Last resort before I drop in Chevy power.
December 30th, 2012, 08:51 PM
#1
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 41
Last resort before I drop in Chevy power.
Hey guys, joined here as I've entered the Olds world once again for the second time after being mostly a Chevy owner for the longest. I sold my 73 Impala and bought an 88 Cutlass with t-tops a few years ago; didn't work out for me got the Impala back. Now I have traded my short bed 83 pickup for an 84 Delta 88. I'm happier with the aquisition and i'm also stuck with it!
Problem: Car runs great for about 10 minutes and then goes into like a "limp mode" as if the computer controlled advance isn't working or something. THe car backfires and is very sluggish and it seems as if the computer has an issue. If I disconnect the battery and reconnect it, It goes back to running great. It also developed a noise from the passenger side yesterday that sounds like a collapsed lifter or pushrod issue. I have deleted the remaining emissions crap and plugged some vacuum lines, but the issues were apparent before doing so. The car runs better but still does not run well, for any extended periods of time.
No overheating, or any other typical symptons. No check engine lights. I'm stumped, I would really like to keep the car original with the 307 but I feel like it's going to be a pian to delete the computer, or at least get it to run correctly. ALong with the lifter tapping, the fuel pump that was recently replaced started leaking, the new water pump leaks and the thermostat housing leaks. The previous owner went crazy with RTV sealer instead of just using the appropriate gaskets. I purchased an Edelbrock performer intake, and can take care of the lifter issues when changing that out and fixing the leak issues, but I'm clueless as what to do about the obvious computer issue.
I have Chevy motors laying around and a bad *** 350 .060 over with a forged rotating assembly, big cam and nice heads is complete begging me to be dropped in. As I stated before I don't really want to go this route but I will if I cannot figure this 307 issue out. I had the 307 in a Lesabre before and in my 88 cutlass and they both ran excellent, but this is ridiculous. I don't have the time or money to sink into the 307 either to try and beef it up, but I just want it to run correctly.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Problem: Car runs great for about 10 minutes and then goes into like a "limp mode" as if the computer controlled advance isn't working or something. THe car backfires and is very sluggish and it seems as if the computer has an issue. If I disconnect the battery and reconnect it, It goes back to running great. It also developed a noise from the passenger side yesterday that sounds like a collapsed lifter or pushrod issue. I have deleted the remaining emissions crap and plugged some vacuum lines, but the issues were apparent before doing so. The car runs better but still does not run well, for any extended periods of time.
No overheating, or any other typical symptons. No check engine lights. I'm stumped, I would really like to keep the car original with the 307 but I feel like it's going to be a pian to delete the computer, or at least get it to run correctly. ALong with the lifter tapping, the fuel pump that was recently replaced started leaking, the new water pump leaks and the thermostat housing leaks. The previous owner went crazy with RTV sealer instead of just using the appropriate gaskets. I purchased an Edelbrock performer intake, and can take care of the lifter issues when changing that out and fixing the leak issues, but I'm clueless as what to do about the obvious computer issue.
I have Chevy motors laying around and a bad *** 350 .060 over with a forged rotating assembly, big cam and nice heads is complete begging me to be dropped in. As I stated before I don't really want to go this route but I will if I cannot figure this 307 issue out. I had the 307 in a Lesabre before and in my 88 cutlass and they both ran excellent, but this is ridiculous. I don't have the time or money to sink into the 307 either to try and beef it up, but I just want it to run correctly.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
December 30th, 2012, 09:18 PM
#2
Hangin' out...
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 608
Welcome to the forums! Based on your observations on the RTV, etc. I smell some serious mickey mouse work/neglect. The 307 computer controlled cars run great, but everything HAS to be up to spec. They aren't that forgiving. This is a good place to start:
http://tlentz.oldsgmail.com/more_power.html
See step one.
A lot is going through my mind. So let's start off with some basics.
-When you turn the key to start the car, does the "Check engine" light come on momentarily? If not, there could be a lot of reasons why it doesn't work. The lamp driver could have been removed, for example.
-Have you removed the air cleaner to determine if the previous owner changed the carburetor? Sometimes, ignorant owners take the computer controlled carb off and swap an edelbrock without realizing how the system works. If the quadrajet has the two electrical plugs, that's a good start.
-When you disconnect the battery and then reconnect it, for how long does it run great?
If it runs good for 10 minutes then starts running poorly, I'm guessing that it's not going into/staying in closed-loop operation. The ECM itself rarely fails, but it's not unheard of. It's often an incorrect adjustment on the carb, a bad sensor, or other problems that you would encounter on any non-computer car. That means regular tune-up items or cracked/leaking vacuum lines. The 307 cars have what seems like a million miles of vacuum lines and if they leak, the computer is not getting the right information to determine optimal fuel/spark.
