Allan R

That would explain a lot! For the past ummm 25 years or so, I've been driving around with my 4 spoke slightly off center. You can't put the steering wheel on wrong, so I thought it was just a quirk of the car. That will work for me because I have the old linkage behind the shed. When I assemble the new one, I will try to adapt the tie rods accordingly.

Lady72nRob71

HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA..................

Good luck.
When assembling my new linkage, I measured them to my old ones down to the 1/4" and still ended up with 1.25" of toe.

I thought you could reposition the steery wheel on its splines, though you will lose a little turning radius on one side.

442_Mustang

U never want to change the steering wheel on the splines because theoretically that's the center of the gearset in the box and clearances are tightest. Some older vehicles only had one adjustable tie rod so you had to do it then but the correct way to do it is by adjusting the tie rods. It' not too tough to do anyways. Go 1/4 turn of the adjuster sleeves at a time. It won't take much but just remember to lengthen one and shorten the other buy the same amount and the toe setting should be very close. Good luck.

Allan R

WTH??? You mean I'm screwed, AGAIN??? How many times have I heard that diabolical laugh in the background of the garage??? Just send me your alignment jig tool thingy.... and idjit proof inkstruxions....

I'll have to measure down to within 1/32 to get it right then. Now I just can't remember whether the wheel was high or low on the left side.

Kind of curious about this though. What I'm understanding you guys to say is this is done with the full weight of the car on its suspension? You just back off the sleeve bolts and turn each one exactly the same amount, then tighten? repeat until the wheel is straight? Not sure if I'm following how this will correct the wheel center. But then, I'm not an alignment guy or engineer either....

Lady72nRob71

You know I would not mind letting you borrow my jig, but CAN postage would cost the same as the jig itself...
And for toe, you do not need the jig. Just attach another angle bracket to the other wheel, like I did my right.

Yes, weight on suspension, steery wheel unlocked. You turn each clamp in opposite ways at the same time. Tires are supposed to stay put and steery shaft turns instead.
Got it?

Never heard of this nor thought about it, but it seems logical. Looks like I might do that tomorrow when it warms up more.

Wait - what did I just say?????

MDchanic

It's pretty simple, really:

You just move the two front wheels while leaving the steering wheel in one place.

Right tie rod sleeve moves the right wheel with respect to the steering wheel.
Left tie rod sleeve moves the left wheel with respect to the steering wheel.

If the wheels point slightly to the left when the steering wheel is straight ahead, you just turn back the sleeves on each side until the wheels are straight again.
Left sleeve pushes left wheel away from the center,
Right sleeve pulls right wheel toward the center,
and, so long as you move them the same amount, you've done it!

- Eric

Allan R

When you put it like that, it makes perfect sense! Ummm, 1 dumb question, this is with the car running, right? Otherwise it would be too hard to move those sleeves?

Eric, I read your post 2X and I'm sure it makes perfect sense to someone with an alignment jig. But here's the thing, When the tires are both pointing straight ahead, it's the steering wheel that is 'off center'. Do you agree with what Rob posted? It seems like the most simple and practical way to fix the alignment of the steering wheel.

MDchanic

1. No, not with the car running. That would be annoying while working under it and accomplish nothing. Powering the PS pump would make it easier to make the wheels turn by turning the steering wheel, but would do nothing to help them turn from the other end.

2. Rob and I are describing the same thing.
I am assuming no equipment.
You drive the car, estimate the amount that the steering is off.
You park it, then move the steering wheel between straight ahead and the "wrong" position that you found that makes the car go straight ahead. Do it a few times and see how much it moves the tires.
Get under the car, and turn the sleeves (equal amounts) until it looks like the tires have moved about the amount that you want. Keep track of how much the sleeves have moved.
Drive the car again, and see if the wheel's still wrong. If it is, repeat the process, this time using the number of turns you made last time as a guide for how much to adjust.
When the steering wheel is steering straight, you can beg, borrow, or steal the alignment equipment and make sure you didn't screw it up with your adjustments.
In theory, if you are very careful and move both sleeves exactly the same amount, you will not disturb the alignment at all, and thus will not need to re-check or re-align.
This is much easier said than done.

