New Engine, New Paint, New Interior...HERO camera Documented
#1
New Engine, New Paint, New Interior...HERO camera Documented
Ok, I decided to document my 1972 Supreme "resto-mod" with the HERO camera that my parents gave me for my birthday. The end result should be a fast slide show presentation that will show it's transformation from complete to torn down back to complete. I will show my family how much work has gone into this car so they know what it takes to do what many laymen take for granted.
For this site, I will post pics every so often but because of the amount of pics taken (1 pic every 60 sec) I will be unable to show the "slideshow" sequence.
These first pics are of the engine I built, specs are as follows:
- Fa Block - bored .060" (468 C.I.), decked .006" (maybe more by previous build, deck height is less than .005), de-burred, oil restrictors in 2,3,4 main journals
- Nodular crank - Shot peened, ARP main studs, Billet steel main cap straps (2,3,4 mains)
- Stock rods - Shot peened, ARP rod bolts
- Keith Black IC886 Flat top pistons .060" oversize (CR 10.63 w/ .040" gasket)
- High pressure / High volume oil pump, chromeoly hardened drive shaft, 8 quart pan, full length windage tray
- Engle cam - (Mondello MPV 1-2) Solid flat tappet 557/574 lift, 244/252 Duration @ .050", 110 lobe separation
- Timing chain - Cloyes true roller (double) w/ cam spacer and bushing
- Push rods - 3/8" oversize, hardened, oil restricting
- Rocker arms - 1:6 ratio aluminum roller
- Edelbrock heads - CNC ported, ARP 7/16" head studs
- Edelbrock Torker intake - Ported, port matched to heads, plenum cone
- Holly 4150 HP 950 - Built specifically for this engine by DAVINCI PERFORMANCE CARBURETORS
- MSD Pro Billet Distributor 8566
- MSD 6AL Ignition Control Box
- NGK Spark plugs R5671A-7
- Fabricated accessory brackets (Alternator, PS pump, Sanden Compressor)
- Polished accessories (Alternator, PS pump, Sanden Compressor) and pulleys
For this site, I will post pics every so often but because of the amount of pics taken (1 pic every 60 sec) I will be unable to show the "slideshow" sequence.
These first pics are of the engine I built, specs are as follows:
- Fa Block - bored .060" (468 C.I.), decked .006" (maybe more by previous build, deck height is less than .005), de-burred, oil restrictors in 2,3,4 main journals
- Nodular crank - Shot peened, ARP main studs, Billet steel main cap straps (2,3,4 mains)
- Stock rods - Shot peened, ARP rod bolts
- Keith Black IC886 Flat top pistons .060" oversize (CR 10.63 w/ .040" gasket)
- High pressure / High volume oil pump, chromeoly hardened drive shaft, 8 quart pan, full length windage tray
- Engle cam - (Mondello MPV 1-2) Solid flat tappet 557/574 lift, 244/252 Duration @ .050", 110 lobe separation
- Timing chain - Cloyes true roller (double) w/ cam spacer and bushing
- Push rods - 3/8" oversize, hardened, oil restricting
- Rocker arms - 1:6 ratio aluminum roller
- Edelbrock heads - CNC ported, ARP 7/16" head studs
- Edelbrock Torker intake - Ported, port matched to heads, plenum cone
- Holly 4150 HP 950 - Built specifically for this engine by DAVINCI PERFORMANCE CARBURETORS
- MSD Pro Billet Distributor 8566
- MSD 6AL Ignition Control Box
- NGK Spark plugs R5671A-7
- Fabricated accessory brackets (Alternator, PS pump, Sanden Compressor)
- Polished accessories (Alternator, PS pump, Sanden Compressor) and pulleys
Last edited by ah64pilot; October 6th, 2011 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Add pictures
#4
So here is a pic I took last week when I started the front end repair. I had an extra set of control arms that I had boiled to clean up and new polyurethane bushings pressed in. This is what the car looked like at the start of all of this.
And this is what the front end looks like after pressure washing the frame, replacing upper and lower control arms, and painting...
And this is what it looks like in its current state...