There are a dozen or so questions that come to mind, but we'll do what we can here to help. Lots of knowledgeable people here, so don't fret. Also, you won't get much support here if you intend to swap the Chevy. Many of the forum members are purist and want to keep an Oldsmobile running an Oldsmobile engine. Going the Chevy route would not be difficult, though. I'm guessing a wrecked caprice of the same year would give you all the parts you need.
Keep us posted and good luck!
http://tlentz.oldsgmail.com/more_power.html
See step one.
A lot is going through my mind. So let's start off with some basics.
-When you turn the key to start the car, does the "Check engine" light come on momentarily? If not, there could be a lot of reasons why it doesn't work. The lamp driver could have been removed, for example.
-Have you removed the air cleaner to determine if the previous owner changed the carburetor? Sometimes, ignorant owners take the computer controlled carb off and swap an edelbrock without realizing how the system works. If the quadrajet has the two electrical plugs, that's a good start.
-When you disconnect the battery and then reconnect it, for how long does it run great?
If it runs good for 10 minutes then starts running poorly, I'm guessing that it's not going into/staying in closed-loop operation. The ECM itself rarely fails, but it's not unheard of. It's often an incorrect adjustment on the carb, a bad sensor, or other problems that you would encounter on any non-computer car. That means regular tune-up items or cracked/leaking vacuum lines. The 307 cars have what seems like a million miles of vacuum lines and if they leak, the computer is not getting the right information to determine optimal fuel/spark.
There are a dozen or so questions that come to mind, but we'll do what we can here to help. Lots of knowledgeable people here, so don't fret. Also, you won't get much support here if you intend to swap the Chevy. Many of the forum members are purist and want to keep an Oldsmobile running an Oldsmobile engine. Going the Chevy route would not be difficult, though. I'm guessing a wrecked caprice of the same year would give you all the parts you need.
Keep us posted and good luck!
December 30th, 2012, 09:29 PM
#3
Hi and welcome to CO.
These cars really do run well with the computer controlled set up. Would be a lot less work to get this 307 up and running properly than to switch it out to a Chevy motor. Some thoughts on your problem: You stated that the check engine light is not coming on?
Does the light work on the dash?
Did you check the computer to see if it is flashing "code 12" to indicate that it is functioning properly?
Is the Mixture Control Soleniod on the carburetor clicking when the car is running?
Condition of catalytic converter? I've seen some ones that were clogged up and caused the condition you described as well.
Hope that helps.
These cars really do run well with the computer controlled set up. Would be a lot less work to get this 307 up and running properly than to switch it out to a Chevy motor. Some thoughts on your problem: You stated that the check engine light is not coming on?
Does the light work on the dash?
Did you check the computer to see if it is flashing "code 12" to indicate that it is functioning properly?
Is the Mixture Control Soleniod on the carburetor clicking when the car is running?
Condition of catalytic converter? I've seen some ones that were clogged up and caused the condition you described as well.
Hope that helps.
December 30th, 2012, 10:52 PM
#4
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: South Florida
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All original form what I can tell. No vacuum leaks. Not sure if the CEL even works, someone cut wires on the harness in the engine compartment, I'm guessin when they started removing the emissions crap. Both the 2 and 3 wire plugs to the Qjet are there and intact (actually runs worse when both of them are connected, I know they are supposed to be hooked up).
No funny sounds under the hood other than the tapping lifter that just started. I do hear a relay clicking under the dash while driving, but I don't think it is engine related. It runs well for about 10 minutes, then when I come to a light or stop the rpm's drop and the engine gets shaky. If I'm not careful with the accelerator it will backfire at this point and when the rpms do increase while in drive, there is just no power.
I've only had the car a few weeks and don't drive it other than a few 5 minute drives to work and a few cruises around town. I noticed the vacuum solenoid on the driver side exhaust manifold was staying closed, so I disconnected it from the carb and this has help alot even when it's not running correctly.
I would like to get the 307 running well and keep it original Olds power, it's just very discouraging at this point. Especially having to go back through the work the previous owner did, just to get it running right.
No funny sounds under the hood other than the tapping lifter that just started. I do hear a relay clicking under the dash while driving, but I don't think it is engine related. It runs well for about 10 minutes, then when I come to a light or stop the rpm's drop and the engine gets shaky. If I'm not careful with the accelerator it will backfire at this point and when the rpms do increase while in drive, there is just no power.
