http://www.classic-carauction.com/au...auctionid=6905


http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/...odD1s.facebook



I don't know 64's but I don' think that console came around until 65 and it looks like an automatic shifter?

 

That is a Muncie Shifter. Correct for 1964.

 

Those shifter were SLOPPY, Hurst a much better shifter. JMO

 

Sorry, Mike, but you're wrong on both counts. That console was used on floor shift MT cars from 1964-69, and as noted, that's the correct shifter for 64. I cannot vouch for the claims, however. Without ironclad factory documentation, it's just an interesting story. Lacking proof, the cynic in my says that this story is just a convenient way to legitimize a clone built on a car with the wrong date code.

 

Thanks Joe (and Dave). I don't know 64-67 at all. There's a lot of cynic in me when I see people claiming stuff like this without a shred of documentation.

 

This car is out of Missoula MT & has been discussed on here before. It was on Craigslist about a year ago. It is a Cutlass cloned to a 442. Seller knew as much but would never admit it. Buyer Beware. That said it is a lovely car that I would love to own.

 

The snorkels on the air cleaner do not look correct...too long they are.

 

This is the original thread on the car which I started.


https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-442-ebay.html


Autobroker ad for it in Missoula where he was asking $60K


http://www.autobrokercenter.com/inve...ice=-1&keyword=

Olds ebay auction where it bid to $26,600.00


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oldsmobile-4...US_Cars_Trucks

 

PLEASE READ !! AFTER BEING INFORMED BY A COUPLE OF SEEMINGLY KNOWLEDGABLE INDIVIDUALS THAT THIS CUTLASS CAN NOT BE A TRUE 442 BECAUSE IT LACKS THE REAR SWAY BAR AND THAT IT WAS BUILT BEFORE THE 442S WERE AVAILABLE . ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT I HAVE DONE RESEARCH ON THE INTERNET TO FIND OUT ABOUT THESE ISSUES AND I CAN NOT DEFINITIVELY STATE THAT IT IS TRULY A 442 OR NOT . I LOOKED FOR THE BUILD SHEET UNDER THE ORIGINAL BACK SEAT ONLY TO FIND THE ORIGINAL JUTE PADDING AND ORIGINAL INSULATION , NO BUILD SHEET . I HAVE NO DEFINITIVE PROOF THAT IT IS REAL . TO THE IDEA THAT IT WAS CLONED LEADS ME TO ASK "WHY" WOULD SOMEONE GO THROUGH ALL OF THIS TROUBLE , INSTALLING THE ADJUSTABLE UPPER CONTROL ARM BRACKETS , FINDING THE CORRECT CODED 330 ENGINE WITH THE CORRECT HEADS , INTAKE , CARB AND EXHAYST MANIFOLDS , THE CORRECT MUNCIE 4 SPEED , PUT BEAUTIFUL 2 STAGE PAINT ON IT , THE REDLINES , THE TOTAL FIT AND FINISH OF THIS CAR AND "FORGET" TO INSTALL A $250.00 SWAY BAR KIT ??? COULD GM HAD BUILT THIS CAR EXACTLY AS IT IS ?? ABSOLUTELY !! ONE THING I HAVE LEARNED FROM 30 YEARS OR SO OF DEALING WITH VINTAGE CARS IS THAT NOTHING IS WRITTEN IN STONE . WHAT ONE PERSON CLAIMS AS GOSPEL , ANOTHER EXPERT WILL REPUTE . IT WAS 1964 , THINGS HAPPENED THAT WERE NOT PERFECT , PERHAPS THIS CAR WAS BUILT AS IT IS AND SOMEONE ADDED THE 442 EMBLEMS ?? IS THAT POSSIBLE , I SUPPOSE SO . PERHAPS IT WAS BUILT REALLY EARLY AND THEN OLDSMOBILE SAID "WE FORGOT THE REAR SWAY BAR !!" IS THAT POSSIBLE ?? I SUPPOSE SO . I COULD NOT LOCATE AN EXACT DATE OF THE FIRST 442 BEING BUILT .
I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO TRULY APOLOGIZE TO ANYONE THAT THINKS I WASTED THIER TIME OR WAS TRYING TO DECEIVE ANYONE . THIS LISTING WAS DONE IN GOOD FAITH , I TRULY BELIEVED I WAS BUYING A REAL 442 WHEN I BOUGHT IT . I STILL DON'T KNOW FOR A FACT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER . I DO KNOW THAT IF MONEY WERE NO OBJECT , THIS CAR WOULD NOT BE FOR SALE , I WOUILD ABSOLUTELY KEEP IT , IT IS IRREPLACEABLE . I HAVE LOWERED MY RESERVE , NOT DRASTICALLY BUT NOTICABLY , I HAVE DOWNLOADED MANY MORE PICTURES ON MY WEBSITE OF THE UNDERCARRIAGE (COULD NOT FIGURE OUT HOW TO REMOVE PRESENT ONES FROM EBAY'S AUCTION TO PUT THEM IN THIS UPDATED VERSION , LIMIT OF 24 PICTURES) . MY WEBSITE IS www.autobrokercenter.com
ONCE AGAIN , MY APOLOGIES TO EVERYONE FOR THIS SITUATION . I HOPE THAT SOMEONE STILL WANTS A BEAUTIFUL CAR AND THAT THAT SOMEONE IS THE ONE THAT WINS THE BIDDING . THANK YOU , JOHN DORAZI OWNER AUTO BROKER CENTER