And this is what the front end looks like after pressure washing the frame, replacing upper and lower control arms, and painting...
And this is what it looks like in its current state...
Last edited by ah64pilot; April 27th, 2011 at 11:03 PM. Reason: Add pics
#7
LOL! Thanks! I'm using a HERO camera that's made to mount on a helmet or something because it takes a pic every 60 seconds and I'd like to make a fast slide show to present to my father so he can see the transformation. It's not as noticeable when it's mounted up high in the corner but I was lazy and used it to take pics from the ground and the "fish eye" effect is really bad that way. I haven't figured out how to get rid of it.
Car Update: The car goes off to paint and body on Wednesday (20 April). While it is there I'll be cleaning the old 455 and prepping it for install into my sister's '72 convertible. I've also got some polished brackets and accessories to install on the new 455 (Sanden Compressor, Alternator, Pwr Steering pump), I'll post pics as the work is completed.
Car Update: The car goes off to paint and body on Wednesday (20 April). While it is there I'll be cleaning the old 455 and prepping it for install into my sister's '72 convertible. I've also got some polished brackets and accessories to install on the new 455 (Sanden Compressor, Alternator, Pwr Steering pump), I'll post pics as the work is completed.
#8
Ok fellas, here is the latest...
The car looked like this on Friday April 22, 2011
And ended up looking like this by Sunday April 24, 2011
And then it was picked up and went to paint on Monday April 25, 2011
The car looked like this on Friday April 22, 2011
And ended up looking like this by Sunday April 24, 2011
And then it was picked up and went to paint on Monday April 25, 2011
#13
I fully appreciate quality workmanship and product
You have a nice looking engine and bedroom garage ah64pilot. Who did the machine work? Did you do all the bolt-on assembly? Just kidding! I know what it takes to formulate project specifications out of gathered requirements based upon a desired and realistic purpose, and then perform the work.
Are you planning to race and/or show this fine work?
I look forward to seeing the outcome.
Best Regards to You,
JamesPDX
USN Diver, H. Discharge
Are you planning to race and/or show this fine work?
I look forward to seeing the outcome.
Best Regards to You,
JamesPDX
USN Diver, H. Discharge
#14
Body shop estimate is done...will follow with details after I go see what the damage is going to be. Stand by, happens at 1:00pm today.
Okay. I've tried to stop the bleeding but it doesn't seem to make a difference...lol!
Estimate 1: Media Blast, Full body work / rust repair, SHOW CAR finish paint (2 color, 3 clear, full wet sand), Lifetime Warranty = $14,069.07
Estimate 2: Full body work / rust repair, FACTORY finish paint (2 color, 2 clear, moderate wet sand), Limited Warranty = $9, 275.32
Since my projected budget was $5,000 I will be going with "Estimate 3" which will be completed by tomorrow, 11 May 2011.
Estimate 3: Full body work / rust repair, Single stage paint (top & clear combined*, minor wet sand), Bodywork only Warranty = ?????
* Paint used will be Dupont Chromabase 44490 / 44435 - Quality paint, money saved will be in the application method.
**My reasoning is that if the paint goes bad in 5 years I can re-do it. If the BODYWORK goes bad I'll be starting all over. I'd rather put my money in the bodywork and skimp on the paint**
Okay. I've tried to stop the bleeding but it doesn't seem to make a difference...lol!
Estimate 1: Media Blast, Full body work / rust repair, SHOW CAR finish paint (2 color, 3 clear, full wet sand), Lifetime Warranty = $14,069.07
Estimate 2: Full body work / rust repair, FACTORY finish paint (2 color, 2 clear, moderate wet sand), Limited Warranty = $9, 275.32
Since my projected budget was $5,000 I will be going with "Estimate 3" which will be completed by tomorrow, 11 May 2011.
Estimate 3: Full body work / rust repair, Single stage paint (top & clear combined*, minor wet sand), Bodywork only Warranty = ?????
* Paint used will be Dupont Chromabase 44490 / 44435 - Quality paint, money saved will be in the application method.
