '62 at all three plants. There seems to be little consistency in this era and each plant was allowed to to do it their own way and they changed it up again for '63.
Is that how they did it in '63? In '62 they never mentioned the accessory groups as far as I can tell and the automatic transmission was not mentioned because the vast majority of cars were ordered with automatic. It was easier to note the much more rare manuals when they happened. The accessory groups in '62 did not include and automatic transmission. In '62, the M order code was for electric clock, something Fisher Body wouldn't care at all about. Admittedly, I have no idea how they coded '63s. The "2M" format is different from what they did in '62 at all three plants. There seems to be little consistency in this era and each plant was allowed to to do it their own way and they changed it up again for '63.
Yes, the RPO codes on the order forms and the ACC codes on the cowl tag changed from 1962 to 1963. The 63 codes use the same format as the 64-67 cars, where the order form RPO codes use the three character alphanumeric format (like C60 for A/C) and there are five ACC groups and letters were used in each group to signify the options. I should clarify that I don't have solid proof on the Group 2 M code. Olds typically used similar ACC codes as those of other divisions. I've found a lot of documentation to show that for 1963, 2M was used to designate the AT by Chevy (specifically Powerglide) across all their car lines, including Corvair and Nova.
Boy, this place is great. I’m learning lots. Thank you.
I’m set to make the road trip to look at this ‘63 tomorrow. I’m good enough at going through old cars and trucks... only thing on these cars that is a mystery is how the RH5 is supposed to operate. (Buick 215, but assuming that the car kept the Roto and didn’t also get a Buick tranny...) Can anyone describe how a properly functioning and adjusted RH5 shifts?
The 1-2 shift is odd when it is working correct so it makes it hard to tell if it is right or wrong. other than that, it should shift like any other transmission.
Perfect. A million thanks. Always good to know what “right” is.
We've come a long way with slushbox transmissions, eh? Can you imagine trying to sell a new car with those shift characteristics today?
I’ve read a few things on the “Super” on the selector. Does this change the shift pattern or character in any way or just limit the range to 1-2?
Just limits the range. Our 62 was for sure slipping between 1 and 2 when we got it. It was doing all sorts of weird things. it would slip all through 2nd till it hit 3rd but 2nd was great if you stepped on it in 3rd and it shifted down. Even with a slow 1-2 shift I could still tell there was something wrong with it.
I can’t believe how nice this car drives! The transmission shifted just as you say.. a longer shift between 1-2, but butter smooth all through the range, up and down. I was also pleasantly surprised how much power this car has and how quick it feels. (May be because I drive a 5,000lbs+ ‘78 K10 Suburban every day!) A little soft cornering, but nothing that can’t be improved. All trim and dodads are present and in nice shape. Dry car. Complete. Just needs rear seat belts.
So I bought it.
Guy was super nice and honest to a fault. He owns a body shop so we’re working out a deal to get the little bit of rust dealt with before I pick it up. This car can be driven daily right now but there are enough small projects for Spencer and I to work on. I almost hesitate to do any hot rodding to the little Buick it runs so strong as is.
Almost.
And these rims and tires will be available. Guy has the stockers and original wheel covers, though I’ll probably search out some dog dish caps on the steel wheels. Wheels are black, but I’m considering painting them white or body color Wedgewood.
Thanks! By the way it shifts, I’d say yes. Also has all the right detents on the shifter for the RH5. Couldn’t squeeze far enough under to get a look at the case though.
Congratulations! Looks good. Hopefully the guy does proper rot repair by cutting out the steel and butt welding in new metal. Quick and easy rot repair always fails a few years down the road.
We discussed at length how to go about the rust repair. Cut out and new steel. I’m willing to pay and wait for it to be done right. These areas seem to be pretty straightforward and the guy has done the same on his ‘63 Dynamic 88. (Also Wedgewood Mist...) I have a tendency to put off bodywork too long because that isn’t a skill set I have to DIY, so it will be nice to get this done right, right away.
