LancJack

I owned a '64 Cutlass F85 convertible from 1970 to 2005 when it was totaled in a crash. My wife and kids surprised me in March 2018 with a vehicle they found in Long Island that they thought was identical to the one I used to own. It was in color (white, red interior, black top) but turns out it was one of the late year Cutlass' turned into a 442, so it has the dual exhaust, extra hp, and some other upgraded accessories and 442 branding on trunk and grille along with some other customizations like mags and air shocks. However it has a automatic transmission, not manual. What I can't find are specific production numbers for this 442 convertible with auto trans. I have found that there were 2999 Cutlass' converted to 442s and that there were 436 Cutlass convertibles in '64, but I can't find definitive numbers showing how many 442 convertibles with auto trans were produced. Does anyone know how I can find out? Thanks for your help.
Jack

35tac

Jack, no numbers for that. Those kind of records weren't kept for one reason or another. Would be nice but not possible. Sounds like it was a nice car.
Wayne

Just learn something new every day on this forum.

joe_padavano

This is easy. There were exactly ZERO 1964 442 convertibles built with automatics. Every single one of the 2999 442s built in the 1964 model year came with a four speed manual trans.

LancJack

Joe, The 2999 number I found was for hardtops. Then a separate number of 436 was provided for convertibles but didn't distinguish between Cutlass and 442. The VIN tells me its a Cutlass body style (series 32) but from what I've been able to find is that the sequential 6-digit production number didn't distinguish between models. It does seems odd to me that they would have made 442s with auto trans but that first year Olds did a quick response to the GTO and converted Cutlass' so I can see where it might be possible they wanted to get some convertibles out with the 442 brand. The car is definitely a '64. How else can I tell.

joe_padavano

Sorry, but you are mistaken. There is no fuzz on this whatsoever. There were exactly 2,999 442s built in the 1964 model year, of ALL body styles and trim levels. The 1964 442 package could be ordered on either the F85 or the Cutlass models. Note that for the 1964 model year, all Olds A-body convertibles were badged as "Cutlass" models.

Production breakdown of 1964 442s by body style is as follows:

F-85 Club coupe 148
F-85 4-door sedan 3
F-85 Deluxe 4-door sedan 7
Cutlass Club coupe 563
Cutlass Holiday coupe 1,842
Cutlass convertible 436


Total Production 2,999 (go ahead, do the math)


Again, this means that there were 436 Cutlass convertibles built with the 442 package. Holiday Coupes are hardtops (1,842 produced). Club Coupes are post cars (148 F85s and 563 Cutlii). Note the ten four door cars also. Every single one of these 2,999 cars came with a four speed manual trans.

And again, the numbers above are JUST for cars built with the 442 package. In the 1964 model year there were a total of 12,822 Cutlass convertibles built; the 436 with the 442 package are included in that larger number.

Fun71

I had no idea there were 4 door 442s. Those could be nicknamed 4442s.

joe_padavano

There are more than ten of them now...

Keep in mind that the RPO B09 package was based on the Olds Police Apprehender package.

JohnnyBs68S

My guess is that if the OP has a '64 convertible Cutlass w/ an AT and 442 badges, that the badges did not come on the car from the factory. That, or the 4-sp was swapped out at some point w/ an AT.

Does it still have the 330 4bbl? Was there any difference between this engine in a '64 442 vs. a Cutlass?

joe_padavano

Ya think?
It's VERRRRY easy to tell if the car was originally a 4spd car. Don't hold your breath.

The 442 engine was 310 HP. Lesser Cutlii got 290 HP. The difference was primarily the cam.

LancJack

Joe, after what you said I've dug into this further and the more I look it's proving you are correct. THANK YOU! Here's a comment from an old Hemming's article on the 4-4-2 origin: "Oldsmobile’s engineers discovered that the new 310hp engine ran at a much higher rpm range than the Jetaway automatic transmission at the time could handle-it kept blowing seals-so the new performance car would have to make do with just the manual transmission." In '65, when they used the 400 cid they had a beefed up Jetaway AT that was offered as an option that year.

I found an article on the Drive-Tribe site that noted a Cutlass convertible was advertised as a 4-4-2 at a 2016 Mecum auction as "a rare, special order automatic transmission" and was actually sold as a 4-4-2. However, no records have been found that any such vehicle was ever made. Also, the badging on '64 Cutlass should be on both front fenders in front of the wheel wells and on the right trunk lid. It did not have a badge on the grille as on mine.

I believe what I must have is a Cutlass conv with the 330 4 bbl but only the 290 hp. There is also no dual-snorkel air cleaner with a 4-4-2 label. I should have looked at this more closely when I got it, but since it was a gift I just assumed it was what my kids were told it was. They had an appraissor look at it before it was bought and he didn't say anything so I assumed the AT must have been an option. The only reason I'm digging into this now is because I thought I would go to some shows this summer and wanted to make sure I represented it correctly. The guy my kids bought this from on Long Island wouldn't respond to my emails and phone calls when I first got it so this might be why.

It's all good though, it was a tremendous gift, they got it for a reasonable price, the car is in great shape, and it's a blast to drive. Live and learn. Thanks again for your help. Jack

OLDSter Ralph

One of the 10 4 doors was a "Baby Blue" with bucket seats in Iowa.

joe_padavano

The factory four door cars did not come with bucket seats, so that brings into question the originality of that car. If it's this same one that I saw at the 2009 Nationals, there was some question about authenticity. I have no first-hand knowledge of that car.

joe_padavano

Yeah, the notorious yellow one-of-none car. That particular car has been discussed and debunked here many times as it has frequently come up for sale with unverified claims and (to be charitable) "questionable" documentation.

I'll also note that you should be very skeptical of any info you read on third party sites, magazines, or any non-factory source material. There is a LOT of incorrect info out there. Hemmings gets stuff wrong just as frequently as others do, which is one reason why I dropped my subscription to Muscle Machines years ago.

Koda

Plus, converted is a bad term. They were built, on the line, with an option package. A Hurst Olds was converted. A 442 was built, and, although some years it was a package, and some years it was a model, it was the same thing.

joe_padavano

Koda brings up a good point. Not to nit pick, but the OP's terminology is not precise. Factory built cars were just that - built on the assembly line at the factory. "Converted" implies that some work was done to the car after it left the factory. While in some cases this was the case (think dealer-installed packages for power brakes or cruise control, for example), the 2,999 442s built in the 1964 model year were assembled that way from the start, on the assembly line. There was no "conversion" from a prior configuration.

LancJack

Question to all - since I'm new on here I'm not familiar with all the terms used. "OP" was used several times in this thread. What does that mean? Thanks.

joe_padavano

OP stands for Original Poster - the person who started the thread. In this case, that's you. Not to be confused with PO, as in Previous Owner.

Fun71

Or being very mad...