Allan R

Question (anyone): Has anyone ever seen the reinforcement plastic that is supposed to bolt to the air dam deflector? My car doesn't have one and I've often wondered which cars got this? Is it an option? Only appears for 1972 A body cars - cannot find it on 70 or 71......Sorry I didn't photoshop this, but you can see one of the tabs clearly in the pic. It lines up directly in front of the steering box. This is on Page 13-2 of the CSM in Fig 13-5 http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/membe...Section_13.pdf

Lady72nRob71

You bet it's different!
1 prong on the horn relay for 72 vs 7 on the 80s-90s chime box.
Hence...
What i had meant was the 90'd Caprice chime was the same as the 80's Cutlii chime. Since I already knew how those chimes wired up, i used one of those.
Also I had several of them just laying around.

MDchanic

I put a boinger in my '90 GMC pickup after I left the lights on for the third time in a week - the dash lights are impossible to see in the daylight, and the switch itself is one of those weird paddle things that gives almost no visual indication that it's on.

I wired it up with a Radio Shack boinger ("BONG... BONG...BONG...") and a relay to go on if the parking lights are on, the ignition switch is off, and the driver's door is open. Now, if I could just remember how...

- Eric

Lady72nRob71

Dude, you need to get your terminology right.
As used in this thread:
Boinger = spring
Bonger = chime box


I did this in my Ford back in 1990. I used a piezoelectric beeper mounted on a relay. It still works but just sounds a little sick...

Tony72Cutlass'S'

My Cutlass doesn't make any sounds upon entry or exit from the cockpit. Is it supposed to?

MDchanic

Sorry, Rob. A binger. I mean a bonger. Guess so long as it's not a hummer, you can post it on this site.
I gotta study my nomenclature.

If you ask me, NO.

I pull the key wire out of every GM horn relay I find.

If you ask the factory, though, then there is supposed to be an unsteady, sick-sounding buzzer if you open the driver's door with the ignition key in the switch and the car off.

- Eric

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Cool!

One less thing to cross of my ever-growing to-do list..

Lady72nRob71

I would summon the Bell twins (Ding and Dong) to help you out with this, but only the Chinese Bell twins (Ting and Tong) are available.

Lady72nRob71

On Sunday I got a late start to the day, so only got 5 hours in...
I cleaned up the rotor surfaces with a razor blade (to remove some paint) and then with brake parts cleaner. A few spiders were displaced and their webs eradicated…
Here is where nitrile gloves are great!
I started with greasing the inner bearings and packing the inner hubs with disc brake bearing grease.


I had both rotors in position and parts ready so I could do them both in sequence. After both bearings were dropped into place, I peeled off the gloves and tossed them. I tapped in the grease seals with a hammer.


Next I flipped the rotors over by holding them in the disc center and placed them hub down on a small block of wood to avoid any touching of the disc surface. The seals would hold in the greased bearings. I put on a pair of new gloves and greased the outer bearings, packed the outer hubs, and dropped the bearings into place.


The gloves were again peeled off and trashed.

With some new gloves, the rotors were carefully slid onto the spindles while I held the outer bearing in with the nut.
I had put a THIN layer of grease on the seal surface of the spindle and gently rotated the hub while pushing it on to avoid damaging the seal.
When it was on, I tightened the nut, spun the rotor and torqued per the CSM instructions. HOWEVER, on both sides, it seemed that I had to loosen the nut too much to get the cotter pin on.

I was unsure what to do here so I decided to take a break and do some cleanup in the garage.
As I picked up the old bearings to trash them, the outer bearings had big washers stuck to them! I’ll be darned – it is amazing at what you forget and loose in that dirty mess over 4 months of time... I cleaned them up, pulled the nuts from the spindles, inserted the washers, spun, retorqued, spun, loosened, hand tightened, and popped the cotter pins in with NO loosening! GREAT!!
Moral of the story – do NOT toss old parts until the job is complete and you have looked them over well for other needed parts!


