jimibegin

Hello all,

Pretty new to the forum but glad to be in the company of so many Olds enthusiasts!

I am restoring a 1970 Olds - It was a Cutlass Supreme Convertible, but since the numbers did not match on the 350 Rocket, I'm putting in a big block 455 that I picked up and turning it into a 442 Convertible clone. I was surprised to see how little content differs between the 70 Supreme Convertible and the 442 Convertible. Grilles, badging, rear bumper, trumpet exhaust and a few other minor details (feel free to step in here).

My question is, does anybody have any good recommendations for an engine rebuilder in (or really close to) the metro Detroit area? I've got the edelbrock heads and a variety of parts gathered, just not super confident about putting it together myself. Not looking for a super high-end/ expensive place - just somebody who REALLY knows Olds!

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can offer!

Jimi B.

oldcutlass

Welcome Jim, pic's are always appreciated. If you state your loction, it may help in finding a shop close to you.

m455sx

while your at it make it w30 clone

Allan R

Jimi, Welcome to C.O.
I'd suggest that you also look for either a TH400 or a 200R4 trans for the car. Bolting in a built 455 is going to play hell on a stock TH350 especially if you plan to put your foot into it. Check your rear gears, in 70 a lot of those cars came with 2.56:1 or 2.78:1. If you're going to go big with the engine, at least go with 3:42s in the pumpkin.

As far as 442 vert and CS vert? The body is identical with the different badging and cosmetics. The big differences were in the engines. The 70 CS vert came standard with a 310 HP 350cid 4bbl engine. It could be upgraded to a 455 though.

All 70 W30's got a 455 370HP engine with a different cam, intake and distributor IIRC, plus they got the W25 hood and dual exhaust/rear dual cutout bumper to mention a few more of the goodies. Anyone who looks at your VIN or Cowl tag will be able to spot the cloning right away. Your cars VIN will start out 34267 whereas a 442 will start out 34467

As far as cloning it goes? Everyone has their own opinion. Do it the way you want it to be done so you can be proud of it when you're finished and out cruising. Look at it this way. If you don't like the clone? You can always 'restore' it back to the original specs. Glad you found and kept the project car. 16 is a lot different from now isn't it?

Sorry I can't help with builder recommendations. One thing I've found over the past few years though: not too many shops know Olds like some of the old timers on this site. Hope you find the right shop.

1970cs

Try the OCA chapter out of Detroit!
http://www.motorcityrockets.com/chapter_info.htm

Pat

jimibegin

Thanks for the welcomes. I'll try to get some pictures posted soon.
Even though she's looking a little tired right now, I still put some decent miles on her every summer and I'm as motivated as ever to get the restoration process rolling. Just two things standing in my way (as usual) - Time and $$!

DENT

Welcome to the forum,

OLD SKL 69

Welcome! Post some pics when you get a chance.

jimibegin

Here's a recent picture of my 70 Cutlass Supreme Convertible. I'm slowly stockpiling engine parts and getting ready for the rebuild (maybe next year). I want to find an Olds guru in the area that has done lots of Olds motors to assemble the motor. My skills are okay, but I don't want to risk making mistakes and blowing up a hefty investment!

ziff396

I've been through the clone thing before. I get way more positive comments on just the way my "Cutlass" is done other than the "Is it real" questions etc dealt with before. There are more (especially SS Chevelles) on the road today than were built it seems. Especially with survivor rate. JMO

Allan R

Gee, I don't know how to say this except to be politely blunt. If that's a 70 vert? Someone has done a whole front clip swap on your car. That front end is from a 1972 Cutlass or 72 Cutlass S - the grills should be 'eggcrate' design for 72. Completely different front rad support, hood, bumper, grilles, trim, and headlight buckets. Note: if it has 70 fenders, they are rare to find in good shape. Can you post a pic of the back of the car? Maybe post a pic of the cowl tag under the hood? It will provide more info.

Check your VIN. I hope it starts out with 34267 - that would be a 70 vert. If it starts out 3J67 - that's 1972. The front end of a 70 vert should look like this:


Compare with how OEM 72 front end looks like:


If the back of your car looks like the next pic, either it's a 72 or someone swapped out the rear bumper too.


The back of the 1970 CS vert has verical tail lights and doesn't have the OLDSMOBILE lettering across the deck lid.

Olds_71_442

I've never been one to fix a car up for myself to worry about the resale value. I like it to look as good as it can be. As far as I'm concerned, the Cutlass S was boring looking compared to the 442, which is why I dressed mine up the way I did. I have no plans on selling it.......ever. That is why I don't care about resale value.

I'm all for doing it the way it suits you.

1970cs

x2 on what Allan said! I tried posting at work but this web site is being dumped by my computer at work.

Pat

jimibegin

It is a 1970 - I have NO IDEA where the grille came from (any ideas?) - never seen another like it, I was thinking possibly F85?? The back bumper is correct for a 70. I also know the front bumper is incorrect for a 70, but I like the round parking lights better than the rectangles. I'm wondering if I can fit the 70' 442 grilles in with the later model front bumper or if I'll have to replace additional front end items (bumper/clip, etc?). It looks like the 70 grilles are much slimmer. I do intend to restore it to my liking versus "exactly correct", but will probably get pretty close to a 70' 442 W30 clone. Don't really care about resale or "is it real" issues - I'm keeping this car until I can no longer drive! I think most people know there were only a handful of real 70 442 W30 convertibles made - heck, there are probably more clones out there now with all the aftermarket parts available.

