jcoahran

hello everyone, i am the PROUD owner of my very first car, a 1986 pontiac parisienne brougham (basically a rebadged bonneville) it has a engine i wouldn't normally expect in a pontiac, an oldsmobile. its a 307, and my first question is, does anyone know why they put an olds motor in a pontiac? its not a complaint because i love oldsmobiles. so far, i've done the smog/ac/cat delete, and i love her, sounds amazing. now for my second question, is there any performance parts for the 307? if so, where? most people shun the 307, and tell me to put a 350 in it. no thanks. i want to see how far i can really push this 307. unfortunatley, i have the 7A heads, (small swirl ports) and i can't find any 5A heads for sale anywhere. so im looking for performance parts such as, intake, heads, cam, blah blah blah you get the picture. i haven't had the car very long (maybe 2 months) and am having trouble with the title (got washed before transfered to my name and i cant contact the guy i bought it off of) so from the looks of it, im going to have to get a court ordered title. but it doesn't matter to me because honestly, i've fallen in love with this car. i got it for a steal (a moped that i invested $300 in) so the court costs isn't going to bother me too much because i'd still be paying less for this car then most would. she's got a few dings and dents, but the interior is perfect, 127k on the odometer too. but all of that is besides the point. any tips/hints/advice/links would be GREATLY appreciated. thanks guys!

jaunty75

My response would be, why NOT!

joe_padavano

Starting in the late 1970s, GM consolidated it's many engine lines as a cost-savings measure. In addition, V8s were being phased out for emissions and mileage reasons. The last Pontiac V8 was built in 1981 and by 1986 the only GM V8s were the Caddy and Olds motors in addition to the Chevy small and big blocks. The 307 was installed in all the B-body cars in the 1980s - even my 86 Caprice wagon came from the factory with an Olds 307.

The reason why everyone tells you to get a 350 is that your 86 307 is a roller cam motor with the peanut-port 7A heads, crappy A5 intake, and restrictive tubular exhaust manifolds. While an earlier intake will bolt on, the mismatch at the ports will negate any flow increase (or worse). By the time you replace the heads, intake, and exhaust manifolds, you'll be money ahead to simply get a 350. Your VIN Y motor put out 140 HP on a good day. Heck, a Quad 4 would be an improvement!

jaunty75

My answer was shorter.

jcoahran

ALL 307's have the 4 barrell quadrajet right? and by the way, i dont think this is the original 307, on one of the heads it says "remanufactured 307" and lemme tell ya, it sure feels like a hell of alot more then 140 horse lol but, i cant even find an olds 350 around here, so i was thinking about a sbc 350...really wanna stick with the oldsmobile though, i'd like to find a good 370 and build it. lol or even a 371

Lady72nRob71

If you already pulled the computer stuff, and replaced the carb and disty with non-ccc parts, then you have probably increased its output a bit.
Here is a good overview on how to procede with power mods...
http://tlentz.oldsgmail.com/more_power.html

You are best dropping a 68-72 Olds 350 in place of the 307 - it bolts in and your accessories would bolt up as well. Much more potential exists for the 350 than the 307.

jcoahran

sorry, im young and still a noob when it comes to motors..how can i tell if the computer stuff is still there? and ive seen that link before...makes me want to go out and find a cheap olds 350 block and have my brother help me start from there! lol

Lady72nRob71

If the valve covers can be removed in under 4 hours, then the smog stuff was stripped off......
Post a CLEAR picture of your engine (air cleaner off) - I should be able to see what was pulled and what was removed.

jcoahran

here you go rob.

Allan R

Ah ha ha ha ha. Reminds me of Indiana Jones movie when he looks down into the pit and sees nothing but a writhing mass of snakes.....Now THAT's classic GM design going on there!

jcoahran

haha when i first looked i was like ".....wtf" probably gonna remove as many of those hoses as possible, whats the hose that goes from the metal tray of the air cleaner for? do i need it? lol

Allan R

Yeah, I hear you. Somewhere under that spaghetti is an engine....

oldsguybry

Wow Medusa reborn !

jcoahran

lol thanks guys :P she might be ugly but i love her more then a fat kid hates to run!

coppercutlass

i have a 307 im about to pull out those 5a heads are what i think is on mine currently . Will be going back to my 350 soone here . I also have a 350 block and rotating assembly to go with it . you can have the 350 block and roating assembly for 75 bucks i need it out of my garage. dont know your location but im west of chicago. debating on selling the 307 stuff but money talks lol.

jcoahran

thanks copper, i will let you know about the 350 block as soon as i get the car legal and on the road, looking for something i can slowly build and it looks like you have it haha :P

joe_padavano

First, simply yanking hoses without knowing what or why will make the car run WORSE. Of course, you can remove everything, change the carb and distributor, and you STILL won't have a significant increase in power (however I guarantee that the "butt dyno" will say otherwise, since after all that hard work there MUST be an improvement, right?).