- Eric

Allan R

So, should I do this adjusting before or after I get the steering aligned? I'm not even going to try and do it myself (the alignment). There are some shops here that specialize in older cars.

MDchanic

When you get it aligned, the "technician" (stoned kid with a wrench in his pocket) will line it up so that the steering wheel is pointing at 1:00 when you are going straight. 2:00 if you tell him it's real important to you for it to be straight.
Then you're stuck having to decide whether to go back and have the same kid, who obviously couldn't align the wheels on a riding mower, "fix" your steering wheel without totally screwing up the rest of the job (or screwing up your interior).

Ideally, it should be right when it comes out of the shop, but if it's not, this is a way to at least theoretically fix it. The problem is, if you bring it to a shop to have it checked after you do it, there is no guarantee they won't screw up the work you did, and if you don't, you really can't be sure you got it right without using, at the very least, two good straightedges and very careful measuring.

- Eric

Allan R

Marty is about 45 and takes his old cars pretty seriously. If I tell him to align it and make sure the steering wheel is pointing straight he will make sure it's within 1 micron of a parsec. Eric, probably most of the shops around your area don't do the quality you're looking for. I can only guess what kind of frustration it is for you. Luckily you are a knowledgable and mechanically gifted wrencher who probably can fix most anything. Wish you lived closer...along with a bunch of the other guys too. Your input and guidance/tips really helps - even if I don't 'get it' the first time.

MDchanic

Yeah, I've lived in a few places, Allan, and I've found the same thing all over.
Actually, I did find a guy not far from me who's about 50, not the brightest, but knows how to do the job.
On the good side, he worked on my car for 2 hours.
On the bad side, it still wasn't right when he was done.
Also, he's just an employee and has no control over whether he gets my car, and he has no control over the charges, for instance, if I have to come back.

That's why, in my experience, the only way to get the job done right is to do it myself.

- Eric

Allan R

Ok, I think we should all chip in collectively and build the C.O. Garage. All members could bring their cars in and use the facility under the careful guidance of several of you experienced gearheads. Would serve 2 purposes - expand the hobby and promote mechanical/electrical rebuilding competency.

I'm a big fan of doing things myself. Gives me a certain amount of satisfaction working with my hands - doesn't matter if it's auto, construction or general yardwork

Only problem would be location, location, location and start up costs. Probably not viable though in today's economy. Just looked at my sons Architect program: big money for the 1st 4 years if you go to another city or Prov. After that it just goes down. Wierd? The more experience pays the least money??? Crazy talk, that's just crazy talk. No wonder the world is so messed up. K. I'm done, Sorry bout dat.

DJS70cutlass

I work at a shop and have access to an alignment rack. When I rebuilt the front end of my cutlass in '99 it took 5 tries to get the wheel perfect. That was with all new parts. Now I just replaced all 4 control arms and springs(again) and I'm going to have to go through it all again

Sometimes it seems I just cant win

Lady72nRob71

My neighbors get their alignments done at NTB and their steery wheels are always cocked. No surprise, eh?

Today I (hopefully) fixed mine. The wheels were pointed straight ahead. I turned both adjusting clamps the same way little by little.

One word of advice - turn the music off, give yourself no distractions, and be comfy under there. I had to move around some during the process while listening to a good song, and ended up turning the right clamp back the opposite direction. New parts turn easily!

So now it was messed up, I set up the alignment jig again - only took a few minutes this time. I got the right one turned back the way it was supposed to be, PLUS I added about 1/32 to 1/16" of toe-in for directional stability. In the beginning I had this amount of toe-out, which could cause the car to pull on tar strips, grooves, etc.

Knowing how to do this is valuable. It saves not only money, but TIME. Here in dallas it is a one hour wait minimum for most car work aside from oil changes. Doing it myself takes about the same amount of time, plus i am careful with my fresh paint...

I will get her inspected tomorrow afternoon and hopefully go for a longer, more fun drive!!