RetroRanger

I think the grill is a 72 s grill the 72 supreme grill is shown in Allans pics

QMaster

Welcome aboard!
I do not believe that the '70 grilles will fit. Sounds like your choice is to clone it as is with '71/'72 parts in front, or put the front end back to '70 spec parts. I think all three years are good looking. Sometimes I like the '70 better, and sometimes I like the '71/72 better. Tough decision...

oldcutlass

Any more pic's??

Allan R

Well for starters the grilles are the standard for all f85 (4 door sedan only) Cutlass (2 and 4 door) and Cutlass S Sports coupes. Some Cutlass S with the W29 or W30 package however got the 442 recessed grilles, which look very cool and have exactly the same profile as all 1971 grilles. You won't be able to install 1970 grilles on the 72 rad support without a massive amount of modification, so I'd just leave that rad support alone. 70 grilles have a completely different mounting and are separate from the 71/72 plastic stone shield.

If your plan is to restore the look of the 1970 grilles, you will also need to change the hood and front trim which is also a lot of extra cost. As you say though your plan is to just keep it to enjoy. Cosmetics don't affect the way the car drives. I also like the 71/72 front end styling. Only thing I'd do to be consistent with the CS styling is change the grilles to either a 442 style, or the egg crate design.

Since appearances aren't high priority (good for you) what I would focus on is all the safety related items that will keep it in top condition for you to enjoy. (brakes, exhaust, fuel, glass, engine/trans, wipers etc)

And BTW, your comment about the number of clones out there is spot on.

Olds_71_442

I think he has the best of both worlds. I always liked the 71/72 grille and bumper better than the 70 and I always liked the 70 rear bumper better than the 71/72. Always loved the look of that 70 rear bumper. If mine ever gets bad, I might replace it with a 70.

Allan R

Eddie, why wait? You know you can get someone to buy that 71/72 rear cutout from you no problem. If you're going to drive that car, might as well be the way you really want it?? Then you'd also need to get new lenses. BTW, IMO the wiring to the 70 rear housing is a lot more sensible than the 71/72 housings.

Olds_71_442

I'll probably keep running it while it's still good. I don't mind the 71/72 rear bumper. I just like the 70 a little better, is all. I like the looks of the two vertical slits.

jimibegin

I bought the fiberglass hood/chrome lockdowns years ago from Year One and I was planning on getting the hood tongue for it. I have reproduction 70' 442 grilles that I got from BAP, so I'd really like to stick with the 70 look if possible.
My guess is I might have to replace the front bumper (it is raised in the middle) and supports though if I go that route. I put an aluminum radiator in a few years back (it was overheating) - so I've slightly modified the front supports, but I think you are right in assuming the mods to fit those 70 442 grilles in will be daunting. Looks like I've got my work cut out for me!
Worst case scenario, I guess I could have a "parts sale" and go with the 72' 442 look.

Allan R

If you're going to go with the 70 look? Go for it. There will probably be others who could buy your front bumper, stone shield, grills and rad support to help finance the changes you want to do. 71/72 share a large number of front end parts, only real significant identifier on the 71/72 is the bump on the 72 where the taller grills attach to the support.

Yes, you'll have to replace the front bumper and the bumper braces too even though you like the 72 bumper - it won't fit right. Good News though!! You won't have trouble with finding all the front parts you want. Almost everything you need to complete the visualization of your project including the rad support is reproduced now ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/70-Cutlass-R...6a461d&vxp=mtr ) It comes down to $$ really. BTW, you'll also need different head light bezels, buckets and 'hockey sticks' for the front end reveal. Was the hood you bought from Y1 the one with metal liner? The early versions I've heard have some fitment issues - nothing that can't be overcome with time and $$.

Jimmy_B

Hey, welcome to the site Jimi B

Sincerely,

Jimmy B

jimibegin

Allan R. - You know your stuff - You were right on the money with the 72 Cutlass S front end - they must have crashed it and replaced the front end with the S parts before I got the car (i've had it 20+ years).

I think my mind's set on going back to the original 1970 look and adding the 442/W30 badging. I will need to finance the parts gathering by selling the 72 parts but I still drive it quite a bit in the summer so I have time to look for a "parts car". I'm guessing any 1970 Cutlass, 442 or F-85 would work. Since I have the fiberglass hood/pins & 70' 442 grille, here's what else I have so far for my 1970 parts list:

- Front bumper with parking lights
- Radiator support/brackets
- Hood tongue
- Hood extension moldings
- Fender extension moldings
- Headlight bezels and housings

Anything else obvious I am missing? Any suggestions or parts referrals are greatly appreciated!!

Jimi B.
-

Allan R

Sounds like you have a plan in mind. FWIW, while you're putting your inventory of parts together, keep driving the car and enjoying it.

Since you're going to look for a 70 donor car, also extend your search to 4 door Cutlass and Vista Cruiser. They all used the same front ends. Who knows? You might get lucky and find one that was hit on the side or back. - A perfect donor.

Also will need:
the headlight buckets/fillers,
front bumper braces and supports
front signal light buckets (more than just the lenses)
Hood latch and lever (slightly different than 71/72)
442 numerals all around (means welding up old holes for the Cutlass S moldings and trim)

You've got a good start on your project. What I'd do is buy a 1970 CSM and AM first. Then study the heck out of what you're planning so it takes shape in your mind and you can put together a work plan that meets your time lines.

jimibegin

Already got a couple of leads on parts cars. Now its just a matter of saving for all the parts. I think I am going to concentrate on shoring up my parts list for rebuilding the big block and just bide my time patiently while I wait for a parts car to surface that has all of the 70 front end parts that I need (in one fell swoop) for a reasonable price.

In the mean time, I need to research machine shops and do a heck of a lot more research on the entire restore project from A to Z!

Appreciate the advice from everybody. Feel free to chime in with any other scholarly Olds wisdom!