harlequin

Just thought I'd make my first post here on this forum. My name is Zach and I love 442's. I've been searching for awhile and I think I've found one that has great potential and a good base to work with. The car is a 1970 Olds 442 convertible numbers matching all original and runs. What can the experts here tell me about this VIN#344670E4? I currently have a deposit on the car, and this week I'm driving to see it. Based on the photos the seller has emailed me, the car looks pretty good and it runs. I don't see any rust and the interior looks great. I'm just a little hesitant because I'm a newbie when it comes to 442's but I know not to buy a rust bucket. It has original 455, 4speed muncie,12bolt 3.42 anitspin axle, original hurst shifter, white parchment interior, white power convert top, ps, pfdb, tictoctach, am radio, drivers remote mirror, and ssII rally wheels. Original paint was twilight blue, it was repainted rally green. It needs restoring, which I'm prepared to do. What do you guys think for $10k?

Rickman48

Welcome - if you post your location, someone close might look at it for you, and confirm it's authenticity.

allyolds68

Is it an OAI hood? Any paperwork with the car. As you probably know that 344 VIN makes it a real 442. The E in the Vin makes it a Linden NJ maufactured car. The 4 speed is desireable. I personally think $10k is probably too much unless there's something really special about it but convertibles bring good money. If it's from an area of the country that doesn't rust it could be worth it but being a Linden car it's probably from the Eastern US.

droptopron

Its a four speed convertible. That's pretty special. When the top goes down the price goes up.

oldcutlass

Welcome, sounds like a nice car. Post some pic's.

joe_padavano

You didn't say where the car is located, but if you're in the rust belt I'm always VERY skeptical of cars with recent paint and no visible rust. Check very closely for signs of repair, especially slipshod repair. Also, be aware that the "12 bolt" axle is actually a Type O axle used only on 67-70 Oldsmobiles. It shares noting with the more common Chevy 12 bolt and has a smaller ring gear (8.5") held on with only 10 bolts. Twelve bolts on the cover does not make it a "12 bolt", contrary to popular wisdom.

allyolds68

I was still typing and editing when I realized it was a convertible. Yeah, you're right. Like I said above, Linden and Framingham cars generally would have been delivered in the east so I'd check it over good.

harlequin

Hey guys, the car is located in NH and I live in Southington, CT. That'd be sweet if someone wanted to go with me to confirm. The guy said the wheel wells have been replaced, minor frame repair has been done, but all the same it needs restoring. It's not an OAI hood. What I'm personally looking for is 442 convert, white interior, white top, 455bb, 4 speed muncie, and as original as possible for the $$$. Here's some pics, tell me what you guys think.

harlequin

some more pics

harlequin

Here's the engine, needs complete rebuild and tlc

lshlsh2

It looks pretty good from the pics. I would take a magnet with you and check the body behind the wheels, bottom of the doors and rockers. Maybe take a jack with you so you can get a good look underneath and check the frame.

Larry

harlequin

I think I'm sold on it, but it's always good to hear constructive criticism from others. Do you guys notice the front bumper gap between the front fenders? Also, the side mirrors dont match. Little stuff.

slantflat

The motor looks like it's been sitting without the hood on for an extended amount of time. The car itself looks good and being a 4 speed makes it way more better.

oldcutlass

When was it painted? After seeing the engine bay, I would go over it with a fine tooth comb. Whats been done on it, and what has not?

allyolds68

Did you look at it up on a lift? It gives you a completely different perspective on how solid the car really is. Bumper gaps and mirrors aren't what I'd be concerned about.

stevengerard

Lots of good input here. I agree with most, its a real 442 convertible with a 4 speed, those are rare and skyrocketing in price. But as others have said there is plenty to look over. I agree it either sat outside with the hood up or no hood or was in a lake up to its ears for a year, see how well it runs. Before I critique it seems like a fair price for what is a very rare car. And by the picture above its an olds guy who owns it so they should know what they have (Yellow 442 on rack)

Check for rust everywhere.

Rarely will you find a perfect car no matter how hard you look and then the price just gets crazy for those cars anyway.

