ah64pilot

Ok, I decided to document my 1972 Supreme "resto-mod" with the HERO camera that my parents gave me for my birthday. The end result should be a fast slide show presentation that will show it's transformation from complete to torn down back to complete. I will show my family how much work has gone into this car so they know what it takes to do what many laymen take for granted.

For this site, I will post pics every so often but because of the amount of pics taken (1 pic every 60 sec) I will be unable to show the "slideshow" sequence.

These first pics are of the engine I built, specs are as follows:

- Fa Block - bored .060" (468 C.I.), decked .006" (maybe more by previous build, deck height is less than .005), de-burred, oil restrictors in 2,3,4 main journals
- Nodular crank - Shot peened, ARP main studs, Billet steel main cap straps (2,3,4 mains)
- Stock rods - Shot peened, ARP rod bolts
- Keith Black IC886 Flat top pistons .060" oversize (CR 10.63 w/ .040" gasket)
- High pressure / High volume oil pump, chromeoly hardened drive shaft, 8 quart pan, full length windage tray
- Engle cam - (Mondello MPV 1-2) Solid flat tappet 557/574 lift, 244/252 Duration @ .050", 110 lobe separation
- Timing chain - Cloyes true roller (double) w/ cam spacer and bushing
- Push rods - 3/8" oversize, hardened, oil restricting
- Rocker arms - 1:6 ratio aluminum roller
- Edelbrock heads - CNC ported, ARP 7/16" head studs
- Edelbrock Torker intake - Ported, port matched to heads, plenum cone
- Holly 4150 HP 950 - Built specifically for this engine by DAVINCI PERFORMANCE CARBURETORS
- MSD Pro Billet Distributor 8566
- MSD 6AL Ignition Control Box
- NGK Spark plugs R5671A-7
- Fabricated accessory brackets (Alternator, PS pump, Sanden Compressor)
- Polished accessories (Alternator, PS pump, Sanden Compressor) and pulleys

67Olds442X2

Nice looking engine Steve. I need to get a set of Edelbrock heads sometime.

ah64pilot

Thanks, I just hope it performs as well as it looks.

ah64pilot

So here is a pic I took last week when I started the front end repair. I had an extra set of control arms that I had boiled to clean up and new polyurethane bushings pressed in. This is what the car looked like at the start of all of this.



And this is what the front end looks like after pressure washing the frame, replacing upper and lower control arms, and painting...



And this is what it looks like in its current state...

scubastever

that fish eye lens is hilarious

keep up the great work man !

trackz man

Great looking man-cave-especially with the type of lens you are using- Love seeing pics--

ah64pilot

LOL! Thanks! I'm using a HERO camera that's made to mount on a helmet or something because it takes a pic every 60 seconds and I'd like to make a fast slide show to present to my father so he can see the transformation. It's not as noticeable when it's mounted up high in the corner but I was lazy and used it to take pics from the ground and the "fish eye" effect is really bad that way. I haven't figured out how to get rid of it.

Car Update: The car goes off to paint and body on Wednesday (20 April). While it is there I'll be cleaning the old 455 and prepping it for install into my sister's '72 convertible. I've also got some polished brackets and accessories to install on the new 455 (Sanden Compressor, Alternator, Pwr Steering pump), I'll post pics as the work is completed.

ah64pilot

Ok fellas, here is the latest...

The car looked like this on Friday April 22, 2011



And ended up looking like this by Sunday April 24, 2011



And then it was picked up and went to paint on Monday April 25, 2011

4424me

looking forward to the post paint pics!

ah64pilot

You and I both buddy! It's killing me that the car isn't here...at least it's close, only about 10 min. away.

Oldsguy

Very nice thread and looking forward to more posts.

archeryshooter

looking badass

JamesPDX

You have a nice looking engine and bedroom garage ah64pilot. Who did the machine work? Did you do all the bolt-on assembly? Just kidding! I know what it takes to formulate project specifications out of gathered requirements based upon a desired and realistic purpose, and then perform the work.

Are you planning to race and/or show this fine work?
I look forward to seeing the outcome.


Best Regards to You,
JamesPDX
USN Diver, H. Discharge

ah64pilot

Body shop estimate is done...will follow with details after I go see what the damage is going to be. Stand by, happens at 1:00pm today.