**My reasoning is that if the paint goes bad in 5 years I can re-do it. If the BODYWORK goes bad I'll be starting all over. I'd rather put my money in the bodywork and skimp on the paint**
Last edited by ah64pilot; May 10th, 2011 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Added estimate information
#15
Nice car and great build. Love the pics. This paint and body guy must have plenty of work up there or are there 3 estimates from 3 different shops? OMG there are guys that would do the 3rd estimate around here for less than $2,000.00 going by what I saw in the pics. There didn't seem to be any major damage or dings. I guess it was the first estimate that made my jaw drop. Just sayin' but still none the less it is going to be one sweet ride when it's said and done.
Scot
Scot
#16
Here are some pics of the major rust areas...the rest of the body is solid.
Front windshield from Passenger side to Drivers side has spotted rust-through areas:
The front fenders, under chrome rocker panel...rusted through. Needs patch:
And the back window has rust-through spots as well:
In all, the car is in great shape...I believe these few spots of rust and my inability to have the work done half assed is why the price of body work is so high. They are going to replace the metal where it is rusted and then take the body down to factory paint/primer. Then they'll start from there, blocking, priming, and painting the entire car.
Front windshield from Passenger side to Drivers side has spotted rust-through areas:
The front fenders, under chrome rocker panel...rusted through. Needs patch:
And the back window has rust-through spots as well:
In all, the car is in great shape...I believe these few spots of rust and my inability to have the work done half assed is why the price of body work is so high. They are going to replace the metal where it is rusted and then take the body down to factory paint/primer. Then they'll start from there, blocking, priming, and painting the entire car.
#19
Besides, my next post will show you where I like to spend my money
#20
So I received my brackets and accessories today...mocked them up to take a pic. This thing looks sick!
RobbMC Water Neck
New Alternator, Power Steering Pump, and Sanden Compressor. Fabricated brackets and Aluminum underdrive pulleys
RobbMC Water Neck
New Alternator, Power Steering Pump, and Sanden Compressor. Fabricated brackets and Aluminum underdrive pulleys
#21
ah64pilot: Your engine looks very sweet!
I bet that thing would fit under the hood of my '67 Delta 88!
Keep the pictures coming!
Thanks,
Jaybird
I bet that thing would fit under the hood of my '67 Delta 88!
Keep the pictures coming!
Thanks,
Jaybird
Last edited by Jaybird; May 14th, 2011 at 03:22 PM.
#23
A few spots?!? That ugly duck poop is cancer. No wonder the cost is so high for the body work. I’ve worked on non-cancerous metal in my shop (years ago) and the work is not simple or easy. It just takes mucho time to do it right by hand.
I see that you decided to retain the belt drives rather than go the serpentine route. I picked up a similar 3-belt main drive, but had to machine it to accept a 4th smaller pulley to drive my AIR pump. The 4th pulley I machined off of a 2-blt drive with the smaller AIR pump drive sticking out in front (an OEM bracket issue). You really do have a very nice looking engine.
Slowdime is right. You need to keep tabs on the workmanship for quality issues. Some individuals like to take shortcuts or skimp on or go with a lesser product.
What thermostat did you install (assuming that the spout is torqued already)? I’m using a Robertshaw high flow performance FlowKooler 160F thermostat and my water temp is consistently between 160°-170°F and my synthetic oil (great stuff) temp is consistently between 170°-180°F around town. If anyone is running under a computerized fan system, then they need to use the 180°F unit. Any engine performs better in the 160°-170°F range. A cooler running engine also requires less octane (10°-15°=1 octane) which is especially beneficial to a supercharged or turbocharged engine (-20° engine coolant = 1 psi boost). The OEM thermostats are typically 195°F.
I see that you decided to retain the belt drives rather than go the serpentine route. I picked up a similar 3-belt main drive, but had to machine it to accept a 4th smaller pulley to drive my AIR pump. The 4th pulley I machined off of a 2-blt drive with the smaller AIR pump drive sticking out in front (an OEM bracket issue). You really do have a very nice looking engine.
Slowdime is right. You need to keep tabs on the workmanship for quality issues. Some individuals like to take shortcuts or skimp on or go with a lesser product.
