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The 64 98 I owned had the reverberation radio option and the autronic eye to automatically dim the headlights. I'm not sure how rare they were though.
Looking at the equipment list Jaunty posted, I'll add the power door locks and AM-FM radio. You don't see those much either.
I think the single rarest 1964 option for any series has to be the N31 Custom Deluxe woodgrain steering wheel. The colors are especially uncommon. I paid close to $500 for a black one twenty years ago. I think BeenThere had a decent blue one a while back. I don't remember ever seeing a green or saddle one.
I wonder what that heavy duty transmission option included? Come to think of it my 64 98 had the power windows too. It was never as nice as my 71 98 though.
AM/FM radio was pretty rare since there were few FM stations in 64.
Not only this, but look at the price of the AM/FM radio, $150. Only air-conditioning was more expensive. Even the base AM radio was pricey at nearly $90.
I wonder what that heavy duty transmission option included? Come to think of it my 64 98 had the power windows too. It was never as nice as my 71 98 though.
According to my original literature it contained high temperature gaskets a stronger clutch and something to do with gear shifting timing but I’d have to go look at the original book.
Looking at the equipment list Jaunty posted, I'll add the power door locks and AM-FM radio. You don't see those much either.
I think the single rarest 1964 option for any series has to be the N31 Custom Deluxe woodgrain steering wheel. The colors are especially uncommon. I paid close to $500 for a black one twenty years ago. I think BeenThere had a decent blue one a while back. I don't remember ever seeing a green or saddle one.
have you ever seen the power door locks or woodgrain steering wheel in person or online? I’ve tried to look for photos of them before but it’s almost an urban myth at this point. I have a 1964 98 and I’ve spent hours trying to research everything on this car and still haven’t found anything. If you had any pictures or a source that would be greatly appreciated
And here's a derelict 1964 Luxury Sedan with power locks. Look at the front edge of the door panel ahead of the vent window crank and you'll see the vacuum switch. There's one on each front door on cars so equipped and each switch operates all door locks.
I found only two pictures of a power lock car. This one, and a gorgeous Custom Sports Coupe that for whatever reason wouldn't upload to CO. So that oughta give you an idea how uncommon power locks were back then, even on GM's luxury cars.
Rarity, complexity and being a bitch to install would discourage most people from trying to add them. Young buck, are you most people?🙂
And here's a derelict 1964 Luxury Sedan with power locks. Look at the front edge of the door panel ahead of the vent window crank and you'll see the vacuum switch. There's one on each front door on cars so equipped and each switch operates all door locks.
I found only two pictures of a power lock car. This one, and a gorgeous Custom Sports Coupe that for whatever reason wouldn't upload to CO. So that oughta give you an idea how uncommon power locks were back then, even on GM's luxury cars.
Rarity, complexity and being a bitch to install would discourage most people from trying to add them. Young buck, are you most people?🙂
Id love to be able to install them, but the biggest issue for me would just be finding the parts. I’m sure it’d be crazy expensive too. I’m only 17 so I can’t really afford crazy prices. Just trying to see what I would need to add if I ever wanted to make it a truly “fully loaded” car.
I have pretty much every option possible I think besides the custom steering wheel, vacuum locks, floor mats(which I’m in the process of trying to get all sets), and the N93 hubcaps.
Vacuum locks would be available on convertible models correct? Or were they a sedan only option.. not sure.. thank you
Speaking of which, has anyone ever seen a set of OEM rear auxiliary floormats? I know it was an option but I have never seen a set once in all my searching. Only ever the front 2.
My green 64 Starfire coupe has factory mats front and rear. Some may ask why a Starfire with its sewn-in vinyl mats would have them, but I'm 3d owner and 2d owner said they were in the car when he bought it from original owner in 1967.
The vacuum power door locks were available on all 1964 Oldsmobile B and C body styles. I think the vacuum cylinders in the doors might be the hardest thing to locate. The octopus valve, switches, and vacuum hoses are probably the same 1963-69 but the door cylinders from a later car may not work on the 64 doors. I think 64 doors have drill dimples on the door structure below the latch.
There's only scant information on the vacuum locks in the 1964 CSM but look thru the power locks section and decide if you want to go thru the hassle of installing them. The 65 Body Manual goes into a lot of detail (12 pages worth).
IDK, a 17-year-old should be able to fold himself up to get behind the dash to access the octopus valve, and then unfold himself again! How tall are you, young'un?
