Three speed manual
September 22nd, 2012, 05:55 PM
#1
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Three speed manual
I bought a new 442 in 1971 and my dad told me to get a three speed manual on the floor, so that is what I have. How do I find out how many others were made like that. I am starting to restore it and do not know if I should go big or not.
September 22nd, 2012, 06:16 PM
#2
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I don't know how Manuel is going to feel about you saying he only has 3 speeds but I don't think he'll be happy lol!
Seriously, so you have a 3 speed manual transmission? I'm no expert but I don't think there are many like that, I've never seen (or heard) of one. What is the transmission code?
Last edited by ah64pilot; September 22nd, 2012 at 08:40 PM.
September 22nd, 2012, 06:26 PM
#3
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Welcome to the site! I looked at a 1971 Cutlass with a 3 speed on the floor many years ago. It's probably pretty scarce as I think most buyers opted for the 4 speed. Is it a Muncie with an iron case?
I would think that as long as you don't cut things it should be a pretty easy swap to put in a 4 speed. But what I would do is keep all the original parts, fill the gear box with oil and tuck it under the work bench! I've got a couple manual steering and manual drum brake cars that I've converted to power steering and power disc brakes as I enjoy driving those setups more. But I'm keeping all the manual parts so some day... if I ever want to put it back to original I can do that. There's my 2 cents anyway
Oh, yeah, please post pictures when you have time! We like to see each others cars! If you need it here's a thread describing a couple ways to post pictures. John
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-pictures.html
P.S. typo fixed! We all have fat fingers once in a while!
I would think that as long as you don't cut things it should be a pretty easy swap to put in a 4 speed. But what I would do is keep all the original parts, fill the gear box with oil and tuck it under the work bench! I've got a couple manual steering and manual drum brake cars that I've converted to power steering and power disc brakes as I enjoy driving those setups more. But I'm keeping all the manual parts so some day... if I ever want to put it back to original I can do that. There's my 2 cents anyway
Oh, yeah, please post pictures when you have time! We like to see each others cars! If you need it here's a thread describing a couple ways to post pictures. John
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-pictures.html
P.S. typo fixed! We all have fat fingers once in a while!
Oh well...
September 22nd, 2012, 06:48 PM
#6
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September 22nd, 2012, 07:53 PM
#8
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Three Speed
I just got my 442 out of my pole barn , I haven't started since 1989 and I cleaned the points and it started up on 23 year old gas and it ran at a good idled. I started days later and ran around in my the yard, no brakes
September 22nd, 2012, 07:58 PM
#9
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Looks like Nugget Gold with the OAI hood! Cool Car!!! Since you bought it new do you still have any old photographs of the early years? Any of the paperwork?
I have to agree with the other guys. As rare as your car is I'd keep it original. If you want a toy to get crazy with get a Cutlass and rebuild it whatever way you want.
John
I have to agree with the other guys. As rare as your car is I'd keep it original. If you want a toy to get crazy with get a Cutlass and rebuild it whatever way you want.
John
September 23rd, 2012, 05:35 AM
#13
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September 23rd, 2012, 05:42 AM
#15
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A peek in the Chassis Service Manual will show illustrations of what is obviously a Ford Top Loader in the 3-spd MT section.
GM was, after all, almost formed from Oldsmobile and Ford... Valve springs are similar if not the same part... sort of cousins in the industry. Ford would be the redneck hillbilly I guess.
GM was, after all, almost formed from Oldsmobile and Ford... Valve springs are similar if not the same part... sort of cousins in the industry. Ford would be the redneck hillbilly I guess.
September 23rd, 2012, 07:59 AM
#17
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For the record, Olds (and the other GM divisions that used it) referred to the trans as a DEARBORN transmission. The F-word was never used. 
Just consider this payback for Ford using a Qjet on the 429 CJ motors.
Just consider this payback for Ford using a Qjet on the 429 CJ motors.
September 23rd, 2012, 11:43 AM
#19
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Okay, let's clear this up. '65-'69, Olds (and the other GM divisions) HD 3-speed manual trans was the Ford toploader. Joe's comment was a bit tongue in cheek. The only difference from the "true Ford" version was the Olds version has a different input shaft. Yes, the (very heavy) cast iron case in later years has "FoMoCo" logo.
Starting in 1970, the GM heavy duty 3-speed was a GM issue standard side cover aluminum cased unit. This is, then, what would come with a '71 442.
442- wise, 273 hardtops, 96 post cars, and 48 converts.
Starting in 1970, the GM heavy duty 3-speed was a GM issue standard side cover aluminum cased unit. This is, then, what would come with a '71 442.
442- wise, 273 hardtops, 96 post cars, and 48 converts.
September 23rd, 2012, 01:18 PM
#21
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Okay, let's clear this up. '65-'69, Olds (and the other GM divisions) HD 3-speed manual trans was the Ford toploader. Joe's comment was a bit tongue in cheek. The only difference from the "true Ford" version was the Olds version has a different input shaft. Yes, the (very heavy) cast iron case in later years has "FoMoCo" logo.
Starting in 1970, the GM heavy duty 3-speed was a GM issue standard side cover aluminum cased unit. This is, then, what would come with a '71 442.
442- wise, 273 hardtops, 96 post cars, and 48 converts.
Starting in 1970, the GM heavy duty 3-speed was a GM issue standard side cover aluminum cased unit. This is, then, what would come with a '71 442.
442- wise, 273 hardtops, 96 post cars, and 48 converts.
