Hey guys I'm inheriting this project F85 Deluxe from my dad. Hoping to have it running this week and driving by next, have big plans for the old A-body just need to see where she's at first...


Been a couple years since it was run...

A little patina and floorboard/body rust but the frame and mechanicals look good.

Cleans up pretty nice even with a waterless wash.

 

Welcome to the site, pretty ambitious time table. I would say, doing it right, over a month.

 

Thanks!

I'm hopeful she'll start right up with fresh gas. I pulled the plugs and put a teaspoon of marvel mystery oil in each cylinder last night, I'll be trying to get it to turn by hand in a few minutes. Battery went to full after a night on the tender. Assuming it turns over by hand I'll move on to draining the tank and getting whatever bad fuel is left in the lines out, get it turning over without fuel then hook the line back up to see whether the carb is gunked and going to need a rebuild, hoping not...

It was roadworthy until about 2 years ago when the brakes went out on him and he just never got around to resolving that issue, so the brakes will be next. If I can get both those things accomplished all she should need is some fresh rubber.

I've got a lot to learn about these old Olds so I'll try to keep it slow...

 

The old engine turns by hand... so that's good at least.

 

Glad to have you with us!

 

Thanks! I'm excited, my first V8. My DD is an S2000 and my last project (that I need to sell...) is a 77 Fiat Spider, looking forward to something the polar opposite to 2 seater 4 cylinder convertible...

I think oldcutlass was onto something, turns out she's been sitting 7 years, not 2, I found out tonight. Had to pull the old fuel lines (rotted) and the battery is toast (no lights) so I couldn't try to crank it tonight... hopefully it's toast, otherwise I may have a wiring nightmare on my hands... a battery change is easy but I hate electrical work...

 

I was going to say, that car looks like it's been sitting for a lot longer than you think. My 62 had been sitting for 30 years before I put it back on the road. Assume you need to replace everything in the brake system, and all the rubber parts in the fuel system.

 

Yep, all rubber must go! I removed the 2 fuel lines at the rear of the car and the inlet line at the front of the car, I'll be buying some new rubber for those lines today as well as a new battery. Looks like I may as well replace the heater hose and radiator hoses while I'm at it. The tires are surprisingly holding air, but I've ended up on the side of the road from trusting old feathered tired before so I'll need to get some cheap tires.

 

Just noticed you're in NOVA -- out of curiousity have you been to Katie's C&C? I've seen a couple 442s and other Olds there... perhaps they were yours.

 

No dice with turning over the car, the starter made a little noise the first couple times I tried to turn it over then went silent.

The motor turns easily by hand and all the other electronics are fine so I'm guessing either the starter is bad or the starter solenoid. No clicking noise at all so I'm guessing it's the solenoid.

I plan to put it up on stands the next time I'm back at my dad's place and replace the starter solenoid with a new one I just got in the mail, hopefully that gets it turning over.

I noticed brake master cylinders are cheap so I think that's what I'll order next so I can get the drums working. I'd like to do a disc conversion for the front in the long run(car already has 15" alloys) but it looks like I'll need a different BMC for that, or a different plunger at least...

 

Lets us know whats up after you replace the solenoid. if it turns over great, if not you may have some rusty ground wires where the contact points are..Those old GM starters are almost bullet proof...

 

Welcome! Have some patience, enjoy making it come to life otherwise you will end up unhappy. Good luck!

 

Will do, thanks!

There's a bunch of gunk caked onto nearly everything under the heads on the engine, so God only knows. My Fiat has like 5 grounds in the engine bay, I was glad to see the electronics look better on this Olds...

I figured the starter is probably solid, those are pretty damn simple, and solenoids go bad all the time comparatively. Plus, zero noise... unless there's some fuse I could have blown it's hard to imagine not hearing at least a click on ignition.

To be honest I probably would start with doing a frame off restoration but my dad's on hospice care so I'm hoping to get it running and give him one more ride in the car before he passes. The carb looks great and I'm sure I can get the brakes at least functioning... so I'm hopeful I can meet that impossible to predict deadline. One more ride.

Then the real project begins.

 

Thanks!

Trying to move with purpose but without rushing...

 

Nothing wrong with a S2000 4 cylinder at 9000 RPM, different strokes for different folks. I swing both ways 2 seater roasters and old timey 50 era cars, rag tops of course. This is the place to be for anything Oldsmobile. Welcome aboard..... Lost in the fifties.... Tedd

 

Thanks for the welcome! The S2000 is near perfect for what it is, a true driver's car and perfectly balanced; I just planned on owning it a couple years but I'm not sure I can ever let it go. It's one of the last of the quasi-analog generation of sports cars. I've got a 2006 so unfortunately I *only* get to rev to 8200, but on the plus side peak torque hits quite a bit earlier.

I love the old muscle and 50s/60s cars, so this will be fun in a whole different way. It'd be nice to eventually be able to run a bit quicker in a straight line with the Olds.