My green 64 Starfire coupe has factory mats front and rear. Some may ask why a Starfire with its sewn-in vinyl mats would have them, but I'm 3d owner and 2d owner said they were in the car when he bought it from original owner in 1967.
The vacuum power door locks were available on all 1964 Oldsmobile B and C body styles. I think the vacuum cylinders in the doors might be the hardest thing to locate. The octopus valve, switches, and vacuum hoses are probably the same 1963-69 but the door cylinders from a later car may not work on the 64 doors. I think 64 doors have drill dimples on the door structure below the latch.
There's only scant information on the vacuum locks in the 1964 CSM but look thru the power locks section and decide if you want to go thru the hassle of installing them. The 65 Body Manual goes into a lot of detail (12 pages worth).
IDK, a 17-year-old should be able to fold himself up to get behind the dash to access the octopus valve, and then unfold himself again! How tall are you, young'un?
im about 5’7”. What is the octopus valve you talk about? Is that one of the AC unit valves? I’m quite familiar with cramming under the dash, I had to rewire my car with a kit designed for a 70s GM since they don’t make anything for OLDS. Luckily I’m skinny too so I can work in cramped places. I’ll have to check the service manual soon. They haven’t been a lot of help for the accessories, it basically told me nothing when I repaired my guide matic system…
If possible could I get a picture of both your front and rear auxiliary mats? Just to make sure I know what to look for in the future.
Here are screenshots from the 1965 body manual. The octopus valve is technically called "remote control valve" but with its multiple ports and vacuum lines it looks like an octopus' tentacles.
I had a full set of vinyl floor mats in my 64 98. I'm interested to see the picture posted of @rocketraider floormats. I found the set in a 63/64 Dynamic 88 so I have no idea if they were correct for the car.
As I recall, they were a fair set of brown floor mats. I tried to change the color to black with paint and leather/vinyl polish but it never worked too well. I'll have to dig to see if I have some pics.
Here's a nice '64 Ninety-Eight on ebay. It has power windows, power antenna, AM/FM radio, rear seat speaker with reverberator, air conditioning, rear window defroster, clock, remote control driver's mirror, tachometer, center console. It doesn't have everything, but it's certainly well-equipped.
According to my original literature it contained high temperature gaskets a stronger clutch and something to do with gear shifting timing but I’d have to go look at the original book.
Over the Roto HydraMatic's four-year usage, there were NINE valve body revisions. That's not counting the ones Hurst Performance came up with to get best performance when someone installed a 1st generation Dual/Gate floor shifter in a Starfire, Jetstar 1, Ninety Eight CSC or Grand Prix.
Hurst's research probably did the best job in turning the sloppy RHM into a heavy duty performance oriented transmission.
I was never a Buick Dynaflow fan but I have to give it to Buick. Their experiments with two and three element torque converters and variable vane angle converters led to the Turbo HydraMatic, which gave the best of both worlds. Torque multiplying converter combined with a transmission that actually shifted. GM finally caught up with Chrysler!😄
The 64 98 linked by Jaunty is a 4 window. Mine was a 6 window. I believe the 6 window was referred to as a Luxury Sedan. I don't know if the extra windows were an option or separate car?
A six window 1964 Ninety Eight with no B post is a Luxury Sedan. One with a B post and door window frames is a Town Sedan. Two different Fisher body codes.
The car Jaunty linked to is a Ninety Eight Custom Sports Coupe. A Starfire in a white dinner jacket in other words.
Look at the door panels and you'll see the power door lock switches ahead of the vent cranks. Odd that car has power locks, but not power vent windows.
A six window 1964 Ninety Eight with no B post is a Luxury Sedan. One with a B post and door window frames is a Town Sedan. Two different Fisher body codes.
thank you for the pictures!!! That’ll help a ton when trying to find parts. Got any possible leads on where I could find any? Or should I just wait and cross my fingers that someone posts a set on eBay. Same thing with the vacuum locks, I couldn’t find any parts on eBay. Maybe I was looking up the wrong number
The car Jaunty linked to is a Ninety Eight Custom Sports Coupe. A Starfire in a white dinner jacket in other words.
Look at the door panels and you'll see the power door lock switches ahead of the vent cranks. Odd that car has power locks, but not power vent windows.
My guess is that it was a family car. Looking at the options, such as Ac, All audio improvements (rear speaker, pwr ant. Reverbatron), rear defrost, power locks, seems like it drove the family around a lot. Could explain the locks (kids) and ac + best audio (enjoyment). also the floormats (kids are dirty) and rear defrost (convince for the family) also explains the reason of the remote control side mirror option.