442_Mustang

If you bring your car in for an alignment, they had dang well better get the wheel at least very close to straight.I used to be a mechanic and did brakes, alignment and driveline. I had a few comebacks because the wheel wasn't straight. (Some roads do have more road crown and that could affect it.) Best story about it was I aligned a Ford Fairmont for a guy. Little tiny older guy. All was good,until the following Monday. The car was back. Had a pull. I set it up again, checked everything. Nothing had moved. Test drive was fine. No pull, steering wheel straight. My boss test drove it and gave it his blessing as well. Customer took it away but a few days later, it was back with a pull. This time the wife brought it back. We figured out what the problem was. She was a building. Ended up aligning this car with one guy in the drivers seat,and 2 (Yes, TWO) guys standing on the rocker with the door open hanging on to the driprail.
Problem solved and another happy customer. Ha ha ha!!!

MDchanic

Now THAT, 442_Mustang, is the kind of excellent service we all wish we could still get.

- Eric

442_Mustang

Well now as a body tech we do a TON of free work. Fixing unrelated dents, replacing any burned out bulbs, adjusting doors. I had a job not long ago where i replaced a fender and a bumper cover. We ended up having to blend paint color onto the hood so the painter had to strip the front edge of the hood because of all the chips and then got into the other fender that got painted as well. I'm getting kinda tired of those kinds of freebies.

Allan R

Probably needed new springs on the DS too! Feel sorry for the little old guy if he had to drive it...probably pulled like crazy to the right....Well that would make it hard to steal. Wait! what am I saying - a Ford Fairmont? There's a car someone really wants steal.....Shoulda bought an F350

442_Mustang

I still remember it well. Yellow with a gold 2 tone down the center of the sides. I dont know if he paid extra for that but it was almost as scary as the wife. You feel sorry for the guy because it pulled to the right? I feel sorry for him if she rolled over in bed. Seems to me they were hoarders too.

frankr442

Possible word of warning if you take your car to an alignment shop. If you have a junk steering wheel lying around, take ten minutes and put it on. I saw a nice 4-spoke get damaged by the hook used to hold the wheel straight.

Allan R

You're assuming she would fit in the bed If she did there would be no room for him by the sounds of it. Probably snored louder than a jet turbine wound up for launch

MDchanic

Don't laugh. Before they passed away from old age, my in-laws used to sleep with him on the floor, her in the bed. Every night.

- Eric

Lady72nRob71

Last week on Friday I took half a day off so I could get Lady inspected and then go for a longer drive, since the weather was great.

First note to mention, I overcorrected the tierods and now the steery wheel is now a little cocked to the other direction. Not as bad, so I will deal with that later. I can see why alignment guys have trouble with this.

She passed inspection with flying colors as usual. The old guy who is usually there was training a young guy who had obviously never heard of Olds. On the sticker he wrote “GMC”…
She attracted the attention of other employees as well. One guy asked if my wife liked riding with me and I told him I have never been married. He said, “well, with a car like that you don’t need a wife – just go drive around and let ‘em hop in!”

So after that I had Cedar Creek Lake in mind, a favorite place of mine for many years. I took off towards the northeast farm roads. A guy in a Trailblazer yelled “Sweet car!” as I passed by him. We met up at a light and we talked a little bit.
At another light further up I was in the left turn lane. Light turned green for everyone. I waited (no arrow) and noone next to me started moving. After a full 10 seconds, I looked over and they were gawking. Finally someone in back of them honked and they all started moving.
I stopped in a back parking lot and inspected everything under the hood again. Everything looked good.

Now I hit the one lane farm roads.
Springs I noticed were firmer, but comfortable. Not harsh like many new cars. Rubber bushings absorbed small bumps and vibrations. I noticed a bit more vibration through the steering wheel, a combo of stiffer bushings and springs. She rode quietly and the steering was not sloppy at all. She drove straight, but there was just that “easy to turn” feel, which is the fault of the steery box. This will be fixed in spring by Chip.
Over the next 60 miles, I enjoyed the drive, and more high energy tunes from German singer Sandra.
On a short onramp to one of the highways, I got to hear the 4bbls kick in with that musical howl, even with the stock air cleaner. Glad I got them working again!