 

Ahh now your self imposed tight time frame makes all the sense in the world. Best wishes to you and yours and Godspeed on the project.

P.S. With regards to you replacing brake parts. I recommend upgrading to a dual reservoir master cylinder. Particularly on a quick fix. I've had brakes go on me over the years. A second reservoir can be a very effective insurance.

 

Had a chance to get the olds up on Jack stands this week.

The first thing I realized, of course, with the low comp motor the starter solenoid is totally inaccessible without removing the crossover pipe and unbolting the starter. That'll be my plan the next time I have access to the car, and I can swap the new solenoid onto the starter.



This is *after* cleaning...



Gonna need a socket extension for this...

While I was there I took a minute to take pictures of all the stampings/markings I could find:

Block marking... it's a 330 (duh)



#2 head... saw one sight saying this was 66-68, but I'm guessing it's 65-65 since I'm guessing the 330 with the #1 head was the earlier rocker version.

Gotta look into what all this means...

Rochester 2 barrel. Gonna upgrade the intake manifold... seems like the A4 aluminium manifolds from the 80s 307s are maybe the best option for something I could find in a junkyard. Thoughts?

I think this is a 64-68 stock ddbl intake manifold?

 

You should be able to unbolt the starter and drop it without removing the crossover pipe. The trick is to loosen the battery cable where it is tied down so you have enough slack. Unbolt the starter, slide it forward away from the bellhousing until the nose clears, then angle the nose down and drop it out between the pipe and the bellhousing. Of course the converter dust cover needs to come off first.

387491 is a 1964-65 2bbl intake.

Cowl tag as follows:

05B = second week of May, 1965 assembly date
ST65 = 1965 model year
33669 = Oldsmobile (3) F-85 Deluxe V8 (36) 4dr Sedan (69)
LAN = Lansing assembly plant
29140 BODY = Fisher Body sequence number
923- = blue cloth bench seat interior
C-C PNT = Provincial White lower and upper body color
ACC Codes:
Group 1
S = Power Trunk Release
Group 2
A = Foam padded front seat cushion (standard on the Deluxe models)
Group 3
D = Door edge guards
Group 5
W = Deluxe front seat belts with retractors

 

Thanks for the cowl tag info!

Good to hear on clearing the pipe that'll make things a bit easier!

 

I moved your thread out of the Newbie section to a Projects and build thread as most don't pay attention to the Newbie section

 

Nice, thanks. I was planning on making a new thread once I got it running but looks like that could be a couple weeks or so... so more eyes probably a good thing.

Once running/driving I'll be working through:
tires
interior/upholstery
Sheet metal repair
Body work

Then I'll move on to the fun stuff!
brake upgrade/suspension
Engine performance (planning on going a bit wild here)
stereo/comfort
paint

 

Thanks I'll look into the dual reservoir BMC... guessing that would support a later front disc conversion. All the body damage on the car is from when the brakes went out on my dad backing it down his driveway, clipped a neighbor's boat. He never got around to fixing the brakes.

He'd had to make a hard stop on the freeway earlier that day, not sure if that indicates he cooked the fluid, or if the drums are shot. Hopefully the former.

 

Weekly update: I pulled the starter. Replaced the solenoid. Tested on the ground, worked OK. Reinstalled, turned the ignition, it made a few clicking noises then stopped. Put it on a tender in start mode (+50A), did the same thing. Battery is new, 650 CCA, so should be enough juice. All wiring cleaned and no fraying/decay that I could see.

I have it trickle charging right now @2A, going to try again late this evening. Feeling closer...

Went ahead and cleaned while I had components off...

The wires are a bit more spread out than before, I hope I didn't introduce a short....

 

Got a little closer over the weekend but couldn't get it cranking. I left the battery on the tender overnight but vehicle electronics were still off. Lights only work while on tender. Starter engages on the 50A starter setting, but not enough to turn over obviously. Didn't have a multimeter to check the battery.

I'll be bringing a known good battery and a jumper unit with me next time I head down. After removing the battery I'm going to wrap every exposed wire I can find in electrical tape, then hook up the good battery and give it a try. If it still won't run the electronics then, without the tender, I'm pretty sure I've introduced a short...

I cleaned the brake reservoir and put some in, level dropped and it leaked right under the middle of the engine. I'll have to look at the chassis manual and see if I can figure out where it's leaking from, I'm guessing a bad hose. Maybe that's all that's wrong with the brakes...

 

Major project creep. Couldn't get it started with the 2bbl so I decided to go ahead and do the intake swap I'd planned. Pulled the valve covers and discovered old valve seal debris, so I'm replacing those. Springs look original and I'm planning on running a turbo through a Sniper EFI and want some added seat pressure to offset the boost (about 105-120# at seat) so I'm researching which springs to use.

Decided to match port the intake before installation.

I used to machinists grease / glue on approach. Glued gaskets to heads, applied blue dye to gasket, red dye to intake, clamped together, left to set overnight, pulled it apart this morning. As people had mentioned with the 7111s, the ports were def mismatched.