What thermostat did you install (assuming that the spout is torqued already)? I’m using a Robertshaw high flow performance FlowKooler 160F thermostat and my water temp is consistently between 160°-170°F and my synthetic oil (great stuff) temp is consistently between 170°-180°F around town. If anyone is running under a computerized fan system, then they need to use the 180°F unit. Any engine performs better in the 160°-170°F range. A cooler running engine also requires less octane (10°-15°=1 octane) which is especially beneficial to a supercharged or turbocharged engine (-20° engine coolant = 1 psi boost). The OEM thermostats are typically 195°F.
Last edited by JamesPDX; May 18th, 2011 at 07:15 PM.
#24
ah64pilot - I hope you don't mind. I'm sending some folks who have done some really good work Olds your way to view the great things that you have done.
One of them is Aceshigh.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums.../aceshigh.html
One of them is Aceshigh.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums.../aceshigh.html
Last edited by JamesPDX; May 25th, 2011 at 11:20 AM.
#26
If your budget is $5K call MAACO....I'm not kidding.
They've done some good paint jobs IMO for under $5K.
BTW , that engine is VERY nice looking. Good work.
#27
AcesHigh –
Those were close to my thoughts on the quote that were given to the Chief. In the past, when I needed paint I would do all of the prep (mucho work) and contract a paint shot to shoot the final paint to my specs, and the price was quite reasonable. Of course I never had such an extreme case of pigeon poop on the deck to deal with. In his case, I would defer to the body shop and maybe multiple shops for the various phases of work. The latter tends to bring the cost down while boosting the quality.
Still the Chief has a very nice ride setup with a clean strong engine.
Nice work Chief.
Those were close to my thoughts on the quote that were given to the Chief. In the past, when I needed paint I would do all of the prep (mucho work) and contract a paint shot to shoot the final paint to my specs, and the price was quite reasonable. Of course I never had such an extreme case of pigeon poop on the deck to deal with. In his case, I would defer to the body shop and maybe multiple shops for the various phases of work. The latter tends to bring the cost down while boosting the quality.
Still the Chief has a very nice ride setup with a clean strong engine.
Nice work Chief.
#29
I paid a visit to one of our local body/paint shops today. They told me that they will prep and paint a car that comes into their shop in clean condition (no body work) for $7000... Man the prices have gone up. I prefer to do the prep to mint condition standards and have a shop shoot the paint that I specify, but that estimate is way high (in my opinion).
#30
A big reason paint and body work is so pricey is the fact the cost of paint and materials have gone sky high. and now with the japan situation, I've heard that some color toners will be difficult to obtain.
#31
If I knew how or had the artistic touch to do it myself I would. As you can see, I'm not afraid of doing the work...as long as I know how to do it. Body work? Paint? Nah, not for me. I'm a gearhead. I'll let the bodyman do his job.
#33
Doing the Work Yourself
It is most frustrating for me when trying to do something new that I do not have enough knowledge about or enough experience with. All of us have learned things from the ground floor (so to say), and while we may get some training, it is not until we get the practical experience that we understand how to proceed and move on to the next level. Even the astronauts, firefighters, and military leaders get plenty of training, it is not until they actually get the experience that they fully understand what it takes. As with most anything, once you have learned a new card game or new language, the next one is always easier.
I recently took on the building an Olds engine and TH200-4R transmission without specific training or experience. While those projects turned out very well and within the specified requirements that I set, it took far more time (and less money) than if I had hired a shop or individual to do the work for me. What a learning experience it was! I spent a lot of time reading Internet blogs, technical manuals, magazine articles, and searched endlessly for answers to my questions. I spent additional time talking to shop machinists and technicians for their recommendations. I was constantly taking heat from my wife, who kept asking me when the car would be finished.
There seems to always be something that needs to done. The biggest thing that I have learned was to have clear objectives and to try following a set of quality assurance (QA) rules for insuring a good product when completed. Every time that I allowed for short cuts, quick fixes, and rushed through something, I would invariably miss something critical that bit me later. That goes for having the work done by unknown shops.
