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Thanks for any input. So I bought the car in 2008 and finally this July I found the funds to begin the restoration/upgrades. I'm a complete novice so I'm highly interested in opinions of Olds enthusiasts. Currently I've changed ,the stock 2 speed transmission to a 200-R4 or 4R keep seeing both seems to be the same trans. This version is the 2dr Coupe with the Buick V6. Not sure if the transmission change was the right thing to do but it's done the shop I brought to suggested it. So is the V6 worth keeping? What options do I have with the new transmission for a larger/more HP engine? Please advise. Advice is highly appreciated. Thank you all.
Welcome to CO. Bunch of '64 F85 enthusiasts here to assist. Nice car.
Thank you, looking forward to advice and know how from folks that are familiar with this vehicle. It will be put to good use and postings as I incorporate the changes. Feel free to suggest what you would do and if you believe the transmission change was the right thing to do.
Welcome, yes there is a lot of early A-body members here. My thread has tons of pictures and information. Maybe give some ideas what you want to build. A 200-4R is a great transmission to start with, however it will not live with a Olds V-8 built with any power. I have a stock 67 400E Big Block Olds in my 64 F-85 with a modified 200-4R. Although the 400E( 65-67 442 motor) is rated stock at 350HP the trans was built to handle up to 500HP. I plan on adding more HP at some time!!. AND your car is a beloved "post car" these are getting hard to find especially an example like what you have, great find.
If your looking for an engine that will get you from point A to point B the rare optioned v6 will do just that. If you want to get there with some zing and excitement think about getting a V8. The 330 would have been the 8 cylinder in there for 1964 but the 350, 403, 400, 425 and 455 will also fit mated to the proper trans that can handle the extra horses. Of course upgrading the engine will require other upgrades such as radiator, coil springs, possibly brake hardware, etc.
Welcome to the site, it costs about the same whether you rebuild a small block or big block It really depends on your intent on how you will use the car.
Welcome, yes there is a lot of early A-body members here. My thread has tons of pictures and information. Maybe give some ideas what you want to build. A 200-4R is a great transmission to start with, however it will not live with a Olds V-8 built with any power. I have a stock 67 400E Big Block Olds in my 64 F-85 with a modified 200-4R. Although the 400E( 65-67 442 motor) is rated stock at 350HP the trans was built to handle up to 500HP. I plan on adding more HP at some time!!. AND your car is a beloved "post car" these are getting hard to find especially an example like what you have, great find.
Thanks for the reply. So my hope for the new transmission was to be be able to"plug and play" a new motor without any mods to the transmission. I would like more hp but not necessarily to drag race. With a new motor dual exhaust. Some forum sites I've been looking at but didn't join suggest to other enthusiasts to keep it "pure" and use an Olds engine in a classic Olds car which I kind of liked that idea. How hard/easy are they to find? What type of upgrades will be required of the transmission to bump up to say 350hp? I've got an opportunity to buy one of three 454's which are Chevy BB?. One rebuilt at 72k for $2500, another 85k for the same and the 3rd BRAND NEW for 4k which is a steal IAW what I see online. I'll be meeting the gentleman next week and may buy the new one. I'm not sure if it's too much hp for the 200-R4 or myself. I really would like a weekend cruiser and this may not be the right fit for both the transmission and myself. So much to learn.
If your looking for an engine that will get you from point A to point B the rare optioned v6 will do just that. If you want to get there with some zing and excitement think about getting a V8. The 330 would have been the 8 cylinder in there for 1964 but the 350, 403, 400, 425 and 455 will also fit mated to the proper trans that can handle the extra horses. Of course upgrading the engine will require other upgrades such as radiator, coil springs, possibly brake hardware, etc.
Yeah good points I've been laboring over whether to keep it more original and keeping the V6. But then I hear and "feel" the sounds of the bigger hp'd engines and dual exhausts and I'm torn. Why is the V6 "rare optioned"? I did upgrade the brakes to front disc. The initial work I've had done are complete front and rear suspension replaced, new front disc rear drum, new master cylinder with new NiCu brake lines and new gas tank with NiCu lines and of course the 200-R4.