It’s missing more of the niche luxury options like guide matic, power vent, and cruise control. My car was originally owned by a very wealthy man from Georgia apparently, and you can tell by how it was optioned out. Purely for luxury, skipped out on many of the options pertaining to the family.
Given the CSC's place in the 1963-64 Oldsmobile sales hierarchy I have to disagree. It was marketed to successful young business and professional men and women, upper middle class and probably without kids, who wanted the elegance of a Ninety Eight coupled with the style and performance of a Starfire.
1963-64 hierarchy:
1) Starfire convertible
2) Ninety Eight Custom Sports Coupe
3) Ninety Eight convertible
4) Starfire coupe
Everything else ranked under those four, which were Oldsmobile's glamour cars.
Fully optioned cars were the exception back then rather than the norm. A lot of the gadgets were viewed as possible trouble and others, like Cruise Control, made no sense for an owner who did little or no long-distance highway driving.
You mentioned the N93/N94 cast aluminum wheelcovers. You're aware those require a special wheel? Someone had a 1965 set for sale on here a couple days ago, rough as a cob. You have to have the 1964 Ninety Eight/Super 88 N94 version with the dished centercaps, as the N93 1964 Starfire/Jetstar 1 and 1965 two-bar spinner centercaps will barely clear the 1964 Ninety Eight's skirts. Fender skirt clearance was why the simulated wire wheelcovers were also N/A for Ninety Eight.
Your car was sold new in Georgia? Probably at either Ed Voyles Oldsmobile or Mitchell Motors in Atlanta. Where are you, if you don't mind me asking?
Given the CSC's place in the 1963-64 Oldsmobile sales hierarchy I have to disagree. It was marketed to successful young business and professional men and women, upper middle class and probably without kids, who wanted the elegance of a Ninety Eight coupled with the style and performance of a Starfire.
1963-64 hierarchy:
1) Starfire convertible
2) Ninety Eight Custom Sports Coupe
3) Ninety Eight convertible
4) Starfire coupe
Everything else ranked under those four, which were Oldsmobile's glamour cars.
Fully optioned cars were the exception back then rather than the norm. A lot of the gadgets were viewed as possible trouble and others, like Cruise Control, made no sense for an owner who did little or no long-distance highway driving.
You mentioned the N93/N94 cast aluminum wheelcovers. You're aware those require a special wheel? Someone had a 1965 set for sale on here a couple days ago, rough as a cob. You have to have the 1964 Ninety Eight/Super 88 N94 version with the dished centercaps, as the N93 1964 Starfire/Jetstar 1 and 1965 two-bar spinner centercaps will barely clear the 1964 Ninety Eight's skirts. Fender skirt clearance was why the simulated wire wheelcovers were also N/A for Ninety Eight.
Your car was sold new in Georgia? Probably at either Ed Voyles Oldsmobile or Mitchell Motors in Atlanta. Where are you, if you don't mind me asking?
What makes the star fire convertible ranked higher than the 98 convertible if you don’t mind me asking? Did it come with more features than the 98 convertible? I always thought the 98s were marketed as the crème of the crop of Oldsmobiles and Star fires were right below.
I am aware of the special rims required for those hubcaps, I’ve been doing a bit of research into possibly buying some. There’s a set for sale in New York for about 350. The only thing is honestly I think the custom deluxe hubcaps look a little ugly. I prefer the custom much more, I would only try to collect a set just for the rarity they have and it’s a cool thing to show off at car shows.
I am located in Madison Wi, I bought the car last year In Milwaukee as a non driving hulk. I’ll post pictures of it tomorrow If I get the opportunity. It’s a 1964 98 convertible. forest green interior with white exterior. Story goes according to the last owner (who bought it in 1971) that the original owner was driving it up from Georgia for a vacation, it had some sort of issue at the gas station, so the owner dumped it there and bought another car from another person right on the spot. In cash. Car apparently sat for a bit, until the 2nd owner bought it. So the original owner probably only owned it for around 3 years. 2nd owner rebuilt the engine at some point and then let the car sit for about another 40 years. Then I bought it. Been restoring it to its former glory ever since. Despite almost living entirely in the rust belt the frame and floor pans have not a spec of rust on them. Only rust present is a bit by the rear quarter panels.