I've only had the car a few weeks and don't drive it other than a few 5 minute drives to work and a few cruises around town. I noticed the vacuum solenoid on the driver side exhaust manifold was staying closed, so I disconnected it from the carb and this has help alot even when it's not running correctly.
I would like to get the 307 running well and keep it original Olds power, it's just very discouraging at this point. Especially having to go back through the work the previous owner did, just to get it running right.
December 30th, 2012, 11:10 PM
#5
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Location: Plano, TX
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Welcome to the site!
What exactly was deleted?
These engines ran well when:
1.) all emission crap there and working (sans air pump)
and
2.) when all computer crap deleted and non-computer carb and disty installed.
The latter can be done only if your state does not do visual or functional checks of the emission crap.
The CEL should light when the key is turned to RUN as a test.
Did you pull any codes from the computer (if it is hooked up)??
These engines ran well when:
1.) all emission crap there and working (sans air pump)
and
2.) when all computer crap deleted and non-computer carb and disty installed.
The latter can be done only if your state does not do visual or functional checks of the emission crap.
The CEL should light when the key is turned to RUN as a test.
Did you pull any codes from the computer (if it is hooked up)??
December 30th, 2012, 11:26 PM
#6
Hangin' out...
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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The computer isn't too sophisticated, so it's important to make sure the whole system works; It can only compensate so much. The factory service manual is definitely your friend here.
All of OLD SKL's suggestions are not only great, but also cheap to free!
Last edited by henryk8398; December 30th, 2012 at 11:30 PM.
December 30th, 2012, 11:47 PM
#7
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Ok, cool maybe we're getting somewhere? As a matter of fact, yes the Check Engine Light does flash on when the key is turned over. I'm in Florida- no emissions, the air pump is gone, the egr is not hooked up, and there are no catalytic converters someone put dual exhaust with flowmasters on the car.
I'm all for putting a vacuum advance dist on the car, and would like to eliminate the computer if possible but what about the TQ converter lockup? Can the comp controlled carb even be properly used without being hooked up to a computer?
I have had clogged cats on vehicles before, not the case lol there are no cats. Like I said before, when I disconnect and reconnect the battery, everything is perfect. So, obviously something is being reset?, I'm leaning toward a sensor or something, maybe the ignition module? I popped the dist cap off and everything looks good though.
Thanks for the quick responses guys, figured the "threat" of Chevy power would have prompted good help lol.
I'm all for putting a vacuum advance dist on the car, and would like to eliminate the computer if possible but what about the TQ converter lockup? Can the comp controlled carb even be properly used without being hooked up to a computer?
I have had clogged cats on vehicles before, not the case lol there are no cats. Like I said before, when I disconnect and reconnect the battery, everything is perfect. So, obviously something is being reset?, I'm leaning toward a sensor or something, maybe the ignition module? I popped the dist cap off and everything looks good though.
Thanks for the quick responses guys, figured the "threat" of Chevy power would have prompted good help lol.
Last edited by GetDown; December 30th, 2012 at 11:49 PM.
December 31st, 2012, 06:35 AM
#8
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 368
In no particular order;
1) Need to run the EGR valve when running on the computer. Hook it back up ASAP.
2) What is your base timing set at? Is it advancing when you increase the RPM's?
3) Engine running good when cold and then crappy once it's warmed up could mean multiple things. When it's running good when cold it could be because the computer's making your engine run richer ( this is normal ) and when it warms up and the computer starts to meter the fuel more efficiently ( leaner than before ), your engine doesn't like it for some reason. Could very well be a carb issue ( needs adjustment and/or rebuild ). At least check your dwell and your choke setting.
4) If the previous owner butchered up the wires, there's no telling what he could have buggered up without seeing it with my own eyes or without doing some testing. You might want to look into that a little deeper.
5) Don't want the computer anymore? Run a late model Qjet and cheapo 70's HEI and you're done. There are aftermarket lockup kits available or just not worry about it at all if you don't want to mess with it.
6) Edelbrock Performer intake will give you no additional power and from what others have experienced, they're not the 100% direct bolt on they're advertised as being as there are a couple clearance issues here and there. Better off with the stock aluminum A4 intake IMO. If you have a cast iron A4 and want an aluminum one, they are readily available for cheap. I got a very nice power coated one myself I don't need anymore if interested.
7) Your problems have absolutely nothing to do with the fact your engine's an Olds.
8) Chevy engines in Oldsmobiles are ultra lame. There's no need to be ultra lame.
9) Get a GM service manual.
1) Need to run the EGR valve when running on the computer. Hook it back up ASAP.