Okay. I've tried to stop the bleeding but it doesn't seem to make a difference...lol!

Estimate 1: Media Blast, Full body work / rust repair, SHOW CAR finish paint (2 color, 3 clear, full wet sand), Lifetime Warranty = $14,069.07

Estimate 2: Full body work / rust repair, FACTORY finish paint (2 color, 2 clear, moderate wet sand), Limited Warranty = $9, 275.32

Since my projected budget was $5,000 I will be going with "Estimate 3" which will be completed by tomorrow, 11 May 2011.

Estimate 3: Full body work / rust repair, Single stage paint (top & clear combined*, minor wet sand), Bodywork only Warranty = ?????
* Paint used will be Dupont Chromabase 44490 / 44435 - Quality paint, money saved will be in the application method.

**My reasoning is that if the paint goes bad in 5 years I can re-do it. If the BODYWORK goes bad I'll be starting all over. I'd rather put my money in the bodywork and skimp on the paint**

GAOldsman

Nice car and great build. Love the pics. This paint and body guy must have plenty of work up there or are there 3 estimates from 3 different shops? OMG there are guys that would do the 3rd estimate around here for less than $2,000.00 going by what I saw in the pics. There didn't seem to be any major damage or dings. I guess it was the first estimate that made my jaw drop. Just sayin' but still none the less it is going to be one sweet ride when it's said and done.
Scot

ah64pilot

Here are some pics of the major rust areas...the rest of the body is solid.

Front windshield from Passenger side to Drivers side has spotted rust-through areas:









The front fenders, under chrome rocker panel...rusted through. Needs patch:





And the back window has rust-through spots as well:





In all, the car is in great shape...I believe these few spots of rust and my inability to have the work done half assed is why the price of body work is so high. They are going to replace the metal where it is rusted and then take the body down to factory paint/primer. Then they'll start from there, blocking, priming, and painting the entire car.

GAOldsman

Yeah that's a little more "cancer" than I saw before. Definitely going to be one heck of a ride when you get her done! Can't wait to see the "rest of the story"

greenslade

Nice. Is the body shop going to remove body from frame,and blast and coat the under side of body and frame.what colour are you going with.

ah64pilot

No, they aren't taking the body off. What's odd is the rust you see is from the 1 year in this car's life that it sat under a tarp outside. The rest of the body / frame is impeccable. They are going to replace all of the rust with new metal and then take the rest of the car down to factory paint / primer and then repaint. I didn't want to take the $9,000 option of having them media blast it down to metal and then start there. That's just way too high for me

Besides, my next post will show you where I like to spend my money

ah64pilot

So I received my brackets and accessories today...mocked them up to take a pic. This thing looks sick!

RobbMC Water Neck



New Alternator, Power Steering Pump, and Sanden Compressor. Fabricated brackets and Aluminum underdrive pulleys

Jaybird

ah64pilot: Your engine looks very sweet!

I bet that thing would fit under the hood of my '67 Delta 88!

Keep the pictures coming!

Thanks,

Jaybird

slowdime

dont forget to stop by the body shop while they are redoing your car

it motivates them to finish it and you can see how they fix everything

JamesPDX

A few spots?!? That ugly duck poop is cancer. No wonder the cost is so high for the body work. I’ve worked on non-cancerous metal in my shop (years ago) and the work is not simple or easy. It just takes mucho time to do it right by hand.

I see that you decided to retain the belt drives rather than go the serpentine route. I picked up a similar 3-belt main drive, but had to machine it to accept a 4th smaller pulley to drive my AIR pump. The 4th pulley I machined off of a 2-blt drive with the smaller AIR pump drive sticking out in front (an OEM bracket issue). You really do have a very nice looking engine.

Slowdime is right. You need to keep tabs on the workmanship for quality issues. Some individuals like to take shortcuts or skimp on or go with a lesser product.

What thermostat did you install (assuming that the spout is torqued already)? I’m using a Robertshaw high flow performance FlowKooler 160F thermostat and my water temp is consistently between 160°-170°F and my synthetic oil (great stuff) temp is consistently between 170°-180°F around town. If anyone is running under a computerized fan system, then they need to use the 180°F unit. Any engine performs better in the 160°-170°F range. A cooler running engine also requires less octane (10°-15°=1 octane) which is especially beneficial to a supercharged or turbocharged engine (-20° engine coolant = 1 psi boost). The OEM thermostats are typically 195°F.