Now to move on the brake calipers…



The new Wagner Thermoquiet pads specified that NO anti-noise compounds be used on them.
So the inner brake pad had its spring attached and it was popped into the caliper piston.
The outer pad was held tightly in the caliper (with clean gloves and rags) and the ears clinched with channel lock pliers to ensure a tight fit to reduce noise.

The caliper is ready to mount.
I had forgotten to remove the masking tape from the caliper mount sliding surfaces from when I had painted them, so the caliper was tight.

After discovering and removing the tape, cleaning and LIGHTLY greasing those slide surfaces with brake grease, the caliper simply dropped on. The ends of the hex bolts got some brake grease and hand threaded on. When both were on, they were torqued.

Hydraulic hose was mounted and brake line connected. I made sure the flare nut could be started easily by hand to prevent cross threading.

Lastly the grease cap was installed. At first, the cap was too loose – I could push it on and the air trapped inside popped it out again. I had to bend a few sections of the rim to get it to fit tight.

All done withthe left side.


This was repeated for the right side as well.


If this car could talk, she would be proclaiming “Look - I have LEGS again!!”

Lady72nRob71

Installing a sway bar while listening to music that is…….

I put the bushings on the bar with slots forward. Note that old socks work well to keep the bar ends from scratching the chassis paint.


The bar was secured with the brackets and bolts but ONLY hand tight to snug it up for now.

So I discovered the Moog end links are taller than original. But what is original? Both of my old ones were different lengths than the moogies…

The top one’s cushions look newer though… Anyway, I was gonna give the moogies a try.

Upon installation, the clearances from the bolt to ball joint is close, but when the car is on the ground, the bolt will be away from the ball joint as the A-arms move.


End links were tightened and all seemed okay. Nothing is touching...


Another issue that came up is that the idler arm was contacting the sway bar. I had to loosen the idler, push it forward, and retorque it. I got almost 1/8” of clearance now.


So much for Sunday’s work…

Allan R

Tony, the buzzer is only supposed to sound if the key is in the ignition (any position). It was supposed to remind you to take your keys. After a bit of wear on the lock cylinder however, the spring contact usually wears down and the buzzer will only sound if you press the key 'in' slightly. I really don't like that annoying sound. Not that I like the bonging a lot either, but as Eric says, if it saves having to boost your car 3 times a week it's money well spent.

Allan R

Well done Rob! From the looks of things, mine will be just as easy. IYO, would installing the sway bar first have been helpful to avoid the idler issue?

I know which washers you're talking about on the outer bearings. I found mine right off the go, because my axle was running a little on the dry side. I sidelined them in a baggie with all the other parts to avoid losing them. According to CSM a little bit of loosening is ok when doing the cotters, just that you can't do that on the ball joints.

I also have the brake pads that require no anti squeal goop. Hoping they work as promised.

Don't see any grease around the ball joint areas of your suspension or steering, have you greased it yet, or did you just make sure it was meticulously wiped clean? I think I know the answer to this one.

Lady72nRob71

No.
When there is only one, it is set aside until I get another loner. Then I have a pair!
When they get holes, they are retired to the garage...

I thought about this but did not want to go so unoriginal!

You are wrong... Nothing is greased yet.
If you notice when the suspension is hanging, the boots are stretched open at the ball joint studs.
I wanted the car on the ground before greasing so that the grease fills the boot and does not come out around the studs.
It will be done when i get the car on ramps to torque the LCAs. But first I think i need some brakes on her...

joesw31

Rob, What will you be doing for allignment?

Lady72nRob71

Carpenter level, tape measure, plumb bob and can o' beer - the redneck way.
Procedure will be coming up...
Maybe I can get to that tomorrow after a LCA torquing and grease job...

kjr442

Rob don't forget a string line, sand on the floor and cardboard. If you need more beer, just let me know!

Allan R

Yup, plumb bob, billy bob, mary-lou bob and jim bob. Maybe even Bobby Hackett. No such thing as A can o'beer and you know it. Secret is to do the alignment first then have a couple o' cans o' cold stuff. I heard that the only reason you're a redneck boy is cause you spend too much time in the sun without 'protection'. Gawd I wish we had temps like you right now.....

