costpenn

This will be a much less detailled log than the "Fell Into My Lap" thread I did on the W-30 - which for some and my bank account might be a good thing.

I've always liked the 71 look the best of the 70-72's and after coming back from the Nationals I've been looking for something to occupy my time, as well as use up some of the leftover parts from the last couple of restos. I settled on searching for my next project - a 71 Supreme in Matador Red with White (Pearl) interior, no A/C, manual transmission, no rust, no vinyl top, with paint & body already at local car show quality. After searching for a while I found a affordable car that fit the bill except for the transmission and bald top requirements. Seeing pics of a nice, well done halo style top against the red made me forget that requirement, and I've recently done a manual trans conversion on the 72 so today, the 71 arrived home.

The goal on this one is a bone stock appearing car that I won't worry about taking to local shows or cruises. Let's see if I can keep the MAWing to a minimum.

Overview:
1971 Cutlass Supreme Coupe (4257)
Assembled At Framingham MA plant (G)
Trim Tag Date - 05B (second week of May 71)
Upper Body Color - A (White)
Lower Body Color - 75 (Matador Red)
Trim Code - 977 (White Bucket Seat)
Options are P/S, P/B, console, rear end discussed below. The wheels are 15 inch SS3's with brand new tires - do not know what the original wheels were, but this car will get SS1's.

Engine
Block - 2 (350 Gas), VIN derivative on block indicates 30M - which means it came out of a 1970 Lansing car.
Heads - 6 1970 350 heads
Carb, air cleaner, and intake are almost brand new Edlebrock parts (Car came with the original 2V carb and intake that were on this motor)
Exhaust manifolds are "1" & "4" - pretty decent shape.
Distributor Is a GM HEI unit
Water pump/pulleys/belts is the usual misaligned mess
Original voltage regulator, wiper motor, temp sending unit, horn relay, and radiator still on the car.
Worst thing to fix under the hood is that someone pop riveted new wheel well seal flaps to the wells. Looks awful and the wells are in really nice shape. Other than that, underhood will be a breeze to get looking OK after pulling the engine to freshen, reseal, and install that 4 speed standard size crank I got from Chris. Will also install the W-31 valves, 70 4 speed non W-30 cam and the high compression cast pistons in addition to going back to a cast 70 4v intake, Q-Jet, air cleaner housing and points type ignition.

Will probably do a front end rebuild while the motor is out

Transmission
LA code '71 Turbo 350 - I think it is original to the car. Shifts great - too bad it won't be around for too much longer. Note - car sometimes has to be in neutral to start due to back drive mis adjustment. I pull up on the linkage on the column under the hood and then it starts in park.

Rear End
Surprise - a R3 code 2.56 with Limited Slip differential and I'm pretty sure it is original to the car. Generally in very good condition under the car with the exception of the hacks who hung the brand new dual exhaust with hangers that look like rebar.

Interior
Has a modern radio hidden in the ashtray compartment. Might keep this feature if I can figure out how to turn it on. Needs new window cranks, seat back and aprons, heater vent *****, gauge bezel, arm rest backing plates, and a few other minor things - everything else is acceptable.

Trunk
Car is completely missing the jack assembly, spare and lug wrench. Also needs a trunk mat but spatter is done and looks good.

Trim
Bumpers are new repos that need to be adjusted, all trim is there with a few very minor dings and scrapes. Will pull off and polish as time goes along.

Will have a bunch of questions for the 71 experts out there soon.

Nice to be writing again. I've kind of missed it.

70wcar

I always liked those cars as well, my Uncle's neighbor in Milwaukee had a Red 1971 Cutlass Supreme with a black interior, red SS-II's and 4 speed. I always thought that was a sharp car!

Good luck trying to keep the MAW's to a minimum... I was just going to freshen up my paint and my W30 is all over the garage, basement and living room! LOL

Jim

oldcutlass

Looks like a solid start. It'll make a great driver.

costpenn

Still no actual work done on the car except for replacing the radio and door ***** with the correct ones. I am in parts gathering mode - today received a really nice set of SS1's for the car, and also got in a shipment yesterday of Goodmark repro parts bought on Rock Auto for significantly less than at the Olds specialty houses. Have gathered a Hurst Comp plus shifter, flywheel, 4 speed crank, pedals, and most of the major linkage M/T conversion pieces. After a post here, am also investigating putting a M22Z trans in with a 2.98 first gear that would be passably compatible with the 2.56 rear gears. Hope to start tearing into it soon.