The reality is that save the 260, the roller cam 307 is about the worst motor Olds built from a performance standpoint.

Lady72nRob71

I still see most of the smog stuff, including the electronically controlled carb.
There is only one way to pull the smog stuff - remove it all and change the carb & disty to non computer controlled.
If you do not want to do that, leave it all hooked up and functioning properly.
Pulling only portions of it will make it worse. Many here have experienced that and only succeeded when they did it the only 'right' way.

If your area required emission checks, then you need to keep it all original. However, you CAN replace the 307 block with a 350 and the computer will be happy if done properly.

jcoahran

the only thing smog removed was the actual smog pump. i'll probably leave this engine mostly stock (except what i can do thats free) and buy the 350 block from copper, and little by little build it. then drop it in with a new tranny, then ill keep the 307 and tranny for a spare or incase a friend needs it. how much horsepower can a olds 350 be built to push? i heard that anything more than 400 is risking the block. either way, i'd still be really happy with 400.

PetChemMan

I see an EGR valve in your engine photo. Just disconnecting the vacuum line from the valve, and plugging the line, will help your engine run better. But, I wonder if you can get the car through an emissions inspection with the air pump missing ? Sometimes they do a visual inspection for such items.
If your emissions test is a tailpipe sniff done at idle and/or at off idle, you can usually pass just by retarding the distributor timing about 4 to 6 degrees, and leaning out the carburetor idle jets ( if they can be accessed at all.) Setting the idle speed a bit high also helps a lot. Disconnecting any vacuum advance on the distributor also helps a lot, but just for inspection.
The car may accelerate and run badly, but retarding the ignition timing knocks the CO and HC readings way down , even with a bad catalyst.
Plan on advancing the timing back to stock immediately after going through inspection. Computer controlled fuel injected engines without distributors are another issue, but in the last 40 years I've never had a car with a carburetor and adjustable distributor fail a tailpipe emissions test.

jcoahran

they dont really do visual inspections where im at, just run the VIN. besides, its a "remanufactured" 307, couldn't i say that the new ones dont come with a smog pump? even if they do a visual inspection..before i go ill just go get a high mile olds 350 and go ahead and drop in, then save the money for the rebuild and performance parts. before you say it, yes i know i have to get the transmission for the 350 too..

joe_padavano

No it won't. First, unless the EGR system is not operating properly, the EGR valve only opens at part throttle cruise conditions. It is closed at wide open throttle and plugging it has no affect on W.O.T. performance.

More to the point, on a CCC 307, disabling the EGR valve usually causes pinging at part throttle. Control of the primary rods on the CCC Qjet assumes the EGR valve is operating at part throttle to cool the combustion process. The fuel metering is purposely lean under these conditions.

As I posted above, the CCC system is a SYSTEM. Haphazardly disabling one part of it will not improve performance and will usually hurt.

Lady72nRob71

Even removing the AIR (smog) pump can cause drivability problems, as the O2 sensor is expecting extra oxygen being mixed in with the exhaust.
As noted, leave the EGR valve alone.
IF you find an Olds 350 engine, it will bolt up to the 200r4 tranny (if that is what you have). However, it should be rebuilt to handle the extra power of the 350.

joe_padavano

Um, actually, that is not correct. On the CCC system, the A.I.R. pump output is routed to the exhaust ports only in open loop mode (before the O2 sensor heats up enough to have a valid reading). Once the system switches to closed loop, the A.I.R. pump output is switched to the converter port. The O2 sensor never sees it when the system is operating in closed loop.

Now, the opposite is a very real problem. If the air switching valve is not working properly and A.I.R. pump output is routed to the exhaust ports while the system is in closed loop mode, THEN there is a very real driveability problem as the system thinks the carb is lean and runs the CCC system full rich.

PetChemMan

The EGR can cause surging and poor driveability at part throttle cruising conditions.
If you disconnect it and your car runs better, then leave it off. If your engine runs worse, or pings without the EGR, then reconnect it. A feedback system with an oxygen sensor may in theory be more sensitive to this issue, but it's an easy thing to try. Having run emissions and fuel economy dyno tests on hundreds of cars built between 1970 and 1984, it was extremely rare to find one that ran better with the EGR connected. I don't have much data on later model cars , except for my two 1989 Chevy pickups, one with a 305 engine and one with a 350. These are both closed loop, throttle body fuel injected engines, and seem to run more smoothly without the EGR connected. ( Seat of the pants data.) The feedback carburetor system on the 307 discussed above may, of course, be an exception .