2) What is your base timing set at? Is it advancing when you increase the RPM's?
3) Engine running good when cold and then crappy once it's warmed up could mean multiple things. When it's running good when cold it could be because the computer's making your engine run richer ( this is normal ) and when it warms up and the computer starts to meter the fuel more efficiently ( leaner than before ), your engine doesn't like it for some reason. Could very well be a carb issue ( needs adjustment and/or rebuild ). At least check your dwell and your choke setting.
4) If the previous owner butchered up the wires, there's no telling what he could have buggered up without seeing it with my own eyes or without doing some testing. You might want to look into that a little deeper.
5) Don't want the computer anymore? Run a late model Qjet and cheapo 70's HEI and you're done. There are aftermarket lockup kits available or just not worry about it at all if you don't want to mess with it.
6) Edelbrock Performer intake will give you no additional power and from what others have experienced, they're not the 100% direct bolt on they're advertised as being as there are a couple clearance issues here and there. Better off with the stock aluminum A4 intake IMO. If you have a cast iron A4 and want an aluminum one, they are readily available for cheap. I got a very nice power coated one myself I don't need anymore if interested.
7) Your problems have absolutely nothing to do with the fact your engine's an Olds.
8) Chevy engines in Oldsmobiles are ultra lame. There's no need to be ultra lame.
9) Get a GM service manual.
December 31st, 2012, 08:23 AM
#9
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Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 11,798
DoubleV seemed to have summed it up nicely.
In my opinion, I think you should just go ahead and remove the computer stuff. Even after hooking up the EGR again, the lack of cats and your free flowing exhaust will not give the EGR valve the needed backpressure to operate correctly.
The carb and disty need to be replaced with non-computer parts. You can keep the emission junk in there and make it LOOK like its hooked up.
Keep all those parts in case you decide to return it back to computer, or maybe to sell off later.
From what I have heard, the 307 runs very well when de-computerized correctly.
In my opinion, I think you should just go ahead and remove the computer stuff. Even after hooking up the EGR again, the lack of cats and your free flowing exhaust will not give the EGR valve the needed backpressure to operate correctly.
The carb and disty need to be replaced with non-computer parts. You can keep the emission junk in there and make it LOOK like its hooked up.
Keep all those parts in case you decide to return it back to computer, or maybe to sell off later.
From what I have heard, the 307 runs very well when de-computerized correctly.
December 31st, 2012, 08:44 AM
#10
Seasoned beater pilot.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,468
Scoop up a new hei distributor on ebay for 50 bucks, and grab the carb from the chevy.
Those computer carbs will bankrupt you by the time you buy all of the new parts and try figuring it all out. Not worth it.
December 31st, 2012, 02:40 PM
#11
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Ok, thanks for the input ya'll. I guess I will start the hunt for a non computer Qjet or drop an extra holley 600 I have on there(don't really like it), with the Edelbrock manifold that I already have, fix the collapsed lifter or pushrod while it's apart, and get the vac advance distributor in there. I should be free of the computer at this point correct?
I'm a bit confused on how the lockup is affected anyway. I'm drawing a blank right now even though I should know this. Will it affect the stall speed, or highway driving?
Thanks again
I'm a bit confused on how the lockup is affected anyway. I'm drawing a blank right now even though I should know this. Will it affect the stall speed, or highway driving?
Thanks again
Last edited by GetDown; December 31st, 2012 at 02:43 PM.
December 31st, 2012, 03:36 PM
#12
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The lock up is controlled through the computer. You can use a toggle switch or a lock up kit. You will run 200 to 300 rpm more at highway speed plus create a bit more heat.
December 31st, 2012, 03:46 PM
#13
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December 31st, 2012, 08:19 PM
#14
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The converter should only lock up under light throttle cruising. If it is locking up at idle, you would know. It's a very common cause of stalling. There are aftermarket kits that control lockup. I believe the diesel Olds cars/trucks have a system you can cannibalize that doesn't require a computer. It would be much easier to check around Jegs or Summit.
This should work:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-376600
At this point, you've got a few things to deal with before you are free of the computer:
1. Cruise control. Cruise control is totally ECM-dependent on your car. You might be able to find an older system to retrofit, but it would be easier to go the aftermarket route here or do without. Of course, if you don't have it at all, you are ahead of the game.
2. A/C. There is a way to bypass the ECM, but I don't know what it is. I know some people have done it around here. It's not too hard to do. IIRC, it has something to do with bypassing a brown wire that cuts the compressor off at full throttle. You will need to search around this site.