Mr Shifty Sidney

Hopping on board. Good luck with this build.

Don W

oldspackrat

Joe,
Your parts will soon be there. I hid one of the items from myself real good & just now found it.

drop top olds

Very nice starting point. I will enjoy watching this one progress as well.

costpenn

Looks like I lied - this will be detailed. (3 hours)

Today I began the actual resto work on this project. I calculate I already have over 30 hours surveying the car, developing a scope of work, and determining what parts I'll need to get.

The car is still up at work, and won't be bringing it home until after my son's wedding next Saturday, so I thought I'd begin organizing and working on the parts I have at home that I've already acquired from various sources.

Began by starting a pile of things to send out for bead blasting. I had to disassemble the clutch/brake pedal Assy, grind the tabs down on the jackstaff to get the mech off the tube (the staff will need to be plated). Also pulled the choke tube out of the old 2V manifold that came along with the car in addition to all the vac. fittings I'll be needing. I think I can save the P/B booster tube - it was pretty badly bent up. Pulled the TCS switch off the bracket for plating. Lastly pulled the almost new repo center caps and trim rings off the SS1's for additional detailing before installing them. Used a pretty aggressive scotch brite pad that had the pleasant unintended consequence of getting a OE appearance on the finish. To me, the repo trim rings are too shiny and the pad gives it a very light matte finish.Pic of the trim rings shows the two in front with this finish - the two in the back as they looked before.

cdrod

Hey Joe:
That is a really sweet looking Cutlass Supreme. I have always had a soft spot in my heart for the '71 Supremes with the Halo top and the wide chrome molding running down the sides. My first car in high school was a ten-year old '71 Cutlass Supreme convertible that I had to reassemble; my dad and I found it sitting behind a barn up on blocks with no wheels, engine, trans, or interior. I spent the better part of the next year scrounging through junk yards looking for parts to put it back together. I drove that car through high school and most of college - good memories!

What are your plans for the 15" SSIII rims you're taking off the car? If the price is right, I'd like to buy them from you for a future project I have on the back burner. Let me know.
Rodney

costpenn

Rod, thanks for the offer, but they have already been sold and paid for by another CO member.

I am still not a huge vinyl top fan, but the halo style is definately an improvement for me.

costpenn

MAW (mission) creep setting in early (3 hours)

Today completed refinishing 3 of the 4 wheel trim rings, but of course had to straighten/fix a few dents. I swore I was just going to polish them and be done with it. The 4th trim ring I discovered has a major (to me) dent in a very hard to get to place, so I'm off to Dreiling's house to see if he might have a good core that matches the others.

Next refinished a couple of other miscellaneous items like a windsheild washer squirter, clutch/brake pedal cross bolt and bushings, and power brake intake manifold tube. Will be able to reuse all of these after changing out the nylon bushings on the pedal cross bolt.

Finished with looking at all the used M/T linkage items. After a lot of sorting, I believe all this stuff in the picture is right, but will have to find a bolt in 7169 blade since this is an aftermarket shifter. Still looking for that clutch rod and Z bar, but parts place has the combo in the right finishes for about 110.00. Will also need all the Z bar studs and hardware, back drive hardware, return spring and hardware along with flat and spring washers. I already have those weird looking retaining clips. Picture shows the refinished 1-2 rod after wire wheeling and painting with the Eastwood's Clear Zinc paint.

bigin1978

I have had my SS1's for 25 years. I assume that my trim rings are original.
they are fairly shinny. not chrome shiny, but not matte either. are you going to refinish the wheels. I would like to see what you do step by step if you don't mind, mine the paint is pretty shot. the chrome is decent. thanks

costpenn

Thankfully, I won't have to paint the areas between the "spokes" - the paint is in really nice shape. Someone sells a mask for covering the chrome during painting but I hear they are awful. I did paint a set way way back in 1993 and I remember masking all 4 wheels off by hand - took me almost a day to do the set.