September 23rd, 2012, 01:33 PM
#22
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fwiw, the 1973 edition of GMPD book shows 65 HD - 69 using the "Dearborn" 3 speed, and also the 70 big cars. 70 A bodies, and 71 all show the "Muncie" GM built 3 speed. I have heard of exceptions and it is possible the Ford trans was used in some cars after 1969. I once bought one out of a Firebird in the junkyard in the 1970s.
September 23rd, 2012, 01:54 PM
#23
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fwiw, the 1973 edition of GMPD book shows 65 HD - 69 using the "Dearborn" 3 speed, and also the 70 big cars. 70 A bodies, and 71 all show the "Muncie" GM built 3 speed. I have heard of exceptions and it is possible the Ford trans was used in some cars after 1969. I once bought one out of a Firebird in the junkyard in the 1970s.
The BOP bell housings were dual drilled to accept either the 3 or 4-speed, so interchanging was easy to do.
September 23rd, 2012, 04:26 PM
#24
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September 23rd, 2012, 04:30 PM
#26
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Okay, let's clear this up. '65-'69, Olds (and the other GM divisions) HD 3-speed manual trans was the Ford toploader. Joe's comment was a bit tongue in cheek. The only difference from the "true Ford" version was the Olds version has a different input shaft. Yes, the (very heavy) cast iron case in later years has "FoMoCo" logo.
Starting in 1970, the GM heavy duty 3-speed was a GM issue standard side cover aluminum cased unit. This is, then, what would come with a '71 442.
442- wise, 273 hardtops, 96 post cars, and 48 converts.
Starting in 1970, the GM heavy duty 3-speed was a GM issue standard side cover aluminum cased unit. This is, then, what would come with a '71 442.
442- wise, 273 hardtops, 96 post cars, and 48 converts.
Thanks
September 23rd, 2012, 04:35 PM
#28
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Gear ratios are shown in the transmission section of the Chassis Service Manual. Available free of charge on Wild About Cars.
Shown here for 1969, page 7-882
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...aldisplayed=50
September 23rd, 2012, 04:38 PM
#29
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September 23rd, 2012, 05:39 PM
#30
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No Dave, even though that is technically a toploader. Here's the Olds version.
Gear ratios are shown in the transmission section of the Chassis Service Manual. Available free of charge on Wild About Cars.
Shown here for 1969, page 7-882
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...aldisplayed=50
Gear ratios are shown in the transmission section of the Chassis Service Manual. Available free of charge on Wild About Cars.
Shown here for 1969, page 7-882
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...aldisplayed=50
September 24th, 2012, 08:14 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by wmachine
No Dave, even though that is technically a toploader. Here's the Olds version.
So, the question then still remains as to what 3-speed manual tranny was used by Olds pre-1965, and more specifically in the 1960 Super 88 I owned?
No Dave, even though that is technically a toploader. Here's the Olds version.
So, the question then still remains as to what 3-speed manual tranny was used by Olds pre-1965, and more specifically in the 1960 Super 88 I owned?
September 24th, 2012, 05:06 PM
#32
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My guess would be a Muncie 318. Weren't they using those in Olds cars those years?
September 24th, 2012, 10:44 PM
#34
Wmachine,
The pic of the 3 speed is a Ford product
The c5ar 7006 means main case from '65
The 7a040 means a '65 extension housing
or at least of the '65 year
If you look the front bearing retainer should maybe say C5ar 7050
Gene
The pic of the 3 speed is a Ford product
The c5ar 7006 means main case from '65
The 7a040 means a '65 extension housing
or at least of the '65 year
If you look the front bearing retainer should maybe say C5ar 7050
Gene
September 25th, 2012, 03:50 AM
#35
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September 25th, 2012, 04:46 AM
#36
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I parted a 70 convertible about 16 years ago that had the 3 speed floor shift - appeared factory with the proper cutout in the "hump" for the (Hurst) shifter (no console - just the rubber boot) - I remember concluding that it was an M-14 Muncie - does this sound right? Car, transmission, and most of my memories from 16 years ago are long gone - however, I did use the transmission for a year or so while I was doing work on my 4 speed - wow that thing had loonngg, low gears
September 25th, 2012, 05:44 AM
#37
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Correct, but the bells before the intro of the HD Dearborn trans do not have the Ford pattern on them. The 64 GTO, the 64 Olds small block and from what Ive found the cars all the way up to the intro of the Ford unit in early 65 do not have the dual mounting holes.
What we now call a BOP bellhousing started off as just an Olds bellhousing, because Olds used the Dearborn trans before Pontiac did and Buick was still using the Nailhead, which had its own bellhousing.
Doesnt really have anything to do with the original topic, just some early bellhousing history that Ive come across.
Last edited by TK-65; September 25th, 2012 at 05:47 AM.
September 25th, 2012, 07:32 AM
#38
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I have the shifter that came with it too.
September 25th, 2012, 08:07 AM
#39
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Olds stick shift tranny 51-64
This was the famous "Roadmaster" transmission that Buick used in it's heavier models from 1936-60. (Century,Roadmaster, and Limited)
Buick built a special version of this trans for Olds. It had a tailshaft for an open driveline. (Buicks had a torque tube)
September 25th, 2012, 08:29 AM
#40
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Insurance!
Insurance was the reason. I had a friend back in '68 who bought a new Firebird 400. I worked at the local dealership as a mechanic's helper. I remember all of us gathering around to gawk at the "Ford" tranny in this new Firebird!
I asked him later, why the 3 speed? He explained that the insurance was too high if he got a 4 speed. (he was only 21)
He told me that the insurance would be almost as much as the car payment if he got a 4 speed.
I asked him later, why the 3 speed? He explained that the insurance was too high if he got a 4 speed. (he was only 21)
He told me that the insurance would be almost as much as the car payment if he got a 4 speed.