Since I was out that way, I stopped at my favorite liquor store at the lake to get a couple cases of beer. Three guys gave some nice complements on the car.
Since that store did not have pumpkin ale, I stopped at another store down the highway. The woman there got me some pumpkin cream liquor, but no beer. She said she loved my car…

At the next store I stopped at, I was bombarded by conversation…
A soon as I stepped in, a guy who was checking out yelled out “I’ll trade you a Jag for that convertible!” He was referring to his green mid 2000s Jaguar in the parking lot. I told him I don’t think so… Him and the owner chatted with me for a while.
When the guy was ready to leave, he made me a final “offer” of the Jag, two tractors, an excavator, a dump truck, and a pickup. Hehe…
Anyway, that place had no pumpkin beer and so just when I was ready to leave, a man and woman drive up and the woman thoroughly checks the car out. She comes in and we all talk a bit. She repeated “That is such a beautiful car” about a dozen times in five minutes it seems. I told her she was not too pretty when I started on her! He asks me to let them know when I want to get rid of it and I told them just give me your name and # and I will toss it in the hat with all the others...

I hit the road and continued around the lake.


Here is a picture of me - kind of..........


As I passed over a long bridge, I could see the lake was very low.
Note the public boat ramps up on high ground!

The islands had become much bigger!

Weather was great. Mid 80s and sunny!
I turned off onto another highway heading south. I got a big thumbs up from a guy in a 69 Chevy pickup as he passed by me.
I snuck in and out of the last store without any conversation, with a 6-pack o’ pumpkin beer in tote.
Each time I started the car, she fired right up quickly and easily.
On smooth roads, she drives so nicely. I notice body flex on bumps just like before, and I was hoping that was just the front end, but obviously not. I do have to remember she IS a convertible… She seems to understeer; maybe I need to reduce the caster amount some............

Lady72nRob71

I continued around the lake and got some pictures in Trinidad at sunset.
Note the operating farm tractor in the distance...




I drove on to the neighborhood where we had a house many years ago and parked at the boat ramp.





Lake was 5’ low and the ramp and dock were on dry ground.

There is a mansion about 400’ away across the bay and a big party was going on. I hear them faintly talking about my car and they even knew what it was from that distance! I hung around there for 30 minutes to enjoy the scenery and quietness. I love the water – quite mesmerizing to me as always; I did not want to leave.

So by 7pm, I had to go. This time, she cranked over fine but did not want to fire up immediately. It took about 4 seconds on the starter before she fired. Heat soak in the carb? The extreme slope I had parked at? Maybe because I have no fuel return system? Who knows. The starter was great, I know that, and that helped her to start sooner than before!

I made it back to the first liquor store I went to to have the lady there order some good pumpkin beer. Throughout this trip I was taking pictures and shooting short videos. Upon getting back on the highway carefully (due to gravel), I opened her up and got a great video capturing the sound of the secondaries breathing in hard. Here is when I wish the radio was not as loud…
It was getting cold out, but I kept the top down. Made it home in the dark just fine.
Night pics are hard to take in a moving vehicle!

I did get another good video of the colorful sunset.

No obvious issues came up afterwards, either.
Worst thing is that the engine paint has discolored all around the exhaust ports and in the center of the intake! What’s up with that?? I will send some pictures to POR15 and see what they say.

So in conclusion, it was a great cruise. Too short, but it was enjoyed. I love my Lady!

Jamesbo

Rob, Glad you got to enjoy a job WELL DONE.

Tom442

Awesome Rob! Must be nice to get all the thumbs up and kudos! Car is gorgeous...I like the look of the wheels without the trim rings...Is it the color or what I don't know...maybe just different. I assume you are going to leave them off? I am contemplating leaving them off on my 68. I will see what it looks like after they have tires mounted and put on the car. Oh yes and tell me what size tires you are running please?
Thanks and enjoy that car!
Tom
68 442 (polishing wheel opening trim this week)
70 F85

car_designer

Great to hear you are enjoying the car.