The trim rings I finished don't look nearly as matte as they do in the picture. The stupid flourescent light plays Hell with my picture taking. The matte is not nearly as pronounced as let's say a '68 trim ring.

costpenn

No work today but spent more dough than I should have buying a complete original 7169 console shifter that already has been restored. The repo ones look to have the H on the blade too big and too low, and the shifter itself is pretty different where the blade goes into the shifter body from the OE design.
Have decided to go with a M20 case tranny with tge M22Z gear set with the 2.98 first gear. The math stack up is with that trans gear set, the 2.56 rear and the G70x14 Wide Ovals, it will feel like a stock M20 (2.52 1st) with a 3.08 rear. Not optimal for off the line, but a nice balance for highway and city cruising.

Lastly yesterday for fun I finished up the power brake hose/pipe assembly. I wish I had taken a picture of what this original assembly looked like before I started:

1) Straightened the bent pipe with light rapping of a hammer on a vise.
2) Sanded the pipe with 80 grit, then 120, then 320, followed by wirewheeling
3) Wirewheeled the original band clamps (they have a big diamond shape surrounding a sideways "U" stamped in them) and then painted with Eastwood's Phosphate.
4) Replaced the small tube to valve cover bracket clamp - the original was badly bent.
5) Replaced the original rubber hose with some thick wall reinforced special heater hose I bought from NAPA. Interesting note: I compared the original hose from this 350 car with the original hose I took off the W-30, and the 350 hose is about 1 1/2 inches longer.
6) The check valve had been replaced, so I dug a OE one out of my collection and after a little cleaning with Brake Kleen called it good.

costpenn

Starting On The Car Itself (4 hours)

Started the day by getting the Wide Ovals mounted on the SS1's. Was surprised that they needed a lot of weights on a couple of the wheels to get them balanced. I mounted up these wheels and have the ones that came off already sold to another CO member.

Undercar is still amazingly rust free. MAW on the gas tank - might find a build sheet on top of the tank since it is a Framingham car and the tank's never been out. (I really dislike pulling the tank, but it's not worth the possibility of leaks or corrosion playing hell with fuel delivery) Also will have to replace all the springs on the car since the front end goes up and down like a yo-yo and the rears have some coil spring spacers installed.

Removed the hood and discarded the hood insulation resulting in a rain of dust and fibers everywhere. Also drained the radiator and disconnected battery. Tomorrow tear down begins.

costpenn

Some more tear down and more parts that will be needed (2 hours)

Continued the engine bay tear down. Removed the alternator and brackets, wiper motor, cowl screen and weatherstrip (without ruining them), P/S hoses, & the original 2 row Harrison radiator. Know it is hard to believe, but I was also able to save all four original radiator saddle bushings, the weatherstrip that goes along the top of the radiator core, and the side seals. Radiator isn't leaking and does not look to be scaling a lot inside, but I'm going to get it rodded out anyway.
Also removed the fan and spacer. The spacer seems to be swaged onto the fan - will write up a separate post about this.

Incidentally, the P/S brackets were completely missing the lower one, and the lower alternator one looks a homemade rig. Oldsmobile accessory brackets and pullies has to be the most problematical of all the GM divisions .

Front light harness us OK, But the engine harness is junk because of the HEI conversion someone did and wires that have become too brittle in places. Anyone have one? For Cutlass - not 442.

No work for a few days - had a "procedure" done on me and can do any lifting for a while. Got to be in shape for MCACN!

costpenn

Back to it (3 hours today, 1/2 hour last Thursday)

Continued the engine bay diassembly. It is so nice to deal with rust free parts. Further review of the front lamp wire harness (will be reused) and how it has never been off the car convinces me this cat has always had the plastic tube sleeved harness insulation. I know everyone says it is a 72 only thing, but mine has it on this 2nd week of May 71 car.
More and more problems with the belts and pullies on this car. The P/S pump attaching hardware is all a jumbled mess and will require going through my used fastener collection to get it right.
Power brake booster is original to the car with minimal pitting and has never been removed. Will be sending to Gregoire for refinishing along with some other goodies.
Removed the afternarket carb & manifold to sell. What was below the valley pan is the reason my company is still in business. It is easily the most sludged up Olds motor I have ever seen - see the pics of the extreme nastiness.
Patton came up last Thursday prior to our pilgrimage to MCACN last weekend. Gave him the hood hinges/springs, TCS switch, alternator, and console for the 4 speed conversion to do his magic on. He climbed under the dash as commented this is one of the most corrosion free cars he has ever reviewed. Also noticed an exterior radio mast tucked up under the dash. Someone throughout the years had changed out the windscreen, but did not install the version with the integral radio antenna. So, I'm going to be going the radio delete route - just too cool. I have another thread that has already addressed some of my questions on this.

costpenn

Whoops, forgot to post pics of yesterday's work.

oldcutlass

Wow, although not the most sludge I've ever seen in an Olds, I would have never expected that to be inside the engine of that car.

