WBCC

Hi all...I am looking forward to learning a lot about the Cutlass here. I own a body shop in NY, and we do collision as well as high-end restorations. I am possibly traveling to Maryland to purchase a '69 Cutlass S. Owner claims the car is numbers matching. VIN checks out. I requested that he send a clear close-up of the cowl tag, and was hoping you guys could help decode it. Also, any tips as to problem areas (body-wise) to look for right off the bat would be helpful. I'll be looking the whole car over thoroughly, but that would help expedite the trip. It needs a complete resto, especially interior, tho the sheet metal seems to be fairly decent. Here is the link to the car. He accepted an offer of $4500. Thanks guys!
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11050...xe=exe,ext=ext

WBCC

Oooops...sorry. Just saw the "new user" section. Shoulda posted there first

oldcutlass

I moved you to the newbie section. Welcome to the site and congrats on your future project.

joe_padavano

Welcome.

350 2bbl car. A/C compressor and parts missing, means that the evaporator had been open for a while. Drum brakes. Repaint tells me that there's the usual rust underneath. Expect to find patches behind all four wheels. Look carefully at pinchweld rust around the back window and windshield. Also, I'm pretty sure that a Cutlass S should have the "double hump" hood. The flat hood on this car was used on F-85s, four doors, wagons, and Supremes, so at least the hood has been replaced. Don't know if that means the car has been hit in the front or not. The front seat is not original either. Can't tell from the ad if this is a Jetaway 2 speed trans or a TH350 - could have been either in 1969.

Good luck.

WBCC

Very Helpful!

WBCC

OK...so the ad says it is a Supreme, I guess I thought S was short for Supreme, but I guess not? So it may be the correct hood?

joe_padavano

Contrary to popular belief, the "S" stands for "S", not Supreme. They were two different models with different VINs. Either the hood is wrong or the fender emblems are wrong. The VIN will tell you what the car was from the factory. A Supreme would have a VIN that started 342879xxxx. A Cutlass S would have a VIN that started 336879xxxx.

The chrome strip along the top of the fenders and doors says that the car is a Cutlass S, per this photo from the 1969 dealer brochure:



A 1969 Supreme would have had a wider chrome strip along the bottoms of the doors and fenders, like this:



Also note that the Supreme came without the "S" emblem on the fender and instead had a "CS" emblem on the C-pillar and the inside door panels. The original back seat upholstery in that car is from a Cutlass S, not a Supreme. The other thing to note is that in 1969, the base equipment in a Supreme 2dr was the 350 4bbl motor and bucket seats, neither of which this car has. Yes, you could have gotten a bench in the Supreme as an option, but few did. Since this seat has been replaced, you'll need the cowl tag to tell you what the original interior was. The 350 2bbl motor was a $34 credit option in the Supreme, but again, few were sold that way.

My money is on the 336879xxx VIN. Again, lots of sellers get this wrong.

WBCC

Ok, yes the VIN correlates to an S. Probably an honest mistake by the seller. At $4500, a decent buy? Thanks for all of your help!

WBCC

Haggerty's VIN decoder shows it as an S Holiday Coupe, but how accurate are they? I'm betting more on the experience of you guys. Here's the VIN: 3368791155454

joe_padavano

Yup, as suggested above:

3 = Oldsmobile Division
36 = Cutlass S model line
87 = Holiday Coupe (Oldsspeak for 2dr hardtop)
9 = 1969 model year
1 = Oshawa, Canada assembly plant
155454 = sequential build number

The "1" in the seventh position of the VIN indicates that the car was assembled at the Oshawa, Canada assembly plant, which means that it has a real Chevy 12 bolt axle, not the Type O with 12 bolts on the cover but only ten on the ring gear. It also means that you can write to GM of Canada and for a fee you can get documentation of all the options the car was built with. Only cars built in Canada or originally sold in Canada can get this. For most Oldsmobile cars, the info just doesn't exist anymore.

Now, you've got a nice foundation for a build (pending examination for rust) but the reality is that it's a pretty bottom-of-the-line Cutlass for 1969, so a stock numbers-matching restoration isn't going to make for a valuable car. Build it the way you want, don't feel guilty about it, and enjoy it. Good luck.

WBCC

Thanks so much! It's certainly not intended for investment. I want it to enjoy. I've talked to the guys in the shop and we're definitely thinking restomod. I know full well how much one can invest in a car and not recoup. We're doing a '68 Nova SS, nearing completion (deadline is July- going to Nova Nationals in Delaware). All told, final figure customer will pay out will probably be around $80k. But in reality, if every hour was counted, we estimated the other day at around 2500 hrs. At 75$/hr....well...you get the picture! If I do get it, you bet I'll be back to pick your brains! Thanks again! Ben.

Diego

Where are the Nova Nationals?

FWIW, since the Cutlass S is a Canadian car, you should be able to get docs form GM of Canada.

WBCC

Dover, Maryland, 7/21-24.

Diego

I assume you mean DE?

WBCC

Yes, Sorry.