Marcel73

About a half a year ago i bought a Oldsmobile 98 Regency Sedan 350 4BBL. My license plate and Vinnumber (Stamped in Chassis) says the car was build in 1973. I already knew this was a 1977 model. But...because the car has passed MOT for the last 30 years, nobody including the goverment never made an issue about this.
When i went to the garage vor the new MOT, the chassisnumber (VIN) wasn`t completely readable. The last digit has faded a bit so i was sent to RDW (Dutch MOT Officers). They declared my car could not be identified as a 1973 model so they took my car papers. Now i have 4 weeks time to figure out what the original VIN number was. If i`m able to find out what the VIN number is, they will stamp in a new Chassisnumber an give me a new licensplate. I have the Fisher Tag plate, the engine and gearbox VIN. I really need to know how to retrieve the original VIN number if possible. Any help would be very much appriciaded.

Kind regards,
Marcel

MDchanic

So, what is the VIN you have?

Might you show us a picture of it?

Also, there are confidential VINs stamped all over that car, like spots on a fire dog, so I don't fully understand the problem.

- Eric

Marcel73

Hi Eric,
One of the former owners has removed the VIN plate on the dash behind the front window and the doorpanel. Here in Holland the VIN number must be stamped in a non-detachable part. The VIN i have is for a 1973 ninety eight. It has been stamped in the chassis by hand. Until 1998 you were allowed over here to stamp a chassisnumber on the chassis when there is an official standing beside you from the customers (Douane).
As far as i found out...there are 2 places where the VIN number should be found.

-1. on the dash behind the front window
-2. on the left doorpanel

I wil make some pictures in the evening. If there are other places on the car where i can find the VIN numbers....please let me know where.

Thanks,
Marcel

Marcel73

Just to clearify about what happened...
Someone has used the ID of another car in the past. Probably for roadtax issues or totall-loss. I think there are many reasons about why this car received another ID. If i can retrieve the original VIN that will match the bodynumber and the Engine number, the officials will stamp the original VIN number and give me a new license plate.

Marcel73

Finally i`m a few staps forward.

My engine castingnumber is 557265-4B 554990 (1977-1979 403ci).
Fisher Bodyplate:

ST77 3CX69 E256961 BDY
R 642 AM6 29L 22T PN
67C A43 A90 C09
DF3 11 0599

My VIN number should start with 3X69R7E1..... (If i`m correct)
Where can i find the serialnumber stamped in the engine or other part or place?


Can someone tell me if i am hedding towards the right direction?

Thanks,
Marcel

MDchanic

Okay, Marcel, first, here in the US (and things may be different over in the Netherlands) we would say that what you have is a stolen car.
Its identification numbers have been obliterated, and replaced with one from a different car.
Having a vehicle (or a firearm) with an obliterated serial number is a crime. If you were discovered driving a car like that here, you might be arrested.

Second, by 1977 there were confidential VINs stamped all over that car.
I have checked on line, but have not been able to find a listing of locations.
You need to find somebody who has completely disassembled one or more of these cars, and they'll remember some places where they've seen them.
In general, there will be at least one on every major component (doors, hood, fenders, body sub-assemblies). Places you are likely to find one would be on the frame more or less under the location of the driver's seat (could be on the top edge of the frame), inside of the doors, stamped on the supporting structure, and underneath the trunk, visible with the gas tank removed.
As I said, the best bet is to talk to someone who has actually taken these apart.

If your engine is original, it should have a VIN derivative stamped on the driver's (left) side, as illustrated below:



Yes, it sounds like you're headed in the right direction, but remember, the Fisher Body plate does NOT have the VIN on it.

- Eric

Marcel73

Hi Eric,

Thanks for your help. The first thing i am going to do after i retrieved the correct VIN number is tracking it by our officials. If the car isn`t stolen, cloned or destroyd, i`ll get a new license plate, papers and a correct chassisnumber stamped in the chassis with a Dutch government trackingcode. There is a very big chance the car has been exported from the US to Europe without title for parts. That means the car has been cleared of all VIN numbers for parts selling purposes. That would be most common.
There is a very large group of american car enthousiasts over here in Holland and they import al very large number of parts, wrecks, etc.
I already lost my Dutch VIN papers to our local government because the papers don`t match with the year of this car. Luckaly they didn`t took the car. Now i have 4 weeks to retrieve the original VIN number. If i`m not able to do this, i would have to let the chassis destroy by the police and an investigation will take place to find out who`s responsible for this mess.
I`ll keep you posted.

MDchanic

It's always a potential adventure over here registering an untitled vehicle, too.