Very nice and unusual car with the V6. Car is yours to do as you please. I really like the V6 just for the novelty of it but I remember they were shaky and doggy. Big Block Chevy would be a mover for sure, so would big block Olds. Sorry I'm no help....
Beautiful car! Knowing what you want out of the car and your budget will help us give you some direction.
Thanks. The current state of the car will probably remain till spring time giving me time to gather information and direction from here. I currently have on order the foams/upholstery for the interior which will be my winter project and I'll post as I develop that taking tips from the forum for best practices. I have the original floor carpet still in good shape.
My budget is in the 4-8k range for the engine compartment. I want to keep that carbureted no EFI/electronics. I also would've liked to install the floor console but not sure how extensive that would be to install or whether it's possible with the 200-R4 AT but looking online for one was upwards of 2k...wow, maybe not.
Don't have any production figures for the 6 cylinder but from what I see most 64's had the 330 and very few seem to retain the V6, they get swapped like the idea you are thinking about. My brother did the same thing in his F-85.... A 454 is a Chevy engine, I don't recommend as I and a lot of others here are Oldsmobile purists...keep it all Oldsmobile. But this is just my opinion.
Welcome to the site, it costs about the same whether you rebuild a small block or big block It really depends on your intent on how you will use the car.
Thank you that's good to know. I'm not sure if I should stay with Olds and keep it "pure". Not that I'm going to sell the car anytime soon hope to pass it down to my daughters. Does keeping with Oldsmobile help with resale values? I told my daughters it will be there's to do as they see fit one day, hopefully no time too soon! 💪
Very nice and unusual car with the V6. Car is yours to do as you please. I really like the V6 just for the novelty of it but I remember they were shaky and doggy. Big Block Chevy would be a mover for sure, so would big block Olds. Sorry I'm no help....
Haha funny. Yeah I did do some research on the V6 and you're right. The articles I've read say the firing order was unusual. Sold it to Jeep then bought back the rights 4-5yrs later. Confusing
Don't have any production figures for the 6 cylinder but from what I see most 64's had the 330 and very few seem to retain the V6, they get swapped like the idea you are thinking about. My brother did the same thing in his F-85.... A 454 is a Chevy engine, I don't recommend as I and a lot of others here are Oldsmobile purists...keep it all Oldsmobile. But this is just my opinion.
Thanks for your opinion. The consensus from Olds enthusiasts is clearly stay with an olds engine. Now my question would be which one is best for the 200-R4 and what required mods, if any, will then be needed to pair up with this transmission?
350 hp out of a 350 olds is easy. You can usually find complete engines for 3-500 dollars. I would talk to a reputable transmission shop in your area and ask about what needs done to the 200 4r trans to take the power you are looking for. I have a built 200 4r trans in my 72 behind a stout big block and haven’t had any issues for 10 yrs. My trans guy used all Art Carr hard parts with a cost of almost 3000$. You shouldn’t need to spend that kind of money for what you are doing. A 350 horse small block Olds with a 2004r and a 3:42 rear gear to me is a perfect cruiser/weekend hot rod.
As far as a big block goes it will be heavier in the front and you will need appropriate springs to hold the weight. A small block can sound just as good as a big block and will generally get better gas mileage. I am in the process of restoring my 64 and I’m using a 330 for now but I’m collecting parts for a 350 build that I’m concentrating on lots of mid range torque for a fun driver.
Nice car...the Buick V6 is 225 CID rated @ 155?HP. It is the first version of the 231 3.8L Buick V6 odd fire. It was also used in Jeep and OMC marine applications. They idled roughly but overall were OK, weak points were timing chain tensioners that knocked and worn oil pumps that were built into the front cover. It will have a unique distributor rotor, take a look at the elongated contact on the outer edge.
What motor to put in...coupled to a trans upgrade, I'd look for a 330CID Hi Compression preferably with a Quadrajet carb and intake. A 350 CID High Compression would also be good. The 64' 330's had a shaft rocker set-up which is difficult to find parts that work.