That’ll help a ton when trying to find parts. Got any possible leads on where I could find any? Or should I just wait and cross my fingers that someone posts a set on eBay. Same thing with the vacuum locks, I couldn’t find any parts on eBay. Maybe I was looking up the wrong number
I think you'll be looking for the next 20 years for these parts.
Any floormats you find are likely to be well used and won't look anything like what's in the photos above. Unless you're very lucky and find someone selling an unused set, in which case they'll probably want $500 for them.
For the vacuum lock actuators, again, NOS will be impossible to find or will cost a small fortune when you do. If you can find some on a parts car, you might get lucky and they'll work. or more likely they'll need to be rebuilt. I know it's nice to add these options, but, on the other hand, it's also nice to keep the car original. Putting in the power locks will not be simple. You'll need to take the doors apart, cut holes into the panels for the switches, run vacuum lines from the engine all the way to the switches and to the locks themselves, etc. Not a fun prospect and probably more trouble than it's worth.
If you had to take the doors apart for some other, needed reason, such as to repair a window mechanism, I could see doing the locks, since the door has been taken apart, anyway. But basically to fix something that ain't broken, remember the primary motto of a doctor. "First, do no harm."
With floor mats, on the other hand, you just throw them on the floor. I can see doing that.
What makes the star fire convertible ranked higher than the 98 convertible if you don’t mind me asking?
That's my question, too. I don't agree with that ranking.
Oldsmobile has always considered the 98 to be the top-of-the-line. The only thing that might make the Starfire "ranked" higher would be the price of the convertible. The base price of the 1964 Starfire convertible was $4817. The highest-priced 98, which was also the convertible, had a base price of $4532.
The Starfire coupe was much cheaper than the convertible at $4200. Every 98 style except the Town Sedan cost more than that. The 98 Town Sedan listed at $4057.
What makes the star fire convertible ranked higher than the 98 convertible if you don’t mind me asking? Did it come with more features than the 98 convertible? I always thought the 98s were marketed as the crème of the crop of Oldsmobiles and Star fires were right below.
Different markets. You have to understand the Starfire's place and purpose. In performance, equipment and price it was aimed squarely at the Thunderbird and letter Chrysler 300. Until 1966, when Toronado appeared and stole its market out from under it, its base price was several hundred dollars more than Ninety Eight. Today it would be called a halo car.
Not taking anything away from Ninety Eight. They were still Oldsmobile's bread and butter luxury market car and equal to anything Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln or Imperial could offer. Their gadgets were a lot more reliable than Lincoln, and especially Imperial, too.
I guess I should 'fess up. I'm the 1964 technical advisor to the National Antique Olds Club. It pleases me that a guy your age is into these cars and trying to learn everything you can about them because, being 68 years old, I know I won't be around a lot longer and someone needs to keep the knowledge.
I would say that the Starfire falls outside of the traditional Oldsmobile hierarchy. The Toronado did the same thing. The traditional hierarchy was A-body (F-85/Cutlass), B-body (88), and C-body (98). The Starfire was a B-body in size, but it was outside of this realm. I would say that it occupied a place next to the 98, not above it or below it.
The Toronado was always the most expensive Oldsmobile, right from the first year, 1966. But I don't think anyone would say that it was "above" or "below" the 98. It would be like comparing apples and oranges. The Toronado was simply next to the 98.
If you get into the vacuum power door lock game, hit me up. I’ve been playing with these for 40 years. These are a fun and unusual option to me. I have ‘em on both of my big Olds and installed them myself when the interiors were out.
Other than my cars, I’ve seen maybe 10 to 20 of these systems through the years. Of which maybe 4 or 5 were Oldsmobiles. The rest were Caddies and it’s the same core system, excepting the Brand-unique trim switches and vacuum actuators that were specific to make/model for several years.
These were manufactured by Trico (yes the wiper blade people) and sold to I think all the Big 3 in the ‘60’s. The actuators are getting scarce now, ones that will hold vacuum 60 years later are yet more scarce, since, well they’ve been in use for 60 years and rubber (even great rubber) eventually cracks & wears out. It’s possible to rebuild them but I don’t know of anyone reproducing the rubber parts which seal the up/down motion, nor the giant rubber diaphragms that move the lock rods up & down. The other parts that wear are the door switches which have 6 or so layers of metal and rubber to direct the vacuum where it needs to go. Eventually these wear out, but you can substitute in custom-cut road bike inner tube rubber if you’re willing to disassemble them.
