bigjohn16678

I'm at wits end and I have posted on the Team Buick site also. I bought a 1977 Buick Electra a few years ago with a 403 Olds engine in it. The first problem I need to take care of is the missing emission sensors and vacuum switches. I bought the few I could find but now I have another problem.

I'm set to move in a few weeks and the county I'm moving to in PA requires emission testing. I haven't found a reliable vacuum diagram either in my Chilton repair manual or online. I found many and they are all different. I need this car to run right and pass emission testing as well. Going with antique or classic tags are not an option as this will be my everyday driver. Does anyone have access to or a link to any diagrams I could try to use?

My biggest problem is the air cleaner is missing (the previous owner put an Edelbrock hat on it) so I will not be able to use the proper switch there. I have an air cleaner from a 1978 Electra 350 Buick motor but this has just a thermal vacuum switch and a flapper and most diagrams show a 3 port switch on the air cleaner (TVS). The diagram with the air pump will not help either unless someone knows how to decipher the mess without installing one. It didn't come with an air pump but many of the diagrams show one. I think Cali emissions required the air pump.

I'm pretty much in the poorhouse since my divorce but I got the cars back. She wouldn't know what to do with them anyway. Any help would be appreciated. The attached pic is the closest I have found to what is on my engine.

Anyone have a spare air cleaner I can purchase that has the TVS switch on it?

Oldsguy

Welcome to CO. I hope our members can help you out.

crazy'boutOlds

I may have one or two.

bigjohn16678

That would be great! I can't find the TVS so I can only hope you find one and it has the TVS switch intact. PM me if you have one. Thanks!

Olds64

Does the county you are moving to just do a tail pipe emissions test, or do they also inspect for factory emissions equipment? If it is just an emissions test you could probably tune the engine to pass the test without having to worry about factory emissions equipment.

bigjohn16678

I talked to an emission station near where we are moving. The man who answered the phone, Bernie, said the parts have to be there including the cat and air cleaner. The cat must work but the others just have to be on the car. Tailpipe emissions are exempt for this car.

crazy'boutOlds

I have two of them pics are on there way.

crazy'boutOlds

Pm me an offer if it's what you're looking for.

bigjohn16678

Looks like the baby I need. Would you happen to have the offset carb bolt for this? I'm not sure if it needs one. I never had an Olds motor before.
I'd make you an offer but I don't want to insult you. I'm pretty broke until Friday the first. Give me a figure in a PM and we'll go from there.

joe_padavano

First problem - throw away the Chilton manual and get a real factory Chassis Service Manual. I prefer used original paper copies to someone's scanned-in CD. There are over a dozen on ebay at this moment, priced at $6.50 and up.

bigjohn16678

I snagged the 1977 Buick service manual for $6.50 + $6.00 shipping. I didn't know they actually still existed! Thanks for the info Joe! All I ever used was the store bought Chilton manual. It's getting ragged lately and I hope this manual gives me the info I need to make this car right for emission inspection.

bigjohn16678

This might be a little off topic but does anyone know the actual weight of the 403 Olds engine? I rebuilt the entire suspension on my 1978 Buick Electra 20 years ago. It has a Buick 350 in it. I need to know the weight of the 403 to check if the front springs will do the job in my 1977 with the 403 in it. What I did was make sure the car could tow my DJ trailer. Although I retired from the biz a few years ago (I might go back), I installed the rear springs from the 78 to the 77 yesterday with a pair of new Monroe load handler shocks. It's a little tight and the front went down a bit. I need to know the weight so I can check if the front springs will work well in the 77 from the 78. The thinking here is if I get the front up about 1 inch, this may even out the weight of the entire car front to back. It worked for the 78, I'm hoping it will work for the 77 without going out and buying new springs.
The springs are still in great shape and would hate to let them just get scrapped. Yes, I'm crapping out the 78 because the floorboards are all but gone. I'm moving the best of the 78 to the 77 then it's goodbye to the car I have driven for over 20 years. Anyone know if the weight of these two engines are significantly different? Thanks again folks!

joe_padavano

The weights are close enough that you won't notice a difference. If anything, the 403 is a couple of pounds lighter due to the windowed main webs and thinner wall castings. Buford motors were always on the light side as far as GM's V8s were concerned, but there will be no major difference with a 403.

bigjohn16678

Thanks Joe, you've done it again. My 78 had the same problem my 77 is having now and the heavier/higher front springs evened it out. The alignment guy didn't care for it much and anyone who does alignments by the book had no clue how to fix it. Maybe this time when I replace the upper control arm bushings, I'll put the shafts in that give it more positive camber adjustment. Thanks again.

sicky olds

you sure you need a cat with that old of a car? usually classics that didnt come stock with them get away without having it and i know in texas here if you have classic plates you dont need the inspection, probably something to still fix imho but worth looking into at the same time.

bigjohn16678

Yes, it does require a cat. The bracket to hold the enormous factory cat is there. This will be my everyday driver so classic tags are not an option. Pa does require all emissions components be present. The do not need to work, they have to be there.

sicky olds

ah ok, just wanted to make sure on that one and tried to help. oh and btw
WELCOME TO CO!!!!