I vote for keep it OLDS all the way!
Good luck!!!
Last edited by Sugar Bear; September 12th, 2020 at 10:18 AM.
Nice looking '64. I had a white '64 Cutlass many years ago with the 330 4bbl motor which I loved except for the rotted floor panels; it was a great driver. If you decide on a 330 cu in motor, try to obtain a '67 motor as the earlier versions had the 45 degree lifter bank which is most times more difficult to find replacement camshafts. As stated above the 350 cu in motor is also a shoe in as all the later model Olds engines share the same basic architecture.
I'm not sure if I should stay with Olds and keep it "pure". Not that I'm going to sell the car anytime soon hope to pass it down to my daughters. Does keeping with Oldsmobile help with resale values? I told my daughters it will be there's to do as they see fit one day, hopefully no time too soon! 💪
Your car was born a hybrid, (Buick, Olds, combo) In my opinion its only pure as is. In turn although I am a purist I would think you can go either way with engine swaps and maybe beyond. No one can ever reset how a car was born, officially. Putting an Olds 330 in her doesn't reset purity because it never was.
If someone has a 1970 442 W30 and swapped in a 454, resale value will take a monumental hit. People often buy Olds with an Olds engine in mind. That is not the case with your car...
Originally Posted by LARams1
I've got an opportunity to buy one of three 454's which are Chevy BB?. One rebuilt at 72k for $2500, another 85k for the same and the 3rd BRAND NEW for 4k which is a steal IAW what I see online. I'll be meeting the gentleman next week and may buy the new one. I'm not sure if it's too much hp for the 200-R4 or myself. I really would like a weekend cruiser and this may not be the right fit for both the transmission and myself. So much to learn.
I wouldn't trust a GNXs 200-4R with a 454s torque even if it was the bottom of the production barrel 454. Big block engines should be mated to big block transmissions (THM400) or the like. 200-4Rs at best where designed to be mated to high permanence small blocks. Unless you pour an enormous amount of money into one to make it something it never was. You will also need a heavy duty rear end.
In any case welcome aboard and best of luck whichever way you go.
Oldmoboogie, Sugarbear, 670 & 69CS. I'm seeing the consensus here and you've all got me convinced to seek a 330ci or 350 Oldsmobile SB. Thank you for spending the time to read and comment your opinions, they're extremely valuable to me. I will begin a search for the SB Oldsmobile engine tonight and let the forum know when I aquire one. Any specific sites you'd recommend to thin the search?
Review this CO web page. Place an ad in the Parts Wanted and review the Parts For Sale. Chances are someone may already have the engine you're seeking. GL
I hope you are able to keep it all Oldsmobile. I have a big block with 391 gears and a turbo 400 trans. Fun car, but not highway friendly. A mildly built 350 would make you nice cruiser with a little get up and go. Take your time ,ask a lot of questions. Most importantly have fun and don’t overspend!
Wanted to let all of you that have been absolutely instrumental so far directing and helping me understand what to search for. Please look at the links below and let me know if I'm headed in the right direction.
This one I found intriguing only because it's a plug and play for the 200-4R, or it seemed that way. A few questions. The article says it's only 260hp but mods to the carburetor would increase the hp to max 275hp. How much would headers increase the hp? Thanks again for anytime you may spend reading and commenting your opinions. I'm such a greenhorn.
That engine looks like a core, not something to drop in and go, Its a low compression engine with EGR emission system hence a 73-74 or newer engine. $850 for a 350 like that doesn't seem like a deal to e.
Olsmaniac thanks for the heads up. Do you have an opinion on the article that uses the 330ci? When the article states 260hp up to 275hp with carburetor mods and breathing is the breathing a reference to headers? I'd like to get at a minimum around 320's hp.