JamesPDX

ah64pilot - I hope you don't mind. I'm sending some folks who have done some really good work Olds your way to view the great things that you have done.

One of them is Aceshigh.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums.../aceshigh.html

GAOldsman

Looking great, keep those pics coming.

Aceshigh

Holy crap!!!! That's a bit steep.

If your budget is $5K call MAACO....I'm not kidding.
They've done some good paint jobs IMO for under $5K.

BTW , that engine is VERY nice looking. Good work.

JamesPDX

AcesHigh –
Those were close to my thoughts on the quote that were given to the Chief. In the past, when I needed paint I would do all of the prep (mucho work) and contract a paint shot to shoot the final paint to my specs, and the price was quite reasonable. Of course I never had such an extreme case of pigeon poop on the deck to deal with. In his case, I would defer to the body shop and maybe multiple shops for the various phases of work. The latter tends to bring the cost down while boosting the quality.

Still the Chief has a very nice ride setup with a clean strong engine.

Nice work Chief.

ah64pilot

Thanks fellas, just got back from a camping trip in the Buffalo National River in Arkansas...now it's time to cruise on over to the body shop and look at the progress.

JamesPDX

I paid a visit to one of our local body/paint shops today. They told me that they will prep and paint a car that comes into their shop in clean condition (no body work) for $7000... Man the prices have gone up. I prefer to do the prep to mint condition standards and have a shop shoot the paint that I specify, but that estimate is way high (in my opinion).

442_Mustang

A big reason paint and body work is so pricey is the fact the cost of paint and materials have gone sky high. and now with the japan situation, I've heard that some color toners will be difficult to obtain.

ah64pilot

If I knew how or had the artistic touch to do it myself I would. As you can see, I'm not afraid of doing the work...as long as I know how to do it. Body work? Paint? Nah, not for me. I'm a gearhead. I'll let the bodyman do his job.

GAOldsman

ah64pilot, Is the intake plenum cone built into the intake or is it an add on to any intake? That looks like it might add a few ponys while keeping the mixture swirling/flowing into the ports.

JamesPDX

It is most frustrating for me when trying to do something new that I do not have enough knowledge about or enough experience with. All of us have learned things from the ground floor (so to say), and while we may get some training, it is not until we get the practical experience that we understand how to proceed and move on to the next level. Even the astronauts, firefighters, and military leaders get plenty of training, it is not until they actually get the experience that they fully understand what it takes. As with most anything, once you have learned a new card game or new language, the next one is always easier.

I recently took on the building an Olds engine and TH200-4R transmission without specific training or experience. While those projects turned out very well and within the specified requirements that I set, it took far more time (and less money) than if I had hired a shop or individual to do the work for me. What a learning experience it was! I spent a lot of time reading Internet blogs, technical manuals, magazine articles, and searched endlessly for answers to my questions. I spent additional time talking to shop machinists and technicians for their recommendations. I was constantly taking heat from my wife, who kept asking me when the car would be finished.

There seems to always be something that needs to done. The biggest thing that I have learned was to have clear objectives and to try following a set of quality assurance (QA) rules for insuring a good product when completed. Every time that I allowed for short cuts, quick fixes, and rushed through something, I would invariably miss something critical that bit me later. That goes for having the work done by unknown shops.

My next project is to complete the re-work on the rear end. Last summer, my drive line was causing a vibration at 50-60 MPR. I changed and adjusted nearly everything that might be cause this. It was finally determined that the drive shaft was out of balance (you could see the wobble during a dry-run). The cost to balance drive line alone was quoted at $250 by a professional shop that specializes in all types of propeller shafts and drive lines.

So, in a cost saving move, I changed the OEM rear end (7.5” ring/pinion with 2.73:1 gears) to a stronger unit (8.5” with 3.08:1 gears) with only a little performance improvement. This required me to ride a bus, a light rail, and walked half a mile to and from the same shop to have the shaft shortened by 1.25” and balancing. I also needed to replace one bent axle. The final cost of replacing the rear end was the same for just having the shaft balanced (go figure!?!). Maybe the quote was for a general HD commercial unit.