Seriously, you just put the old spacers in and are going to have the alignment done professionally aren't you? I'd like to know how the drive to the alignment shop goes with all those new parts being 'slightly' out of tolerance from the previous ones. Take it slow and get there safe.

Lady72nRob71

Forgot about the sand - good call!
And send more beer - can never have enough!

Yep - ol' Billy for sure down here in the south!

That's right - it was a typo. I mean CASE o' beer!

We only get, like, two months of these nice temps per year it seems and it is running out fast now.

new shims were used but the same clearances were used. Camber checks "okay" with a level.

Finding an honest shop who will understand these old cars, do a good job, charge me for a TWO WHEEL alignment, and not tear up all the new paint will be VERY hard to find.......

Lady72nRob71

On Monday, I evaluated what the brake bleeding process would bring me. The bleeder screws on both calipers were seized, despite looking very good (as in not rusty) and having been loosened 4 years ago. This stinks...

The left side finally broke free after a couple hours of WD40 soaking.
I used a 3/8" 6 point socket on a quarter drive ratchet and tapped it with a hammer. After a dozen light hits, it began to turn!
That procedure did not work for the right. Therefore, I sprayed it again with WD40 and waited another hour.
I put the heat gun on it on low for about 5 -6 minutes just to where it was too warm to touch. After another 10 light hits, it came free!

I would have been pretty POed if they broke, as I had just spent a lot of time and effort restoring the old calipers. Also, these are not cheap. 45 bucks was the cheapest from RA and then I woulda had to send the cores back for 15 bucks and wait and later they deny the core charge since the bleed screws were busted off in there.

Ironically, the rusty looking dirty nasty rear cyl bleeders came undone with some simple pressure on the little ratchet. Go figure...
Nice - disaster has been diverted (for now...)
Crap – an hour wasted on just getting the stupid screws loose…
Well, the only meaningful progress was getting her feet put back on and lowering her back onto them…

I rolled her around the garage a little and she rolls easily and quietly!

Lady72nRob71

…and I do what she says!
On Tuesday, I got her upper control arms and sway bar torqued, now she is back on the ground. First I rechecked the UCA shaft to frame bolts. Next were the UCAs. The two rear nuts were a pain and inaccessible by torque wrench. I had to use open end wrenches and get them as tight as I could that way.
Air cleaner had to be removed and the steering shaft was covered to prevent paint damage.


The front ones were easily done with the torque wrench. I used these to get a “feel” (more like palm pain) of 55lbs with a wrench. I rechecked the back ones and tightened them a bit more.


Lastly was the sway bar to frame brackets.
Looking at the frame I am realizing the reasoning behind super-compressing an oversized bushing. There are indentions in the frame that the bushing will fill into when compressed. This will prevent the bushing form oozing out to the side over time and sway bar movement.
Here is the bushing uncompressed:


And here it is compressed with bolts torqued to 30lbs.


That ends another hour or so of fun…

Now to find a hot air pipe like this one...

Lady72nRob71

On Wednesday, it started with bench bleeding the MC for an hour - I thought those bubbles would never quit.
I think it was drawing in air from the plastic adapter ports...
I did not have a vice, but I screwed a block of wood to the bench top and supported the master with blocks of wood on the side like a cradle. I worked the piston with a nut driver.


I also had to remove bits of assembly grease that was coming out as I bled it.


Since the master’s fluid was only ˝ full, I carefully bolted it loosely to booster so it could move some, aiding in the brake line installation. Bleeder lines were removed one by one and brake lines attached and snugged.

So now I torque the master down, fill with fluid, and get ready to bleed!
I started with the left rear but I could not get any fluid out the left rear cylinder (as in not a drop).
I stuck a drill bit in it and it is not blocked at all...

So I go to the right rear screw - plenty of fluid comes out. So I use the little vacuum pump bleeder and suck fluid out. I found that those vacuum bleeders REALLY suck. Suck air that is, from around the threads of the bleeder screws, so there is a continual stream of little bubbles and you do not know when to stop bleeding. I refilled the master 5 times and the fluid looked clean, but still bubbles...