The 350 is plentiful as opposed to the 330. Breathing in my opinion for any engine is a nice dual exhaust system, 4bbl carb, possibly an aftermarket intake, slightly bigger than stock camshaft and some slight improvements on the cylinder heads like larger intake valves and perhaps some mild port work and A-I-R bumps in the exhaust ports in the heads ground down. For a street car with mild horsepower increases headers in my opinion are more trouble than they are worth and I don't think there are many or any choices for headers in your year with a small block Olds engine. As mentioned above if your heart is set on a 330 look for a 67 with #4 cylinder heads due to cam angle.
No to my heart set on a 330. I thought the plug and play option if I could get more hp than the article stated would be the easier option. I definitely want to do the right thing for the car and myself. The 350 is by far the prevailing opinion amongst the Olds community and happened upon the 330 article. The 350 with the transmission is 850 w/o the seller wants 400 but I'm inclined by the wisdom of all you posters (thank you, thank you) to be sure to purchase the high compression which requires high test petrol, which I'm fine with for the future weekend cruiser. I'll keep looking. Thanks for your replies
Looks like you have a good base to start with! I recently finished my 64 Cutlass Hardtop build and did replace the 330 with a 68 Olds 350. Easy swap and you can keep the trans you have or go with a BOP TH350 trans like I did. They make good shift kits for the TH350 trans and should hold up to a Olds 350 with some juice. I also chose the Olds 350 as it looks close to the 330, so not original, but still an Olds motor. Parts are plentiful and everything fits. I have two build threads on this site for my 64 Cutlass and my 65 442. Take a look as I have documented most of my work. Let me know if you have any questions. Good luck as you move forward.
Steve
Welcome, yes there is a lot of early A-body members here. My thread has tons of pictures and information. Maybe give some ideas what you want to build. A 200-4R is a great transmission to start with, however it will not live with a Olds V-8 built with any power. I have a stock 67 400E Big Block Olds in my 64 F-85 with a modified 200-4R. Although the 400E( 65-67 442 motor) is rated stock at 350HP the trans was built to handle up to 500HP. I plan on adding more HP at some time!!. AND your car is a beloved "post car" these are getting hard to find especially an example like what you have, great find.
I meant to ask you earlier about the beloved "post car" you don't mean post as in post vs hardtop do you? If so I've always thought the post vs hardtop were less desirable. Just curious.
Steve thanks for your input. Helps to have a majority of posters in agreement. Makes my decision easy compared to pre-CO forum. BTW lots of nice rides posted on this thread. I'll continue to post to this thread as the car develops into a street worthy ride.
I have heard the hardtops without the "post" maybe more desirable perhaps because they are easier to locate because they made fewer post cars. Most were base model cars, very few options.
I don't think this is a terrible price for an original untouched 350CID 350TH combo. Even if its a 1976 version. I will agree that looks wise leaves a lot to be desired. Not saying jump on it, but if it runs right and all seems well... Prices can usually be negotiated....
One thing to keep in mind, there is nothing special to a 442 engine by 1976.
Originally Posted by LARams1
I asked the seller if this was a high compression version and if he could give me verification of the motor running or if it were ever rebuilt?
Here is a rundown on Oldsmobile 350, production was 1968 -1980. 1968-1970 were the only years that offered high compression versions. High compression versions require premium gas and octane boosters unless you retard timing. ( pull the timing back, slowing the performance down so engine can get by with **** poor gas ) 1971-1976 are all low compression but engine quality ( not power) is on par with 1968-1970. 1977-1980 are bottom of the barrel compromised engines ( designed to run well and be safe as is, not ideal for build up).
Every single Olds 350 regardless of year makes a minimum of about 200 HP and 300 FT LBS NET when 4BBL and true dual exhaust.
Originally Posted by LARams1
I'm such a greenhorn.
No worries, taking this stuff is some of the best parts of this hobby. Ask away, seriously.
69SC No doubt how ironic, the one I have and the one I want wow. So New Jersey isn't too far from Eastern CT. I should be getting ahold of the seller of that 350 and get some background information. I can drive and pick that one up easily. I'll let you know how that conversation goes tomorrow. I'm sure the price is negotiable if it pans out thanks for the heads up and the education.
September 11th, 2020, 05:51 PM
