Hello Classic Olds Forum,

I joined this because I am in pursuit of becoming an Olds-owning member versus a want-to-be olds-owning member.

What prompted me to join was reading a thread on a cowl tag for a 64 Cutlass and the owner was trying to verify it was a 442.

I have 2 olds that I am interested in finding, a 64 442 and a 64 convertible Starfire.

Specifically I am looking at a 64 olds 442 (purported to be) and after reading the aforementioned thread I asked for a picture of the cowl tag. I am no where near the car and am looking to get some insight from the forum before I pay to have the car inspected by a proper Classic Car inspector.

I have seen the car through pictures. It is a green (fern?) body and black hardtop, has the 4 speed with correct shifter and the proper dual-snout air cleaner. Can't see the heads to verify the '1' and there are no pics of the suspension that I have yet.

As a newbie I am jumping into trying to post a picture of the cowl tag.

The VIN is 824M037182.

Thank you for any insight.

 

Likely a clone:


https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post763885

 

The VIN on a '64 tells you very little that you can't tell just by looking at the car. It certainly will not tell you if it is a 442. That was a mid-year addition to the option package line-up that year.

8 = 8 cylinder engine
2 = series (Cutlass)
4 = model year (1964)
M = built at Lansing
037182 = production sequence number at the Lansing plant.

 

As far as the cowl tag, it says that the car is a '64 Cutlass 2-door hardtop (Holiday Coupe), Fern Mist lower body color, Provincial White upper body color, dark green vinyl interior built 4th week of October 1963. I don't know what the 2Y-L indicates. Again, I don't think the cowl tag will tell you anything about whether or not the car is a 442.

 

Thank you for info.

The information that I have about the car, from the owner, but not by the owner, is that this car was a 'prototype of sorts' for the 442.

Does someone know when the first 442 was built in either 63 or 64? Saw the Oct thing on the cowl tag and confirmed it with my book and the posting just made.

I have requested documentation, but it is indirect, so still waiting.

So, hypothetically, if it has the 330, the 1 on the heads, the proper suspension (basically optioned out a cutlass 'like' a 442 but not ordered as 442), how can you tell?

Thx

 

I'm no expert on 442s, but I've never heard of such a thing, and this sounds like just the kind of comment someone trying to gin up interest in a car would say.

As I said earlier, the 442 was introduced mid-way through the '64 model year, so maybe February of '64 or thereabouts for the first one? This car was built in October '63, which was fairly early in the model year, which suggests it could not be a 442. The 037182 in the VIN is a relatively low number, which also suggests that the car was built early in the model year.

Does it have dual exhaust?

Unless you have a window sticker or original dealer invoice or something like that, I think the car itself has to be inspected closely. But I think the early build date on this car is working against its being a 442.

 

OK, Thx.

Yes, has dual exhaust, proper engine color, very clean. I thought, from my info, that the top was not black to start, and appreciate the confirmation that it was white. The interior is that dark green interior, as indicated and, from what I can tell from previous ventures, it looks correct (I need better pictures)

I agree on the authenticity issue. That is why I am trying to get any supporting documentation.

Agree, on its own, built too early and at best, just a lot of work to duplicate a 442.

If I get anything else, I will post and see what people think.

Thx

 

All,

I looked at all of the threads and links and the car I am discussing (in my prospective purchase posting) is this (in)famous green, pre-dated '442'. Thank you for the links.

Helps me exit the process. It may in fact be a fabulous car for what it is, but not being able to see it in person, etc. I am not going to chase it.

Am curious what it sold for the last time around. Anyone know?

I am sure I'll be back on in the future as I continue my hunt for a 64 442 and 64 Starfire ragtop.

Thanks again.

 

You might find these of interest.

 

When the car was for sale in MT I had communications with the seller. He purchased the car as represented as a real B09 optioned 442. As we communicated & with the efforts from others he came to realize that he got caught with his pants down. He would never admit that the car is not legit & always was careful to use language that avoided or skirted the issue. This story about the car being a pre-production unit has surfaced long after I gave up on this car.


The car is a very nice 1964 Cutlass 330 4 speed car with some 442 appearance items. If you want it buy it but do not pay 442 money for a Cutlass. Certainly his $60K US asking price is pure fantasy.

 

Thanks for follow up and info.

Good to hear from with someone that spoke with one of the owners.

I believe you are spot on with the price. Typically, once someone makes a good faith purchase for something they really wanted then puts it back into the market and it gets called out, they will hold out for another that will purchase more on emotion than facts, to recover. Hard to believe the car will be sold for high-quality clone value (25 to 30?) vs whatever was paid for it last round.

I would like to get a real 442, so I will need to be patient. I haven't seen one (that had proper documentation) in about 18 months.

 

It's good that you did your homework and did not get sucked into the ad from this seller. Hopefully no one in the future will get burnt by this one.