 

I thought it looked familiar.

 

Oh, well, in that case...

After all, EVERYTHING on the internet is true. Personally, if I were trying to determine the details for an Oldsmobile that I was trying to sell for big dollars, I'd probably start at the R.E.O. Museum, AHPS, or other source of period factory documentation.

 

The holes in the upper control arm plate mount are on every manual transmission frame. Even 4 door column shift manual cars. This car having them only proves it was a stick shift car.

 

Obviously the guy is still fishing and hoping for legitimizing the car as a 442. The car most likely was a 4spd, consoled, 330, 4bbl car, with or without dual exhaust. Very little was required to make it a 442 appearing car. Just add some repro 442 badges and weld another snorkle on to the breather and you have what he has.... Pretty easy I would say. If he fell for it thats his problem. Very nice car yes, cool car yes, 442 NO.

 

I guess it will sell for about what a restored clone will go for... probably around $28-32k. Unless he finds the right buyer.

 

I don't think the Olds test mules are documented as well as Pontiacs, but PHS docs showed two of my friend Tim's cars were "weird". 64 GP changed over from 4-barrel to correctly date coded Tri-Power coming down the Doraville assembly line and invoiced to that plant instead of a dealer, and 66 Bonneville Brougham invoiced to Pontiac Engineering in Lorain OH. Both these cars had the option book thrown at them. We figure the GP was a Doraville executive car and the Brougham was a test mule.

But, Olds documentation is sadly not as complete as Pontiac's.

 

to me,the wheels look a little to deep to be stock 64

 

Joe,
Here's a pic of a '64 4-4-2 engine I took back in 2003 at the Alliance, Ohio show.
The air cleaner snorkels look pretty much the same.
I know the red lines tires were out in '65, but were they in '64?

 

Ed could be snorkles are correct..... I am pretty sure the redlines were around in 64 but tire size could have been the 775-14 tires redline?. Maybe literature says for sure....

 

Yep. 7.75 x 14 were first on the "A" bodies and the Dynamic "88".
I know they were the base tire on the "88" in '65. Not sure after that.
F-70 replaced them on the muscle cars, but, again, I'm not sure which year.
I have dealer brochures from '65 to '70, but, I didn't see any mention of tires or
tire sizes in them.

 

Not for 64:





On lesser Olds A-body cars that year, the standard tire on V8 cars was 7.00-14. The optional oversize tire was 7.50-14.

 

Thanks for the correction, Joe.
That also answers my question of when the red lines came out.
Also, I didn't know springs on '64 4-4-2's were different from cutlass springs.

 

I seem to recall that the 442 emblem on the passenger fender was slightly crooked from the factory. Also the inside of the driver fender should have a paint pen "B09" written.

 

Here's another interesting thing to look at. Note the driver's side snorkel on the car in question:



Now look at the photo from the 1964 Olds dealer info sheet that I posted above. Note in particular how the driver's side snorkel in that photo is the same as the one on the passenger side, except that the flat spot for the breather tube isn't punched out. Enlarge the photo from the car for sale and note that the driver's side breather doesn't have this flat spot. I will admit that the photo in the Olds brochure is surely a pre-production car, so perhaps someone with a real 64 442 air cleaner can verify this on production cars.

 

Oh, you mean like the one I have!!! LOL

 

Page 84 of January 2015 issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines shows that this car was @ the Russo & Steele Monterey Auction. It bid to $31,900 but did not meet reserve.


The consigner was still singing that this is an early (Oct 1963) built 442 & that is why it dis not have a rear sway bar. Really?


The report also adds that it is apparent that the roof of the car has been painted.