3. While this isn't a computer issue per se, your transmission (if it's 200-4r), will cook itself without the TV cable. Critical, to say the least. Your 307 carb has the stub on the throttle bracket to control the TV cable. There are aftermarket kits for this, too.
What carbs do you have to choose from? The Holley with the right TV cable bracket could work fine for you. You will have to swap your intake or get spread to square bore adapter. Your best bet would be a Quadrajet from a 70s GM car. You might be able to snag one from a 77-79 Olds 403 car and it's very similar to the 307 carb. Find one in a junk yard or see if someone around here has one. Avoid the parts store remanufactured carbs. They are junk. You'd be better off with the Holley. Again, if you change carbs, you will need the TV cable bracket.
This should work:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-376600
At this point, you've got a few things to deal with before you are free of the computer:
1. Cruise control. Cruise control is totally ECM-dependent on your car. You might be able to find an older system to retrofit, but it would be easier to go the aftermarket route here or do without. Of course, if you don't have it at all, you are ahead of the game.
2. A/C. There is a way to bypass the ECM, but I don't know what it is. I know some people have done it around here. It's not too hard to do. IIRC, it has something to do with bypassing a brown wire that cuts the compressor off at full throttle. You will need to search around this site.
3. While this isn't a computer issue per se, your transmission (if it's 200-4r), will cook itself without the TV cable. Critical, to say the least. Your 307 carb has the stub on the throttle bracket to control the TV cable. There are aftermarket kits for this, too.
What carbs do you have to choose from? The Holley with the right TV cable bracket could work fine for you. You will have to swap your intake or get spread to square bore adapter. Your best bet would be a Quadrajet from a 70s GM car. You might be able to snag one from a 77-79 Olds 403 car and it's very similar to the 307 carb. Find one in a junk yard or see if someone around here has one. Avoid the parts store remanufactured carbs. They are junk. You'd be better off with the Holley. Again, if you change carbs, you will need the TV cable bracket.
Last edited by henryk8398; December 31st, 2012 at 08:25 PM.
December 31st, 2012, 09:04 PM
#15
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Location: central Indiana
Posts: 5,231
Don't swap a chebby into your Olds! Its far easier to make whats under the hood work than swap engines, if you need more get up and go swap in a 350 or 403! They are bolt in swaps, much easier than a chebby swap.
The cruise control is grounded thru the ecm harness under the dash on the passenger side. If you COMPLETELY remove the computer and harness you will need to ground that wire. At this point, a factory service manual would be a big help.
The A/C is controlled thru a relay that is controlled thru the ECM. its a very easy wiring change that needs to be made to get around the ecm. Once again, a factory manual will make it easy to understand.
If the car has been partially "brainwashed" by removing emissions crap, you either need to put things back the way its suppose to be, or finish the job and take the easier way and put on a non computer carb and distributor. Save the aftermarket intake for a bigger engine, the "mighty 307"doesn't need it and will probably not run any better.
The cruise control is grounded thru the ecm harness under the dash on the passenger side. If you COMPLETELY remove the computer and harness you will need to ground that wire. At this point, a factory service manual would be a big help.
The A/C is controlled thru a relay that is controlled thru the ECM. its a very easy wiring change that needs to be made to get around the ecm. Once again, a factory manual will make it easy to understand.
If the car has been partially "brainwashed" by removing emissions crap, you either need to put things back the way its suppose to be, or finish the job and take the easier way and put on a non computer carb and distributor. Save the aftermarket intake for a bigger engine, the "mighty 307
"doesn't need it and will probably not run any better.
December 31st, 2012, 09:35 PM
#16
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 41
The cruise control is grounded thru the ecm harness under the dash on the passenger side. If you COMPLETELY remove the computer and harness you will need to ground that wire. At this point, a factory service manual would be a big help.
The A/C is controlled thru a relay that is controlled thru the ECM. its a very easy wiring change that needs to be made to get around the ecm. Once again, a factory manual will make it easy to understand.
\Save the aftermarket intake for a bigger engine, the "mighty 307
"doesn't need it and will probably not run any better.
December 31st, 2012, 09:41 PM
#17
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 41
The converter should only lock up under light throttle cruising. If it is locking up at idle, you would know. It's a very common cause of stalling. There are aftermarket kits that control lockup. I believe the diesel Olds cars/trucks have a system you can cannibalize that doesn't require a computer. It would be much easier to check around Jegs or Summit.
This should work:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-376600
At this point, you've got a few things to deal with before you are free of the computer:
1. Cruise control. Cruise control is totally ECM-dependent on your car. You might be able to find an older system to retrofit, but it would be easier to go the aftermarket route here or do without. Of course, if you don't have it at all, you are ahead of the game.