I’ve found the hoses overall, very very robust for old rubber, it’s really just the ends that get stretched over the hose nipples which crack and split. Snip off a quarter inch or so every few years to restore the metal/rubber sealing and you can carry on.
I love the Autronic eye, but it’s a tube-based system which I’ve only ever gotten working intermittently. Two problems - I don’t think I can find replacement tubes and also today’s world has a lot more cars & ambient light, so it kicks down all the time when you want high beams. Truthfully, I just use it in manual mode due to these challenges. This could really use a solid state upgrade, but my hardware and programming skills are not up to that.
The other one I like are sorta aftermarket hazard flashers that light up the brake and turn lights. I think GM offered ‘em over the counter more or less until they built the functionality into the late 60’s Saginaw columns.
On the Stafire vs. Toro product slotting, I’ve always believed the article in that Old Classic Car magazine which stated that the “Buckets & console” trend had run its course and by ‘66 Olds had a fresh offering ready for sale. No need for 2 high end coupes, so ‘66 was the final year for the Starfire and only offered as a coupe.
As a coupe, though, it’s a really fun car! And the bonus is that mechanically, net of trim parts and that goofy Pontiac concave back window, it’s really an Olds 88 with buckets and a console.
it’s really an Olds 88 with buckets and a console.
And the hottest engine Oldsmobile had for the year. 330hp 1961-62, 345hp 1963-64, and 375hp 1965-66. All designated "Starfire" engines. They also had 3.42 gearing 61-64, and 3.23 65-66. Remember their target market- Thunderbird and letter Chrysler 300. Not even Riviera dared to tread in that rarefied air, though it probably could have.
Worth mentioning that a Ninety Eight could have the Starfire drivetrain by checking the right boxes. Ninety Eight was a couple hundred pounds heavier, but with Starfire drivetrain those big girls could still get up and boogie.
Over the years, both my big cars - ‘66 98 convertible and ‘66 Starfire eventually got 3.23 rear ends. Getting back to the options (which didn’t change much from 64- 66), I added a most all I could find to my cars. To me these cars are all about the toys you could get on ‘em. The cars were built to accommodate the options.
These days, it’s just a matter of time, luck and $ to add them to these older cars. But I can say adding the options was one of my favorite past times along the way.
My 64 Ninety Eight CSC was optioned with AC, power antenna, AM/FM radio. It has the 3.42 axle. Even though I don't have the original Starfire engine, it is still quick for a big car. After tinkering with the climate control vacuum valve setup, I don't mind that it doesn't have the vacuum door locks. Seems like a hassle to work on. I do have the vacuum trunk release, and it works perfectly!
My son decoded the data plate and found that whoever restored it painted it in the correct colors (Jade Mist with white hardtop). I had just assumed that somebody painted the roof white for custom look, not realizing that it was a factory option (D99 on above build sheet).
i retrofitted (added) power door locks to both my cars probably 35 and 35 years ago when I came across the systems in a junkyard. I might have pulled from and Olds, but I seem to remember pulling at least some components from Caddies.
Power door locks, power trunk release and windshield wipers were all made by sub-contractor Trico and sold to the big 3, so you can even have some parts swap ability across GM/Ford/Chrysler…
The vacuum hoses Trico used in the 60’s were very thick fairly hard rubber the hoses hold up very well, other than a 1/4” snip on the hose ends where needed every 5 years or so. My Starfire holds vacuum enough to pop the trunk for 3-4 days (probably the big reservoir on my passenger inner fender). My 98 convertible must have the engine running to work the accessories. I have no complaints either way, but it’s interesting that they behave differently.
Any way fun options, but yeah, kind of a one-time pain to put in. You’d only do this when the entire interior is out and maybe the dash it out too. Stringing thoses hoses through the car took a day or so. The weak spot now is finding still functioning vacuum actuators. The thinner gauge bellows rubber on the inside eventually crack and leak, as to the seals that the lock rods run through.
Any way fun options, but yeah, kind of a one-time pain to put in. You’d only do this when the entire interior is out and maybe the dash it out too. Stringing those hoses through the car took a day or so. The weak spot now is finding still functioning vacuum actuators. The thinner gauge bellows rubber on the inside eventually crack and leak, as to the seals that the lock rods run through.
Yeah, I can see that being a good idea! I have my 14-year-old crawl under the dash to get to the hard-to-reach areas. Luckily, all my vacuum actuators appear to be working! Even the ones that I'm not using (the AC components are gone, but the air box is still there).