A little flash rust because I've been slow to paint.

Prussian Blue on gaskets

Red on the intake manifold

Clamped together

End result showing what I need to remove

I'll need to get some carbide bits for my drill and grind it down with some oil as lubricant, then it'll be ready for cleanup and reinstallation.

From there, I'll finish up the valvetrain, finish up the brakes, get new tires and buy and install the Sniper EFI and supporting components. I also have a Quadrajet I rebuilt that I could install and use for a while.

Once I'm back on the road it'll be time to source and install a 200-4R & work on the interior and body.

Then once everything is sorted, I'll start buying the turbo components & building that out to plan.

Trying to keep the momentum going while I have motivation.

 

If that's really the case, pull the heads and have them done. Get teflon seals.

 

Doing this as a proof of concept, see how it runs with factory flowing heads running ~6psi for the street. Maybe I'll hit 350HP at the crank.

My thought was at the end I'll have everything I need to source a 350 block and do a full build with aluminum heads, get a custom turbo cam cut, run higher boost using the forged crank out of the 330, aftermarket rods, low compression pistons, maybe figure out an approach to run twin turbos instead of a single run off the crossover exhaust.

I'll have at least 4 months of getting things sorted out with the transmission & other stuff, could always decide to pull the 330 and do a full rebuild on it then, but it doesn't seem worth it for a low comp 45 degree motor. On the other hand if I get another motor to build from the ground up I can just pull and swap all the components, and drive it in the meantime.

I figure I may as well do the valve spring upgrade now since the old springs look original and at least a couple clearly need to be replaced.

 

Although your recommendation does remind me there's an old drag racer that runs a shop nearby that one of my neighbors used and his rates seemed shockingly reasonable for the engine work he had done. It's likely worth reaching out to see what it would take to have the existing heads done since I'm already 90% of the way to having them off & that would make the valve springs easier.

 

What would you recommend for machining if I went this route? Having the head cut to take 403 valves and run a thicker custom head gasket (with adjustable pushrods) to drop the CR along with porting?

I'd like to see what it would price out to in my area.

 

You better pull the motor as you add new parts and raise the HP the rod bearings are the first thing to go and timing chain is second. Its your car.
Gerald

 

Hmm now I'm leaning towards just getting it back together and running and starting to build a motor from the ground up on a stand. I'm planning on scoping through where the fuel pump mounts tomorrow to take a look at the cam gear's condition, but if rod bearings tend to go with less than 400HP there's not much point in doing anything beyond stock until I'm ready to do everything. Maybe I can source another 330 crank so I can avoid having to tear down the existing motor in the process.

Thanks for the fair warning.

 

Nylon cam gear looks intact & the teeth don't look sharp, shockingly. Rounded a bit from wear obviously. This was the best photo I could grab but I got some better looks I wasn't able to capture.

 

The head gaskets are steel shim. They tend to rust out over time and with boost the old gaskets probably won't hold up.

 

Yeah I'm leaning towards keeping the 330 stock other than the intake / fueling and build a motor on a stand to swap in later.

That way I can tear it down & replace rods, timing gear, cams, and anything else I'd want to and know there's nothing that's dying to fail after 55 years of duty.

I'll get the 330 running and driving in the meantime.

 

Motor is back together. New valve springs, lifters and valve stem seals, 7111 installed and the quadrajet I rebuilt on top. Just need to drain the oil & fuel, and finish hooking up the carb. No leaks while filled without pressure, at least.

The paint is the VHT gold flake, trim is VHT "bright blue" caliper paint.

Hopefully I'll be trying to start it by the weekend, getting back to the brakes tomorrow when the daytime temp gets back into the 50s here in the DMV.

 

And I just realized I never gave the critical update. My Dad passed last summer, the weekend after I had it turning over with a good battery. I'd have kept going down the 2bbl route in the interest of time if he hadn't passed. The car's at my home and garaged now at least... and I will get it running & back in good condition.

 

Turns out the remaining leak to the brakes was the master cylinder itself. I installed a new one last weekend. I was able to loose the bleeder on the passenger rear and gravity bled it. The driver rear sheared off so I'll have to replace the wheel cylinder there. I'm going to attempt the fronts this weekend. Pedal seems tight already just need someone to give a push while I apply the brakes to test them.

Fuel filter is installed and all fuel lines are new. Tank is drained. I'll be fueling it up this weekend.

Still need to drain the oil (again) and modify the throttle linkage rod and qJet to work together. I'm a bit curious how close the pedal will end up to "to the metal" when it's fully depressed.

 

I don't know what magic Rochester used in the steel but I'm about an hour into drilling into this sucker and progress is slow.




Just one last roadblock I guess... in retrospect I should have just converted it to cable-throttle.

 

Sharp drill bits, slow speed, and cutting oil. That's only mild steel. You should be making spiral chips as you drill.