Rocketbrian

Your 71 looks beautiful. I especially like the SS1s with that color and nothing is better looking than the original belted wide ovals in 14 inch, in my opinion. I can see how you have a mess with the belts, as you have an extra one for the power steering pump. As you probably know, non-aired cars only had one pulley on the ps pump and it was smaller in diameter.
That is a pile of sludge, I suppose attributable to lack of oil changes and short trip operation. I'll enjoy following your progress.

costpenn

Thanks Brian/Eric. What kind of is upsetting is that the place I bought the car from - Southern Motors in Michigan - pulled the original 2bbl. intake and carb off the car and replaced it with the Edelbrock stuff no more than 6 months ago. They put in a new valley pan, so they HAD to have seen the mess that they just kind of covered up. In addition to all that lifter valley sludge, they blasted the valve covers inside out with fine metal shot and didn't clean out the baffles in the covers so the rear drain back holes are almost completely plugged - let alone what's going to happen when that stuff eventually works its way into the oil pump (motor has less than 100 miles on it since then)
I'm not criticizing anyone - it is buyer beware - but I could never sell, in good conscience, a car to someone knowing what was inside that motor without at least telling them that the engine has "some internal carbon build up". Still think I got a great deal due to the condition of the body/paint, and it doesn't hurt that I own an engine parts company.

costpenn

Short disassembly session (2 hours)
Removed the wiper arms and transmission along with the cowl molding. Was corrosion free under the molding - whew. Also removed the throttle and downshift cables from inside and took some pictures guest starring the antenna mast mounted underneath. There is the usual minor butchering of the dash wiring harness, but nothing that can't be fixed. The original firewall pad is in great condition - I hope I can pull the heater box out without messing it up in changing out the core. Lastly, the seems to be a lit of red oxide looking primer all over tge bottom of the dash. I wonder if this has something to do with being Framingham built - none of the Lansing cars I've done have had anything like this.

costpenn

Forgot to post yesterday's work (2 hours)

Yesterday morning was "under the car day" in preparation for engine removal. I' m working on ways to further cut down the unnecessary, repetitive work in the resto process - it's much more fun bolting shiny new parts back into the car.

So what I did was in this order working from front of car to the back:

1) Remove air deflector shield.
2) Drain engine oil
3) Disconnect back drive linkage
4) Dusconnect Trans shift cable
5) Disconnect speedo cable
6) Remove intermediate parking brake cable
7) Remove Trans X-member to Trans mount bolts
8) Remove LH crossmember to frame nuts leaving bolts in place
9) Drop LH exhaust pipe from manifold
10) Drop starter, remove engine harness and discard positive battery cable
11) Move to RH side and drop exhaust pipe
12) Remove and discard modulator pipe and Trans cooling lines
13) Remove RH crossmember to frame nuts
14) Remove driveshaft

Again, it is amazing how much can be done in two hours with a little planning and experience. Knowing ahead of time what tools you will need for each task allows you to get all that stuff on the floor without having to get up and down a million times. The two hours included bagging all fasteners and tool put away and clean up.

Some other notes

The intermediate cable hook that looks original off the car is considerably shorter in length than the repro piece.

The cable hooks that go to the floor supports are coated in black plastic, as opposed to the Lansing cars I've done with the green coating.

Oil pan has a good sized dent in it. Will replace with the Thornnton repro piece.

There is a lot more factory overspray on the underside of this Framingham car than the Lansing cars I've done.

Driveshaft still has the original joints in it. It's a 2 pc. with the rubber bushing - anyone need one? Will check to see if it has any paint bands on it.