My next project is to complete the re-work on the rear end. Last summer, my drive line was causing a vibration at 50-60 MPR. I changed and adjusted nearly everything that might be cause this. It was finally determined that the drive shaft was out of balance (you could see the wobble during a dry-run). The cost to balance drive line alone was quoted at $250 by a professional shop that specializes in all types of propeller shafts and drive lines.
So, in a cost saving move, I changed the OEM rear end (7.5” ring/pinion with 2.73:1 gears) to a stronger unit (8.5” with 3.08:1 gears) with only a little performance improvement. This required me to ride a bus, a light rail, and walked half a mile to and from the same shop to have the shaft shortened by 1.25” and balancing. I also needed to replace one bent axle. The final cost of replacing the rear end was the same for just having the shaft balanced (go figure!?!). Maybe the quote was for a general HD commercial unit.
I next plan to install a 3.42:1 ratio gear set with a limited slip or locker unit. I have read opinions on various units, but have not decided. The initial cost of nearly all units is easily comparable within $110 ($420-$530). Again, it comes down to the purpose of the vehicle. I want a unit that will be all weather reliable for many miles, rider friendly for street use, and easily re-paired if needed. The limited slip pre-loaded clutch system seems to fit the billet. I’m in the process of determining the quality and reparability of the Auburn and Eaton units (LSD) and leaning towards either LSD clutch plate type or possibly the Eaton TruTrac helical gear LSD. Each has a set of specified advantages. What are the disadvantages?
I recently took on the building an Olds engine and TH200-4R transmission without specific training or experience. While those projects turned out very well and within the specified requirements that I set, it took far more time (and less money) than if I had hired a shop or individual to do the work for me. What a learning experience it was! I spent a lot of time reading Internet blogs, technical manuals, magazine articles, and searched endlessly for answers to my questions. I spent additional time talking to shop machinists and technicians for their recommendations. I was constantly taking heat from my wife, who kept asking me when the car would be finished.
There seems to always be something that needs to done. The biggest thing that I have learned was to have clear objectives and to try following a set of quality assurance (QA) rules for insuring a good product when completed. Every time that I allowed for short cuts, quick fixes, and rushed through something, I would invariably miss something critical that bit me later. That goes for having the work done by unknown shops.
My next project is to complete the re-work on the rear end. Last summer, my drive line was causing a vibration at 50-60 MPR. I changed and adjusted nearly everything that might be cause this. It was finally determined that the drive shaft was out of balance (you could see the wobble during a dry-run). The cost to balance drive line alone was quoted at $250 by a professional shop that specializes in all types of propeller shafts and drive lines.
So, in a cost saving move, I changed the OEM rear end (7.5” ring/pinion with 2.73:1 gears) to a stronger unit (8.5” with 3.08:1 gears) with only a little performance improvement. This required me to ride a bus, a light rail, and walked half a mile to and from the same shop to have the shaft shortened by 1.25” and balancing. I also needed to replace one bent axle. The final cost of replacing the rear end was the same for just having the shaft balanced (go figure!?!). Maybe the quote was for a general HD commercial unit.
I next plan to install a 3.42:1 ratio gear set with a limited slip or locker unit. I have read opinions on various units, but have not decided. The initial cost of nearly all units is easily comparable within $110 ($420-$530). Again, it comes down to the purpose of the vehicle. I want a unit that will be all weather reliable for many miles, rider friendly for street use, and easily re-paired if needed. The limited slip pre-loaded clutch system seems to fit the billet. I’m in the process of determining the quality and reparability of the Auburn and Eaton units (LSD) and leaning towards either LSD clutch plate type or possibly the Eaton TruTrac helical gear LSD. Each has a set of specified advantages. What are the disadvantages?
Last edited by JamesPDX; June 15th, 2011 at 11:10 AM.
#34
I paid a visit to one of our local body/paint shops today. They told me that they will prep and paint a car that comes into their shop in clean condition (no body work) for $7000... Man the prices have gone up. I prefer to do the prep to mint condition standards and have a shop shoot the paint that I specify, but that estimate is way high (in my opinion).
ah64pilot - you engine looks sweet. Just installed mine on the weekend, now to hook it up.