The door panels are incorrect and the seats look good but I'm betting the interior was Pearl not white, door rests are covered and are incorrectly dark green (Should be pearl). Rims are SSIIIs, which have snap on center-caps (the spare for sure the ones on the car look that way too) Looks like it is missing the trim around the wheel wells in back. Side mirrors are different stock one on driver side probably a dealer installed or aftermarket passenger side one. Check the Cowl tag to see what info that has on it to see what colors it should be. If it was Twilight the color would be 28, can't remember what pearl interior with buckets is 977 maybe? If pearl interior the dash, steering wheel and column should all be black no matter what color the paint outside was/is

Most of these things can all be fixed or repaired, if it is a solid car its a cool one, nice gear ratio too, 3.42 is a great all around gear. No AC but that's ok, no power brakes that could be a bother but that's personal preference

Allan R

The pics always look better than in real life. I hope your deposit was 'subject to' your on site inspection and satisfaction or full refund.

Your VIN is not complete.
3- Oldsmobile
44- 442 model
67 - Convertible platform
0 - 1970 model year
E - Linden New Jersey production.
4?? There should be 6 numbers here indicating the factory production sequence.

Like the others say, take a fridge magnet and don't be shy about putting on any part of the car - be thorough and work systematically from front to back and upper to lower. Also don't be afraid to look under the car. Ask the seller if he will take off the fisher scuff panel and look under the carpet at the floor pans. A new carpet can hide all kinds of shoddy repair or bad rust. Also look at the inside pinch weld areas of the lower doors/bottom doors and deck lid. Tap the sheet metal around the rear quarters. It should sound tinny, not a 'thok' sound. I really wonder if the body hasn't just been given a cosmetic quickie since the engine bay looks really ugly.

I think 10K is a decent price if the body is really solid. Obviously you'll need to see some other reassurances that the safety items (brakes, headlights, horn, fuel, suspension, glass etc) are in reasonable shape too. Seller should be able to document the repairs done.

BTW, that air cleaner in the pic looks awfully like the one that goes with a W25 hood.

There are a couple of things that have alarm bells going off right now.
minor - broken tailight, and rusted out rs backup light
major - why is the wheel house chrome moldings missing on both rear quarters? To me that would be something to check out for a sloppy repair with plenty o filler. The stripe pattern was obviously done by an amateur who doesn't know 442s.

One last thing: If it sounds too good to be true, don't be surprised if you find it isn't. This looks like a nice car in the pics, but I'm sure those are the best pics used by the seller to entice the sale. In the end run - it's your money and you can spend it as you please.

TenMidgets

Personally I think a refundable deposit on this car is a good idea. A true 1970 442 4-speed convertible is a car you have to check out in person!

That said, all the previous posts are what you need to look out for once you get there. Try to have fun with it but take it seriously...$10K is a lot of loot. Let us know how it goes! Best case scenario is a new top and rebuilt engine. Worst case, you find rust as well and walk away.

harlequin

Great feedback guys! Not a whole lot has been done to the car from what the guy says. He said it has been painted, had some interior work done, and rust was addressed. Nothing has been done to engine bay, except air cleaner. It starts right up he says and it drives. But, he says it sat for a long time and that it needs restoring. Rust of course is my number one concern. As long as rust isn't running rampant and the rest of the VIN looks legit, I think I'm going to pull the trigger. I'm planning on going up to NH within the next few days. Are there any other things you guys notice from the pics, good or bad?

Zach

harlequin

Of course it's a refundable deposit, I'm not that naive lol!

joe_padavano

I'm originally from central MA, which is why I'm skeptical of a New England car with fresh paint. The rusty engine scares me, not so much from the standpoint of the engine, but what it means about the body under that new paint. Missing bolt on the hood hinge always makes me worry about how half-@$$ed the last "restoration" was. If the seller is admitting to rust repair, check those welds VERY carefully for workmanship. The engine does have correct E heads. Others have pointed out many of the incorrect aspects of the car (door panels, mirror, etc), but since these incorrect parts look good to the untrained eye, the seller probably won't want to hear about them in a price discussion. Also, what's the deal with the black armrest bases? The car looks like it was cobbled together in some aspects. Are you sure it's an original 4spd car?

stevengerard

I still do not see power disk brakes just an FYI. Definitely worth going to see, good luck. While you are there post to the site or even some of us can be "available" to talk you through some questions

harlequin

He says it is, doesn't the partial VIN# 344670E4 confirm that? I'm a newb lol! I'm sure he did a few throw together things to give it curb appeal.