2. A/C. There is a way to bypass the ECM, but I don't know what it is. I know some people have done it around here. It's not too hard to do. IIRC, it has something to do with bypassing a brown wire that cuts the compressor off at full throttle. You will need to search around this site.
3. While this isn't a computer issue per se, your transmission (if it's 200-4r), will cook itself without the TV cable. Critical, to say the least. Your 307 carb has the stub on the throttle bracket to control the TV cable. There are aftermarket kits for this, too.
What carbs do you have to choose from? The Holley with the right TV cable bracket could work fine for you. You will have to swap your intake or get spread to square bore adapter. Your best bet would be a Quadrajet from a 70s GM car. You might be able to snag one from a 77-79 Olds 403 car and it's very similar to the 307 carb. Find one in a junk yard or see if someone around here has one. Avoid the parts store remanufactured carbs. They are junk. You'd be better off with the Holley. Again, if you change carbs, you will need the TV cable bracket.
This should work:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-376600
At this point, you've got a few things to deal with before you are free of the computer:
1. Cruise control. Cruise control is totally ECM-dependent on your car. You might be able to find an older system to retrofit, but it would be easier to go the aftermarket route here or do without. Of course, if you don't have it at all, you are ahead of the game.
2. A/C. There is a way to bypass the ECM, but I don't know what it is. I know some people have done it around here. It's not too hard to do. IIRC, it has something to do with bypassing a brown wire that cuts the compressor off at full throttle. You will need to search around this site.
3. While this isn't a computer issue per se, your transmission (if it's 200-4r), will cook itself without the TV cable. Critical, to say the least. Your 307 carb has the stub on the throttle bracket to control the TV cable. There are aftermarket kits for this, too.
What carbs do you have to choose from? The Holley with the right TV cable bracket could work fine for you. You will have to swap your intake or get spread to square bore adapter. Your best bet would be a Quadrajet from a 70s GM car. You might be able to snag one from a 77-79 Olds 403 car and it's very similar to the 307 carb. Find one in a junk yard or see if someone around here has one. Avoid the parts store remanufactured carbs. They are junk. You'd be better off with the Holley. Again, if you change carbs, you will need the TV cable bracket.
Last edited by GetDown; December 31st, 2012 at 09:49 PM.
December 31st, 2012, 09:43 PM
#18
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 41
If I just drop in a vac advance dist with another carb, what's stopping me form just keeping the computer hooked up in there? Would the lockup and A/C function still?
Very helpful guys! Thanks
Very helpful guys! Thanks
December 31st, 2012, 09:58 PM
#19
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Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 11,798
I am ~thinking~ someone on this forum had a great way to make the lockup work, as most of the kits out there did not work that well. Lemme see if I can find that thread.
January 1st, 2013, 02:12 PM
#21
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Posts: 608
The tranny is a 3 speed so no 2004r I guess, the kickdown cable is there. Same thing as TV?. Like I wrote previously, no cruise control, and the A/C is def important, but the last of the worries right now. I don't know what holley I have, it's at a friend's house and I just sold another holley p-80 to a guy for $50, but whatever. I would like to keep it Q-jet just because I like the way they are designed and perform.
Check this link out:
http://www.maliburacing.com/auto_tranny_id.htm
Take a look at your trans pan and you'll know what you have.
Again, the TV cable and kickdown cable are different animals. They look similar and are often confused. The kickdown cable does just that. You could drive around indefinitely without one. You would have to manually downshift, that's all. The TV cable does a lot more. Read this:
http://www.cpttransmission.com/tech_tvcable.htm
January 1st, 2013, 11:54 PM
#22
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 41
Good reads, thanks. So I'm assuming I have a 200c being as I only have 3 gears, and the cable appears to be just a kickdown, not like those I have dealt with on 700r4's. It just popped into my head as well that I have a couple th350's sitting that I could swap out, If the lockup converter becomes an issue or something.
Anyway, I will try to get under the car tomorrow to confirm, and I'm trying to get a price on a new distributor from the local Horsepower Sales instead of ordering through Summit, so I can get the process of deleting the computer started.
On a side note, I found a local guy selling a pre 76' Olds 350 that I might get my hands on and get my first Olds motor build started. Regardless, the 307 has to work for now, as I have other pertinent issues with the car like taking care of a rust hole under the rear cowl area and getting the vinyl top re-done. Pictures soon...
Anyway, I will try to get under the car tomorrow to confirm, and I'm trying to get a price on a new distributor from the local Horsepower Sales instead of ordering through Summit, so I can get the process of deleting the computer started.