bigjohn16678

I've looked for loopholes in the law all week. They pretty much closed all the holes I knew. It's been about 10 years since I needed an emissions sticker in this state so I was not up on the new laws. The laws did take me by surprise. I remember the last time I needed an emissions sticker in this state, you could get an exemption if you could prove you drove under 5k a year even without classic/antique tags. That was the last loophole I had and it's gone. I still have the extra odometer, could be too many did the same thing.

sicky olds

yeah i think ohio is the same way, i dont run cats on either of my cars lol, 69 didnt have them and the caprie someone found a stickr that said it wasnt one that came equipped with it lol (i do have the set though in the garage)

joe_padavano

All gasoline powered cars sold in the US from the 1975 model year and up require a catalytic converter by law. Federal laws specifically prohibit removal but this is never enforced at a private owner level (repair shops HAVE been cited for violating this law, however). States may or may not enforce the requirement. Here in Virginia (and again, your local laws will vary) even cars that no longer require emissions testing (25 years and older) DO require a catalyst to be in place for the annual safety inspection. Removal is grounds for safety inspection failure. This is specifically called out in the VA state inspection requirements.

There are lots of legal high-flow monolithic catalysts available now that pose no more restriction than a section of straight pipe the same length. Yes, the old pellet style cats were horrible, but these are fine. Cost starts around $50 if you shop around. I use one on my Custom Cruiser.

sicky olds

sorry joe but everytime i read your posts this is what i think of, like i said i have the cats i just haven't installed them, this part of texas at least dont require it for there safety inspection so idk, havent been cited for it (yet)

bigjohn16678

I haven't heard of anyone getting cited but I know guys that put a cat on for inspection and then take it off right after. I'm not sure how that would work, getting cited. I do know that the state police can do an "on the spot" visual safety inspection and I'm sure they know guys remove them. I did it too for a few years up until they came out with the full flow cats. I know the factory one had pellets. I used to keep it with all the pellets knocked out. I did get caught and failed an inspection once because the guy found the cat too loud and knew right away it was empty. I had to get a cat put on then. That had me PO'ed because I just had a custom 2 1/2 inch exhaust installed a few days before. The replacement cat at that time was not the right size. Back then you had to use certain cats on certain vehicles. Reducers on both ends killed the nice exhaust work.

bigjohn16678

Thanks for the welcome guys! I've done much work so far. Would you guys be interested if I post a cost tally sheet? If so, where should I put it?

bigjohn16678

Once again I must turn to the collective knowledge of this forum. I found and installed the emissions parts but now I'm having trouble with setting the timing. The indicator isn't there! I have the chassis manual but it doesn't give a clear indication of any part number for the indicator. I have the 350 Buick motor that has one on it but I'm not sure if it will work on the 403 Olds engine. I must ask if anyone has a parts motor that may have this still on it. If so, PM me please.

joe_padavano

Unfortunately, it's common for the plastic timing tab on the later Olds motors to be broken off, and no the Buick part isn't even close. Any 307 motor in a wrecking yard is a donor. Also, the tab used to still be available in the GM parts system, but that may have changed recently.

bigjohn16678

I was afraid of that. I looked on the internet but found all but the 403. Crossing my fingers that someone here has one. How about you Crazy?

crazy'boutOlds

I may have one. let me look when i get home today

bigjohn16678

Hope you have good news when you get home.

crazy'boutOlds

I have a 76 Cutlass I'm riping apart. I'll look and see if it's there. I know I have the older ones, but they don't go as high. Pm me an offer, If you want.

Railguy

I'm from Pa and I never had an emissions test.If everything in place nobody checks it.Don't know about new comers though.Where are you moving to.I'm in south central Pa.
Railguy

bigjohn16678

I will get with you Crazy but as I have said, I would like you to PM me with what you think is fair for the pointer.
Railguy, I live in Bedford county now but I'm moving to Cambria and they require all the parts be there for inspection. Emissions stickers are required there.

Railguy

I live in Franklin co. never heard of an emissions sticker?Good luck.
railguy

crazy'boutOlds

http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=71670
I found this one on another site. It should do the trick.

bigjohn16678

I'm pretty sure the 455 pointer doesn't cross with the 403. I've done some searching myself and I found loads of pointers for all other Olds and Buick motors, none for the 403. I'll just keep an eye toward Ebay. Maybe I'll get lucky.

crazy'boutOlds

Are you sure? I thought all of them were interchangeable, except the 307? I have s SBO timing pointer on my 455.

bigjohn16678

I checked Summit racing and other sites. They list all other engines but the 403. I thought it strange also. Since I found no listing for the 403, I'm thinking it is by itself. Anyone know different?

J-(Chicago)

PM sent.

joe_padavano

All SBOs are the same. The 1964 330 uses a unique timing tab because of the one-year-only driver's side water pump inlet, but other than that they should all interchange. The 307 tabs to to 20 deg advance. Most metal ones only go to 10 deg.

bigjohn16678

Does that mean you think the one on my Buick 350 engine will work?

joe_padavano

I'll try again:


SBO = small block Oldsmobile. The Buick 350 is a Buick motor, which is not an Oldsmobile motor. Note the distributor in the front on the Buick vs. in the back on the Olds. The two motors have nothing in common.