Looks like the Cutlass will be ready to come home on Columbus Day. Gotta figure out the logistics of getting to Rochester and back home to Pennsylvania with the car. In the meantime, I'm making a plan for some quick projects to make the car mine. (Nice that the rust repair will be done!)
FIRST MOVES
Wheels/Rubber - Seller is gonna hit the OE steel wheels with body color. Have the tires on them mounted blackwall-out and balanced. He has the original full wheel covers, but I'm looking for a set of dog dish hubcaps. If anyone has a set of dog dish caps, I'm a buyer. I have a set located on eBay, but would prefer to buy/sell/trade with forum members. (The Datsun rims that are on it now come with the sale but I'll be moving them along. Let me know if you like the look and are interested.) So I'll run matching Wedgewood Mist steel wheels, blackwall radials, and F85 dog dish caps. Might run bias-look radials eventually...
Seat Belts - Seller added front belts. They're sorta beige. Good enough for now. I must add rears for the kiddos. When I spruce up the interior I'll replace the beige generic front belts with black and 'period' retractors.
Roadside Oh No! - Throw a spare, jack, and my tools in the trunk. Buy reasonable spares to carry along like points/condenser, belts, jug of antifreeze,
Cup Holder/Console - I drink a lot of coffee. A lot. And my one gripe with vintage vehicles is the lack of a place to rest my coffee cup. My Suburbans had bench seats, so I had nifty, vintage-looking little console/cupholder jobs sitting in the middle of the bench. Not sure what a solution is here, but one of those flimsy plastic things hanging on the door isn't an option. Ha. Open to suggestions or solutions you guys have found.
DRIVE IT!
PHASE 2
Choke - Car starts fine, but I gotta figure out what's going on there...
Suspension - New stock height and rate coils. New shocks. Any suggestion on shocks? While I'm at it, I'll do a thorough exam of all the front end components and see what might need some attention.
Rear Sway Bar - I'll give that '63 Tempest bar from Speedway a shot...
Slow-Roll Interior - I'll spruce up the interior as time allows. No full-on tear out and restoration... this car doesn't need it. Black carpet to replace the blue the seller installed (along with sound/heat insulation). Black seat belts all around. Get the radio upgraded. Courtesy light lenses on the C pillars. Dye the carpet section of the door panels back to black, clean up the white vinyl. Floor mats. (Any Olds-labeled mats available?) Eventually get new vinyl on the front seats. Package tray. That's about it, really...
LITTLE TOUCHES EVERYWHERE... When time allows...
Interior-Plus - Gauges make me feel secure. I'll add a set of period-correct Temp, Oil, Volt gauges to keep an eye on things. I'd LOVE to find a working set of vintage gauges, but will probably look for something new. I'm not a fan of shiny new trinkets in an otherwise 'survivor' car. I can't remember from my drive if a tach can be mounted on the column with the automatic shifter or not... but I'd like to find a place to put a mid-60s tach.
Interiro-Plus-Plus - IF I can find an aftermarket A/C setup that will work in these cars AND the unit looks correct AND I can find a clutch fan that I can run to keep things cool under the hood... then maybe Air Conditioning.
Underhood Details - Little things like... paint the air cleaner and valve covers. Replace the plastic washer fluid jug with one of those nifty bottles. Replace the underhood insulation that currently looks like the skin of a mountain lion with mange...
Dodads - I like to find little things to add to an old car. Like a vintage license plate advertising an obsolete speed shop. (Penna. only has rear plates...) A throwback bumper sticker to a tourist trap. Vintage fog lights? Maybe an antenna ball. Open to suggestions!!
BIG DREAMS
Hot Little 215 and a 4-Speed - Yeah.
So I'm about to have a car and everyone has been really excellent in helping with information, advice and forming a plan. Thank you all for that. I'm looking forward to any thoughts on the above. When 'Fred' the Cutlass comes home to Pennsylvania, I'll start a 'build' or 'project' thread. This is gonna be fun.