#35
It seems that the cost of paint and body work has gone up. Thanks.
I went with the GM 8.5 10-bolt 3.42 rear gears from Yukon.
After much reading, it seems that there are essentially five variations or categories of rear wheel differential devices available. From left to right they appear to be
I like the results.
I have one issue that I hope someone might be able to help with. The Throttle Variable cable hosing is attached to the TH200-4R with a retainer bolt. I have been unable to find the correct bolt size for this. The dealer said that from 1980 all fittings were metric. This bolt may be a 6.0mm x .80 thread pitch or it may be a 6.3mm x .80 thread pitch. I'm not sure of the length. There are 2 type of acceptable cable for this purpose (the push-button with o-ring seal and the screw types plastic insert seal). I have both. Can anyone help?
I went with the GM 8.5 10-bolt 3.42 rear gears from Yukon.
After much reading, it seems that there are essentially five variations or categories of rear wheel differential devices available. From left to right they appear to be
- open or conventional (the wheel with the least resistance spins)
- clutch (cone and disk slipping resistance that generates heat and wear, clutch parts are replaceable)
- TrueTrak (a helical gear setup that transfers torque to the axle with the greatest resistance, parts do not ware easily and can take much torque)
- lockers (manual, air, automatic, good for off-road use, but edges ware and units need to be replaced)
- Spools (solid connection between axles used for drag racing, axles tend to break)
I like the results.
I have one issue that I hope someone might be able to help with. The Throttle Variable cable hosing is attached to the TH200-4R with a retainer bolt. I have been unable to find the correct bolt size for this. The dealer said that from 1980 all fittings were metric. This bolt may be a 6.0mm x .80 thread pitch or it may be a 6.3mm x .80 thread pitch. I'm not sure of the length. There are 2 type of acceptable cable for this purpose (the push-button with o-ring seal and the screw types plastic insert seal). I have both. Can anyone help?
#36
It was late and I was tire. The TV cable is a Throttle Valve cable (oops). The descriptions were a little cryptic too, but you can read between the lines (sorry). The bolt that I found may not be correct (it does not fit correctly). I need the correct bolt size, as I do not want to strip the case. In order to re-tap it, I will need to remove the transmission or punch an access hole in the floor panel. Neither is desirable as you might imagine. Thanks,
Last edited by JamesPDX; June 28th, 2011 at 08:21 AM.
#37
I'm really disappointed in the BAD engineering design (upper management decisions) of nearly all vehicles out there today. Engineering has been progressively pushed to design for the quick build, get it out the door, make the money, and to heck with the maintenance needs down the road. We have all seen this with any number of vehicles that we might have worked on. I have worked direct and contract in the engineering and quality assurance departments for BMW, Freightliner, Audi, American La France, Western Star, Porsche, and Volkswagen over the years and witnessed their objective first hand. The early vehicles were not bad at all, but as things became more competitive, that changed. My favorite vehicles to work on (professionally and at home) were most any air cooled Porsche, the pre-1968 VW, the Ford flat head, and the V8 Olds and Chevy engines.
Last edited by JamesPDX; June 28th, 2011 at 08:24 AM.
#38
Sorry to leave you hanging...I haven't been able to get on for a while. The plenum cone is bolted to the center of the intake plenum floor. It is sealed with high temp fuel resistant rtv sealer to the floor. You can get them at Mondello's. I had mine installed at the same time the intake was ported at Nickens Brothers Racing Engines here in Houston.
#39
Ok fellas, here is the latest: Body work is 90% complete and should be finished this week.
The windshield rust repair:
Rear window rust repair:
W-25 Hood mocked up:
If you are considering an aftermarket hood, I will say without a doubt VFN is the way to go. This hood was mocked up right out of the box and only needs MINOR adjustment to make it a PERFECT fit.
The windshield rust repair:
Rear window rust repair:
W-25 Hood mocked up:
If you are considering an aftermarket hood, I will say without a doubt VFN is the way to go. This hood was mocked up right out of the box and only needs MINOR adjustment to make it a PERFECT fit.
Last edited by ah64pilot; August 23rd, 2011 at 09:58 PM.