I next plan to install a 3.42:1 ratio gear set with a limited slip or locker unit. I have read opinions on various units, but have not decided. The initial cost of nearly all units is easily comparable within $110 ($420-$530). Again, it comes down to the purpose of the vehicle. I want a unit that will be all weather reliable for many miles, rider friendly for street use, and easily re-paired if needed. The limited slip pre-loaded clutch system seems to fit the billet. I’m in the process of determining the quality and reparability of the Auburn and Eaton units (LSD) and leaning towards either LSD clutch plate type or possibly the Eaton TruTrac helical gear LSD. Each has a set of specified advantages. What are the disadvantages?

442much

My paint job was just under $10,000. They removed everything, did the prep, 2 colours, 4 coats of clear stripe work on the hood and body and a life time warranty. There was a bubble on the lower drivers side quarter panel but that was it. Also got them to paint my stock hood at the same time.

ah64pilot - you engine looks sweet. Just installed mine on the weekend, now to hook it up.

JamesPDX

It seems that the cost of paint and body work has gone up. Thanks.

I went with the GM 8.5 10-bolt 3.42 rear gears from Yukon.

After much reading, it seems that there are essentially five variations or categories of rear wheel differential devices available. From left to right they appear to be

• open or conventional (the wheel with the least resistance spins)
• clutch (cone and disk slipping resistance that generates heat and wear, clutch parts are replaceable)
• TrueTrak (a helical gear setup that transfers torque to the axle with the greatest resistance, parts do not ware easily and can take much torque)
• lockers (manual, air, automatic, good for off-road use, but edges ware and units need to be replaced)
• Spools (solid connection between axles used for drag racing, axles tend to break)

After discussing the advantages and disadvantages with a few professionals who work on all sorts of rear ends for commercial, racing, and consumer use, I decided that the Eaton Detroit TrueTrak as the best way (for me). I soak the internal components in a rich bath of 75/90 Royal Purple synthetic gear lube.

I like the results.


I have one issue that I hope someone might be able to help with. The Throttle Variable cable hosing is attached to the TH200-4R with a retainer bolt. I have been unable to find the correct bolt size for this. The dealer said that from 1980 all fittings were metric. This bolt may be a 6.0mm x .80 thread pitch or it may be a 6.3mm x .80 thread pitch. I'm not sure of the length. There are 2 type of acceptable cable for this purpose (the push-button with o-ring seal and the screw types plastic insert seal). I have both. Can anyone help?

JamesPDX

It was late and I was tire. The TV cable is a Throttle Valve cable (oops). The descriptions were a little cryptic too, but you can read between the lines (sorry). The bolt that I found may not be correct (it does not fit correctly). I need the correct bolt size, as I do not want to strip the case. In order to re-tap it, I will need to remove the transmission or punch an access hole in the floor panel. Neither is desirable as you might imagine. Thanks,

JamesPDX

I'm really disappointed in the BAD engineering design (upper management decisions) of nearly all vehicles out there today. Engineering has been progressively pushed to design for the quick build, get it out the door, make the money, and to heck with the maintenance needs down the road. We have all seen this with any number of vehicles that we might have worked on. I have worked direct and contract in the engineering and quality assurance departments for BMW, Freightliner, Audi, American La France, Western Star, Porsche, and Volkswagen over the years and witnessed their objective first hand. The early vehicles were not bad at all, but as things became more competitive, that changed. My favorite vehicles to work on (professionally and at home) were most any air cooled Porsche, the pre-1968 VW, the Ford flat head, and the V8 Olds and Chevy engines.

ah64pilot

Sorry to leave you hanging...I haven't been able to get on for a while. The plenum cone is bolted to the center of the intake plenum floor. It is sealed with high temp fuel resistant rtv sealer to the floor. You can get them at Mondello's. I had mine installed at the same time the intake was ported at Nickens Brothers Racing Engines here in Houston.

ah64pilot

Ok fellas, here is the latest: Body work is 90% complete and should be finished this week.



The windshield rust repair:





Rear window rust repair:



W-25 Hood mocked up:



If you are considering an aftermarket hood, I will say without a doubt VFN is the way to go. This hood was mocked up right out of the box and only needs MINOR adjustment to make it a PERFECT fit.

67Olds442X2

Looking good Steve, coming along nicely. Progress is good, I haven't touched my car since the beginning of June after taking the engine apart.