Legally, all I need in my state is a written bill of sale from the previous owner, but the state doesn't provide a title for a month, during which time they (theoretically) check to be sure that the car is legitimate. If it isn't they will not give me a title, and, presumably, will come to my house with a tow truck and papers from an insurance company that paid for a stolen car years ago, and now wants their car back.

A few years ago, I read about a guy who got his Corvette back forty years after it was stolen (NYT 1/17/06), because US Customs checked the VIN on a car about to be exported to Sweden.
I'm not sure whether he or the guy who thought he owned the car was more surprised.

I've never had a problem, but there's always that small chance...

- Eric

Rickman48

I don't know if it applies to a big Olds, but we found the VIN stamped in the firewall, under the heater box, on a '70 Chevelle.
About 3/4" letters and numbers - couldn't miss it!

MDchanic

Now that you mention it, when I had the heater box off my '70 Chevelle, in 1981, there was a number there. I didn't notice whether it was the VIN (too busy installing A/C on my "originally LS-6" car, 'cause the factory had refused to when someone else had bought it in 1970 - I installed power steering, too, and threw out that stupid manual steering box - ah, for those carefree days...).

- Eric

442much

Marcel, there should be stamping on the transmission as well. Did you check that? If so give us the number.

Marcel73

Hi Ken, Eric,

Next Saterday i`ll be in my garage to lookup the stamped numbers on my tranny, engine and firewall. Many thanks so far.

I`ll keep you all posted.

Marcel

copper128

Marcel, here in the States, there is an organization which works closely with the police and government to detect and prevent auto theft. The NICB has investigators who know exactly how to pinpoint all of the confidential VIN locations on any given vehicle. They publish a manual which, for obvious reasons is not available to the public, but I would suggest you try contacting them and ask for help identifying your car.
https://www.nicb.org/home

I'd suggest contacting the head of their Field Operations unit:
James Schweitzer
Chief Operating Officer
Phone: 847-544-7040
Email: jschweitzer@nicb.org

Marcel73

Thanks Copper, i will send them An email with all the daitails i have about my (hopefully my) car. I'll keep you posted.
Regards,
Marcel

Marcel73

Could it be this: 3X69R7E881373? The last 6 digits i have read from the engine. The first i'm not sure about. Tomorrow i can post the photo. The colourcode is correct for the interior as the body. Body is blue and interior is creme lether.

J-(Chicago)

That is not it. That decodes as a 350ci engine, not a 403ci engine. You have a letter incorrect. Most likely the "R" If I remember correctly, letter R is for the 350 motor, and letter Y is for the 307 motor I'm not sure what the 350 diesel or the 403 motor codes were.


The Postwar Oldsmobile VIN Decoder 1946-1997
3X69R7E881373

Year: 1977
Division: Oldsmobile
Series: Ninety-Eight Regency
Body: Town Sedan (4 door pillar)
Engine: 350 (5.7) V8 4BBL
Plant: Linden, New Jersey
Serial Number: 881373

MDchanic

And, for those out there not familiar with it:

The Postwar Oldsmobile VIN Decoder

- Eric

ThePackRat

350 Diesel - N

K - 403.

AZ455

Looks like he found it...

Except for this...

Transplant maybe?

Marcel73

Got it...
3X69K7E881373 should be it considdering i have a 403 petrol engine.
This car is not listed as stolen. I only need to find out if this car was exported or brought to a salvage yard. If so...the chances grow bigger for me. Within 1 hour i`ll have posted the photo of my engine number and transmission tag.
I`ll really appriciate the help i got from everyone...thans big time.

Marcel73

The photos of the engine numbers and tranny tag are posted in my album.

MDchanic

The number on the transmission tag is the transmission unit number, not the VIN derivative. Check here for where to look for the VIN derivative on the transmission - it should contain the last six digits of the VIN, and be the same as the VIN derivative on the engine.

I'm sorry, I really can't read the engine number that you posted, but it IS the right stamping in the right location.

- Eric

Marcel73

Whoah...i will have to crawl under the car again. There would be no place to hide anymore. If i`m lost...everybody will know where to find me

J-(Chicago)

The vin number for the frame will be on the large horizontal frame support between the shock and spring perches. I doubt you will be able to retrieve it without pulling the gas tank out however.

MDchanic

Facing down, so he can read it from underneath the car, J?

Rickman48

I saw a 67 442 over the weekend, in the process of a body-off.
Did not have the cowl stamp under the heater box, but it was about 110 degrees Sat. AM, and didn't look further.
Anyone else seen one on an Olds??
Or know when they started it??

J-(Chicago)

No, it's in a real pain in the *** spot. He would most likely have to drop the tank to get to it.
Here's a pic with an arrow.

Junkman

From memory, the 1967 mic sized cars had the serial number stamped into the top of the cowl, under the cowl screen, just to the right of center.