Allan R

No. Drum front and rear were standard. Power option is JL2 even for the CS 57 and 67

harlequin

Steven, what do you mean you don't see power disc brakes? Can you tell from those pics? I'll post on here to let everyone know when I'll be up there, yea that'd be cool if you guys could chime in on the pics I post while I'm there in realtime! What about a streaming live negotiation from my phone hahaahaa! "sorry man, everyone on the internet says no way"

harlequin

Ok, so the front disc brakes are not factory original I take it. So if I get the rest of the VIN# will that verify its authenticity?

Octania

I see a lot "right" with your car, and what's wrong can be fixed during your restore. The engine looks all there, just needs cosmetic refreshment and whatever else you feel like doing.

Is the car's PCV valve in the intake, fwd of the carb? I don't see one in the rocker cover, and I believe MT cars of the era used the intake mounted PCV and a breather in BOTH rocker covers like we see in your RH cover- the slotted one you have on the left is like 1966-67 vintage.

A friend of mine bought a '69 convert from ebay for like 10 large. Looked great.
How's the frame?
"Good, no problems"
Any rust?
"No, no rust"

In 2 hrs of inspection when it arrived I filled 2 sheets with things wrong. When it go to the cat-sized HOLE IN THE FRAME, I started to pay close attention. Buick 2-spd trans with the driveshaft barely engaged with the trans, like 1/2", and barely touching the seal, so it leaked all the ATF out. Rear quarter chromes replaced with shiny PLASTIC ding molding. Long list of ills. The '73 455 ran great though. Even with the carb body and air horn warped 1/4" [no kidding] from over tightening. Seats and floor were supported by... nothing but rust. The entire floorpan was basically about to fall out.

Ended up going complete frame-off [replaced the frame] restoration. Converted to 4-spd in the process.

CHECK FOR FRAME AND FLOOR/ SUPPORT ROT.
That stuff gets very pricey to fix.... right.

You must have it on a lift. If that is not the owner's lift in the photos, then take it to a tire place or whatnot and do the on-lift inspection.

stevengerard

it could have front disk brakes I just do not see the brake booster in the images so they are not power which makes sense with a 4-speed and a 3.42 rear end gear. Again that' fine. Some folks love that set up some folks prefer a little more comfort.

Unfortunately the VIN tell you very little but does tell you its a 1970 442 convertible

slantflat

Allan the E would be New Jersey built. Also if the first sequential number is a 4, that would make it a very late model year build. I don't know if that matters much.

The master looks like it's for manual brakes, and I don't see a booster. Not a great picture, though.

You can see blue paint on the insides of the fenders, and also is that blue in the jambs?

Looks like some custom wiring going on on the left side of the engine.

harlequin

He's got a lift, so Ill check things out. Good call guys about checking under carpet if doable. I'm looking at doing resto mods, but not 100% of what the car was sold as. This is all really good info guys and I really appreciate everyones feedback. Gives me more bargaining power

allyolds68

Look at the inner wheel house welds on the drivers side in the trunk photo. At least the inner wheelhouse appears to be fixed but it doesn't look like they took the time to clean the weld (if what I think I'm seeing is what's there)

Allan R

Looking at the engine pics.

If this is an original 4 speed car, why is there a linkage attached to the column shift tube?

gearheads78

I think if the car is what he says it is the price is right even with the rust that you WILL find. My question for you is whats are you skills, tools and ability. Doing the work yourself to are going to spend 15K at least bringing this one back. If you pay someone to do it triple that at least. If you have the means you are much better off finding a nice car in the mid to low twenties that just needs a little TLC. Let us know what happens.

gearheads78

Is that not for the back drive?

harlequin

I'm looking for a project and I plan to do most of the work myself. I'd much rather start with something that has a good base and hasn't been restored rather than spend big money on someone elses work and vision. I've contiplated it just getting a decent 442, coupe, auto, restored, but that's not what I'm looking for. I'm probably going up there tomorrow. Thanks again to everyone for all the identification and criticism. I'll keep you guys posted.

joe_padavano

Because starting with the 1969 model year, the feds required all cars to lock the shifter with the ignition key. That includes manual transmissions. The backdrive linkage locked the shifter in the reverse position, just like an automatic was locked in park.

What's more impressive is that the backdrive linkage is still there.

harlequin

That's cool to know, thanks for checking that out guys. I've decided to go up Wed, its rainy up here today.

QMaster

Looks like a nice project if it all checks out OK. Sounds like a good price too. Good luck.

Allan R

So you're saying the key won't or shouldn't come out of the key cylinder unless the transmission is in reverse??

stevengerard

I loved that "feature" on my car but then learned it was a worn cylinder.