Going to take advantage of The Parts Place Thanksgiving 10% off deal tomorrow and place a big order. All restraint is lost - going all T-3's and converting over to Rallye Pack etc....

costpenn

Miscelaneous Musings (3 hours)

It is better to be lucky than good. Today I went through a bunch of parts I bought in a fire sale of an Olds inventory a guy here in North Texas had. In addition to a bunch of stuff I got for future projects, I got for this car:

Good set of black front wells. Need to be refinished, but all intact, no deep scratches or extra holes, and all j nut piercings intact after removing the nuts.

Nice used SS1 center dap & retainer for spare

Excellent SS1/2 trim rings

Excellent black used dash bezel with ashtray. The "chrome" detailing in the dash is good enough to use as is.

Console lenses

Excellent used M/T neutral safety switch and extension harness.

2 valve cover filter breathers, tubes and rubber elbows

TCS mounting stud

Excellent, like new uncut dash harness.

Very good trunk harness.

Straight '70 glove box door

All of this, the set of '70 mirrors I'm selling and a lot more for only 225.00.

Got all this stuff sorted through and accommodated. Next will be to start on individual part restoration, and pull engine thus weekend.

gransport

Hey what's this ?? Turn my back and you're wire wheeling again .
You forgot to mention you had a new toy .

Jeffs71

Sounds like your off to a great start!
Following your work closely, thanks for the informative photos .

I just bought a 71 supreme vert, found out after purchase it has a burnt valve on number 8 cylinder, and last owner hacked up the qjet badly. Decided to swap out for a ebrock .

costpenn

Jeff, good luck on your project. I wrote a pretty indepth thread on my 70 W30 I did called "Fell Into My Lap Documented 1970 W-30" in the Major Builds And Projects section that has a ton of detail about many parts shared between 70 and 71's.

costpenn

Sorry, but it's just a Supreme - didn't think you'd be interested! Did you get your goodies?

costpenn

No real work in a few days, but the big order from The Parts Place arrived. Shipped all 82 items with no backorders and no damage in transit. Placed the Fusick order today along with a few items I need for the Hurst. Wiped down one of the used fender wells I gave gathered for this project - it might come out OK with just a good cleaning. Engine should finally be coming out thus weekend.

gransport

like I'm doing just a 'lark . Yes Sir thanks. You should have sent me some plating. let me know.

don71

Looking forward to your progress. Its gonna a be a nice one.

costpenn

Dirt Deeds Done Dirt Cheap (4 hours)

First order of biz was pulling the motor/trans. Time from when we started to when engine was on the stand - 45 minutes. Practice does make perfect. I have still not figured out a way to lose the coolant bath when you are hoisting the engine out or spinning it for the first time on the stand. My wife is rubbing off on me because I didn't use to care about washing that stuff down the driveway, but now I try to think of the environment.

Anyway, the motor is a mess with evidence of the nylon timing sprocket coming apart at one time, and tons more of blasting media coating everything - rocker arm bridges were beginning to score etc. All this together with the heavy sludge means this engine would have not lasted more than a couple hundred more miles. I believe the heads had never been off before since it had the OE style steel shim head gaskets and it definitely has the original pistons in it. The biggest disappointment - though not unexpected - is the cylinder heads have the standard head diameter valves in it. I'm going to see if anyone wants to trade these 6 heads for a set of 7's. Last pic of today's set shows another "modification" made to try to get the mismatched pullies and water pump to work - a washer that had been glued onto the pump hub to get the pump pulley to line up with something.

Spent some time scraping the incredibly nasty trans X-member clean of the accumulated oily crud and cleaning, to store for a future project, the really nice crack free plastic converter cover that came off this car.

Cleaned the set of black wells I got for cheap. They are nice, but one a 69, and the other is a 71-72. Will have to see if it will work with some mods.

oldcutlass

Was the pan full of sludge also?

Jeffs71

Wow, looking at the pics of the valley tray and heads..they certainly didn't keep up w proper maintenance. The sludge buildup is frightening.

May I ask a rookie question. What's the big difference between a number 6 head vs 7? I love the info about these cars.

costpenn

Hello Jeff, not a lot of difference in the heads. There is a big number or letter located at the lower LH of the casting that indicates in a general way what application the head was used on. A 6 head is a 1970 350 head, and a 7 is a 1971 model. There are some other differences - for example the 6 casting coukd either have the regular diameter valves, or larger ones if the car was a car equiped with the W-31 performance option.

costpenn

Survey Sunday (1 1/2 hours)

Spent some time more closely reviewing some items pulled off the motor yesterday.