On a side note, I found a local guy selling a pre 76' Olds 350 that I might get my hands on and get my first Olds motor build started. Regardless, the 307 has to work for now, as I have other pertinent issues with the car like taking care of a rust hole under the rear cowl area and getting the vinyl top re-done. Pictures soon...
January 2nd, 2013, 12:06 AM
#23
Seasoned beater pilot.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,468
January 2nd, 2013, 12:14 AM
#24
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 41
Thanks for the heads up, just added to the agenda for tomorrow! I also found out that the back windshield is loose which probably has something to do with the rust under the driver side of the rear cowl. Other than that, some little holes on the top rear edge of the trunklid, and some blemishes on the doors, the car is very solid! I'm happy to have a project without flinstone floors for once.
January 2nd, 2013, 08:01 AM
#25
Out of Line, Everytime😉
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melville, Saskatchewan
Posts: 8,906
If you have TH200C the cable works exactly like a 700r4. Too loose and kiss your trans goodbye. It could also be a TH250C or TH350C. Both are better than the TH200C, just see if it says metric on the pan. Just don't put too much power to a TH250C or it dies, trust me. Mine did last many miles behind a 307 though.
January 2nd, 2013, 03:56 PM
#26
The Carb, dist, and O2 sensor are the only things that are left on my car that are ECU controlled. I afraid to take them off because I think the have a part in the convertor lock up and I do not want to spend $100 on the vacuum kit for this trans, when this trans will be replaced when the 330 goes in. I do still have an EGR, I think.
My AIR tubes are in place, but not hooked up to the cat. I bought 8 1/4 inch pipe plugs and they will be going in, when I have the time. My AIR pump is still in place
My AIR tubes are in place, but not hooked up to the cat. I bought 8 1/4 inch pipe plugs and they will be going in, when I have the time. My AIR pump is still in place
January 5th, 2013, 10:15 PM
#29
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Location: South Florida
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Drove it to work tonight... driving horrible I'm thinking the converter is already being affected by whatever is going on. Really getting tired of this BS, wish there was a local complete olds motor non-computer available.
After scouring the junkyards yesterday all I could come up with was an 83 cutlass with a vac advance distributor with the cap busted off of it from hitting the firewall. Insides slightly corroded, but I'm gonna go back tomorrow to ****** it out anyway. Shouldn't be more than $15.
On a terrible note... after trying to get in touch with the local Horsepower Sales all week, I talked to a friend who informed me that the owner died! Buddy was extremely helpful and had great prices and a good machine shop. Very unfortunate, I guess he died shortly after rebuilding a carb for me earlier last year. RIP
After scouring the junkyards yesterday all I could come up with was an 83 cutlass with a vac advance distributor with the cap busted off of it from hitting the firewall. Insides slightly corroded, but I'm gonna go back tomorrow to ****** it out anyway. Shouldn't be more than $15.
On a terrible note... after trying to get in touch with the local Horsepower Sales all week, I talked to a friend who informed me that the owner died! Buddy was extremely helpful and had great prices and a good machine shop. Very unfortunate, I guess he died shortly after rebuilding a carb for me earlier last year. RIP
January 5th, 2013, 10:23 PM
#30
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 41
ok just found this... http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/pts/3516371198.html
January 5th, 2013, 10:28 PM
#31
" Hoo yah "
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Park,IL
Posts: 406
Drove it to work tonight... driving horrible I'm thinking the converter is already being affected by whatever is going on. Really getting tired of this BS, wish there was a local complete olds motor non-computer available.
After scouring the junkyards yesterday all I could come up with was an 83 cutlass with a vac advance distributor with the cap busted off of it from hitting the firewall. Insides slightly corroded, but I'm gonna go back tomorrow to ****** it out anyway. Shouldn't be more than $15.
On a terrible note... after trying to get in touch with the local Horsepower Sales all week, I talked to a friend who informed me that the owner died! Buddy was extremely helpful and had great prices and a good machine shop. Very unfortunate, I guess he died shortly after rebuilding a carb for me earlier last year. RIP
After scouring the junkyards yesterday all I could come up with was an 83 cutlass with a vac advance distributor with the cap busted off of it from hitting the firewall. Insides slightly corroded, but I'm gonna go back tomorrow to ****** it out anyway. Shouldn't be more than $15.
On a terrible note... after trying to get in touch with the local Horsepower Sales all week, I talked to a friend who informed me that the owner died! Buddy was extremely helpful and had great prices and a good machine shop. Very unfortunate, I guess he died shortly after rebuilding a carb for me earlier last year. RIP
http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/boa/3470481799.html
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/pts/3457029337.html
January 5th, 2013, 10:52 PM
#32
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 368
Really getting tired of this BS, wish there was a local complete olds motor non-computer available.