442_Mustang

Awesome! Thank you for the pictures and the descriptive post. The mind can almost envision being there with you. The German singer, Sandra? Nasik???

citcapp

Well done Rob, glad to see back on the road

Lady72nRob71

Yes sir! But after 5 months of work, I need to well exceed 5 hours of fun!

Thanks Tom...
I like the trim-less wheels also. I left them off after powdercoat and bonded with this look. I think the wheels look a little bigger like this. Also, it gives a more "business" look rather than beauty.
After your wheel repaint, leave the rings off for a while and see how you like it and listen to other's comments. Once you put them off, they have to stay due to scratching.
Tires are 225/70/R14.


But the best part could not be felt - the warm breezes and sunlight, the smells of the countryside, the feel of the road, and the constant sound of a healthy V8!

No, Sandra Ann Lauer, German pop singer. She outdid Madonna there in Germany in very little time!
In the early 90's, I picked up 3 or 4 of her CDs at a Vietnamese music store (not sure why they sold them there) and liked almost every song immediately. After 10 years of not listening to her, I got them out again and relived the past.
One of my favs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBER7nkQYrE

i am too, but too bad I missed 1 month out of our 2 month tops down weather. Winter cruising will be harder without a working heater.
I will finish the front end and A/C in spring and hopefully enjoy her all summer next year!

frankr442

The car looks great. The payoff was worth the time and effort. Regarding paint burning off at the exhaust ports, this works for me. Wire brush burned areas and give it a coat of Eastwoods Stainless Steel Coating. Let dry, then cure by running engine. Drive it a few days so it's good and cured. Now hit it with engine paint and be amazed at how long it lasts.

Allan R

Is the SSC a super high heat treatment? I don't understand how it will keep the POR gold from burning again since it will get just as hot

frankr442

I think the SSC provides enough extra insulation from the bare metal to make a difference. I know I used to have to touch up my ports all the time until I thought to try this. I figured if it works on manifolds and headers, why not heads?

joesw31

Rob,

Were getting some good car weather! I was looking at your temp gauge and it appears your engine was running a little hot.

What engine temp sending unit are you using?

442_Mustang

Yep... I love just driving my car too. I will pick a 2 lane farming road and just head out. I don't have a radio in my car so just the exhaust purring is the best. You have done a great service to Lady. I do gotta say though, when I had my car tore down I replaced my heater core and blower motor just so hopefully I wouldn't have to when it's together. Too bad your core ended up leaking. At least you know no bolts will be rusty... Also, regarding Sandra, I thought you may be a Guano Apes fan.:-)

Lady72nRob71

I might try it, as the paint has turned to manifold grey color right above the ports. I wonder if POR15 manifold paint will work? Have a lot of that left...
I noticed an area by the choke stove that I had to touch up ater paint has turned to black. That would have been a third coat for that small area, as the whole engine got two coats. I wonder if one is all you are supposed to use? Instructions did not specify....

Here is the left side...

And the choke stove...


Temp gauge was just a tad above middle line, which was 180* - I checked when i got home. Top of the gauge at H is 212, so she was okay. Hard to tell in that nasty picture...

I like listening to the exhast, too. There are times I go without music, depending on how long the trip is and if I am needing more concentration or not. In city traffic, i tend to keep the music off.

It did not leak inside at least - just the outer nips are deformed.
All I have to do under the hood to replace the heater core is to remove 3 thin speed-nuts on the evap case. I left the hardest to get at one off for now. The rest comes apart from under the dash.

Guano Apes?? Never heard of them.
BTW, guano is Spanish for bat **** - does not sound fitting for a good band......
That could not come close to this gal's beautiful smile!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQJw8...eature=related

442_Mustang

Ya... I know what Guano is... lol. They are a kinda progressive German rock band. Some of their stuff rocks and some of it can put you to sleep... "The Germans... Ya just can't stay mad at them!"- Homer Simpson.

442_Mustang

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFvCx6w_ptE
Her name is Sandra Nasik. Being from Germany, I think the last name is a bit too close to **** but what do I know... :-)

frankr442

I think the Stainless Steel Coating is effective because it's supposed to have actual SS particals in it. It goes on fairly thick but I have re-touched thin looking areas once cured.