Motor Mounts - The LH one is the OE, and the RH one was replaced a long time ago back when Anchor used to build quality parts. It's a shame I can't reuse the OE one because it is in pretty good shape except for a crack/pulling away of the rubber. Pretty cool seeing how robust these things used to be compared the the Chinesium of today.

Camshaft - It is the OE one which I identified as a 400084 (A body 350 2V and 4V with A/T) Needless to say this will simply not do. Wear patterns on some of the lobes indicate the valve rotators were beginning to fail. I coukd not get almost all the RH lifters out of their bores due to build up on the lifter bodies. For some reason, I did not have this issue on the LH side and the lifters all match in terms of Mfg. and condition.

I pulled the RH wheel well out. It seems in really good shape except for the @#%! pop rivets someone used to attach the splash sheild. I confirmed as others told me in my post that the 68-69 I have is not even close to interchanging, so if it is not cost effective to recondition these it looks like I'll be going repo.

Looks like my plan of leaving the front clip on will be going out the window. Good news is everything is solid and with the exception of the battery tray hold down bolts, coming apart with no bolts breaking.

Lastly, got a great deal on a set of the 71 Supreme metal grilles on eBay. My LH one was slightly bowed and the trims were all jacked up.

costpenn

Here's a few pics. A shame it is all beat up and filthy because the repo 350 pan I bought from TPP does not have the drain plug in the correct place.

costpenn

No updates on actual work being performed, but a lot of prep work and parts gathering going on (2 hours)

Been making runs to people clearing out their parts collections to look for more goodies. Found odds and ends like a nice AC air temp sensor that goes in the air cleaner, set or rear tail lamp guards, specialty wheel hold down nut, etc along with a bunch of other small items that are not reproduced or ridiculously expensive (like the trunk wire harness plugs). Bonus - found 6 cans of the old, correct 7959 Martin Senour Olds blue engine paint - still the most correct engine Blue I have ever seen.

Eureka - Chris Witt (Octania) has found me a 71 intake. Also have locally sourced a really nice 71 350 long block with good oil pan, valve covers and timing cover. Going to rebuild this engine instead of trying to go through the very cruddy 70 model motor that was in the car. Will also have a set of big valves/W-31 springs put in the 6 heads that came off the existing motor and see if I can sell them for beer money.

70Post is doing an amazing job repairing the pop rivet holes in the fender wells that came off the car. The replacement ones I had bought were too "crispy" to use. Conslole conversion to MT also seems to be going well.

Will be pulling the fenders and core support off this weekend. Also will begin sending off things for rebuilding and plating - radiator, booster etc...

Pic shows what came out of one of the lifters in the coffee filter inspection we did at work. That timing gear debris goes everywhere.

costpenn

"Back" at it (2 hours)

Have been out of commission on doing any work due to lower back strain I got - from of all things - lifting the old door off the W-30 I kept in storage. Only saved it because it has the original VIN sticker on it I could not remove.

Today removed the LH wheel well. I had to grind off the top of the bolt heads that held the battery tray down. These have been the only bolts so far that have cased me any trouble during disassembly. There is some rust under the tray on the core support, but nothing that requires any surgery.

Also, never know what you will find in cracks and crevices as you disassemble the car. The original very troublesome bolt that holds the negative battery to the block - the one that is almost impossible to install with the P/S pump installed - was missing and had been replaced by a generic hardware store bolt. When I pulled the wheel well out, the original bolt fell out from somewhere in the core support area. The aftermarket one is a little bit shorter - someone got wise...

The 71 intake hunt goes on - Octania did not have one after all but is still looking. Got my main order in from Rock Auto for items such as shocks, springs, heater core, blower motor, gas tank and sender with new straps, clutch kit, fuel pump, brake hoses, wheel bearings and seals, filters, sway bar link kits and bushings, and much more. Got to send my parts for plating including booster off soon before everyone gets really busy.

bigin1978

I feel you on the back pain. I have a standing RX for muscle relaxer to take as needed!


I had they same issues with my battery tray, no rot in my core support, but the bolt heads for battery tray were "worn" down to big for metric to small for standard socket.


I emailed steve at brake boosters.com. he says turn time is already 4-6 weeks! I have to get mine out this week too!


I hope that you back feels better soon!