If possible, some pics of your engine might help us identify some of the more obvious problems.
January 5th, 2013, 11:40 PM
#33
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Thanks! But, no big block for me.
I really doubt it's timing, like I stated in my first post... If the battery is disconnected, and then reconnected, the car runs flawlessly(idles great, accelerates great, shifts, sounds good, everything is perfect) after running for 5-10 minutes when I come to a stop the engine will suddenly drop rpm's by a few hundred(im guessing), and if I try to accelerate normally afterward the car will backfire, sputter, stall out etc. At that point the motor sounds like straight sh*t and wants to just stall.
It's obviously an electrical(computer) issue because I can disconnect the battery and re-connect it 1 second later and all the issues are gone, for another 5-10 minutes. I feel the converter might be affected because as I was pulling into the gas station tonight, the car felt like it was slipping into neutral or as if I had a huge stall converter in the trans.
I really doubt it's timing, like I stated in my first post... If the battery is disconnected, and then reconnected, the car runs flawlessly(idles great, accelerates great, shifts, sounds good, everything is perfect) after running for 5-10 minutes when I come to a stop the engine will suddenly drop rpm's by a few hundred(im guessing), and if I try to accelerate normally afterward the car will backfire, sputter, stall out etc. At that point the motor sounds like straight sh*t and wants to just stall.
It's obviously an electrical(computer) issue because I can disconnect the battery and re-connect it 1 second later and all the issues are gone, for another 5-10 minutes. I feel the converter might be affected because as I was pulling into the gas station tonight, the car felt like it was slipping into neutral or as if I had a huge stall converter in the trans.
January 6th, 2013, 07:57 AM
#35
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 368
Thanks! But, no big block for me.
I really doubt it's timing, like I stated in my first post... If the battery is disconnected, and then reconnected, the car runs flawlessly(idles great, accelerates great, shifts, sounds good, everything is perfect) after running for 5-10 minutes when I come to a stop the engine will suddenly drop rpm's by a few hundred(im guessing), and if I try to accelerate normally afterward the car will backfire, sputter, stall out etc. At that point the motor sounds like straight sh*t and wants to just stall.
It's obviously an electrical(computer) issue because I can disconnect the battery and re-connect it 1 second later and all the issues are gone, for another 5-10 minutes. I feel the converter might be affected because as I was pulling into the gas station tonight, the car felt like it was slipping into neutral or as if I had a huge stall converter in the trans.
I really doubt it's timing, like I stated in my first post... If the battery is disconnected, and then reconnected, the car runs flawlessly(idles great, accelerates great, shifts, sounds good, everything is perfect) after running for 5-10 minutes when I come to a stop the engine will suddenly drop rpm's by a few hundred(im guessing), and if I try to accelerate normally afterward the car will backfire, sputter, stall out etc. At that point the motor sounds like straight sh*t and wants to just stall.
It's obviously an electrical(computer) issue because I can disconnect the battery and re-connect it 1 second later and all the issues are gone, for another 5-10 minutes. I feel the converter might be affected because as I was pulling into the gas station tonight, the car felt like it was slipping into neutral or as if I had a huge stall converter in the trans.
So yeah, I say since it's free and stupid easy, check your base timing. Then see if it's advancing when the RPM's increase. Then when your car starts running like sh*t check it again to see if anything changed.
Whatever problem you seem to be having with your converter slipping sounds like a completely unrelated problem to me.
You can speculate all you want, but in the end you're going to have to actually check some things out for yourself to find out for sure. A service manual comes in very handy for this.
Are you able to provide any engine pics?
January 6th, 2013, 09:24 AM
#36
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Location: South Florida
Posts: 41
I can put up some engine pics but I've already decided to just circumvent the computer all together. That's also what it seems like when it running like crap, that the timing is not advancing, and I bet you're right about other issues.
January 6th, 2013, 03:47 PM
#37
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Location: Poteau, Ok
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I think the computer is doing what it's supposed to do based on the inputs it's getting. You have to figure out how to change what it's looking at to get a better end result. I think it's the ol garbage in garbage out subroutine.
January 6th, 2013, 10:36 PM
#40
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Location: South Florida
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The SBC option is looking more probable and realistic for me at this point, honestly. I have good money into a motor with less than 1000 miles on it with extra parts that haven't been used and it's sitting there taking up space.
I found a sticker under the hood of the delta that had fallen off something but it says "Keep your GM car all GM". I guess that is subject to one's interpretation.