I go to the front and it sucks air again. I hear odd gurgling sounds while sucking fluid.
After a master full of fluid I called it good. I get to the other side and found a puddle of brake fluid!
Some DA left the front right screw open... I wonder who THAT was…
So after another 4 oz of fluid, I called it quits and cleaned up the mess.

I ran through two bottles of fluid (and probably half a bottle on the floor) but still have a sponge pedal...
Looks like I need to get more fluid and summon a helper here tomorrow to do the ol' tried and true pump and hold method.

There was 2 hours shot to hell.

Better luck…

On Thursday I had a buddy come over to help me bleed. This seemed to go better than yesterday.

However, we could not even force fluid out the left rear screw. I removed it and it was clear. I gently poked a small awl into the hole and fluid started to flow. So we bled it and the fluid was dirty but not excessively.

We did all 4 wheels and got a better pedal feel, but what defines good pedal?
The pedal goes down 1" with engine off, vacuum depleted, and after that it is fairly firm (small amt of sponginess).
Does this sound right? With engine running the pedal travel seems more it seems - different than before.. Of course since the MC was replaced and booster was rebuilt, the feel could be normal... I will try it out soon...

Allan R

Gee! Wonder where I heard all this before??? You were $hithouse lucky my friend. My right side bleeder was like yours, but hadn't been opened in over 25 years! I tried soaking and tapping. In the end I had to heat it to probably 150° to get it to release. The left side was 'welded'. No soaking or heat helped. BTW when I took in my core for the new LS caliper there were absolutely NO issues about the busted bleeder, and I got a reman AC Delco caliper with ALL the hardware (sans pads) to put it back in for $40.00 at NAPA. I probably spent more time and money on cleaning the old ones up than that!

Since I do not have AC my ps will be easier to torque. Same as you though for the ds probably. Any wiggle room for a universal to slide in there??

Yup, I think YOU are the only one who has ever done THAT!! I feel so embarrassed too....If you look around the room I bet you're going to see a bunch more sheepish grins and hands going up

joesw31

Rob, I did my allignment at home. I used some brick layer string, industrial tile, jack stands for the string, dial caliper, and SPC Performance 91000 FasTrax tool from summit racing (works awsome for the caster and camber). It takes a while, but the results are awsome.

Didn't use a can'obeer because I used some coffee as I was beating the heat...

Lady72nRob71

Can you explain a little more about this SPC tool? I checked it out and it looks like a good investment. How well does it work? I found the caster instructions to be confusing.
I would love to be able to do accurate alignments at home!

joesw31

The SPC tool works great and a good investment! The tool has two bubble scales on it one for the camber and the other for the caster. I did not buy the adapter for the toe in /toe out.

Just set the tool next to the front wheel, and zero the bubble for the camber and you mount the tool to the wheel, then, that is your camber.

Next, remove the tool and the bubble for the caster, then, the wheel away from until the pointer is flat with the boby, and then that is your caster. It's easy, and no one to scratch your car.

joesw31

The caster and camber was easy, the toe in and toe out toke some time. I used four jack stands, brick layer string, tile with grease, and a dial caliper.

1. place the front wheels on the greased tiles.

2. Straighten the wheel in the car

3. Remove the outer tie rods from the spindle

4. Adjust the distence of the front rim to the string

5. Adjust the tie rods

6. Fine tune the tie rods to the string.

Lady72nRob71

Joe, this sounds like a good tool! How many miles have you gone in vehicles adjusted with it? I assume good results each time?
The toe bars are rather costly for waht they do. Just bolt on a set of angle aluminum arms and cut some slots for the tape measure.

Gonna look into who else sells these and price shop a little...

ah64pilot

I thought about you tonight Rob...I had to detail my wiper motor because my dad broke the one I had semi-cleaned. He found me a new housing but it didn't work so I swapped my internals over to the new housing. Figured since it only gets removed once every 40 years I might as well make it look nice

joesw31

Rob, I don't drive the car very often. Maybe 50 miles at most, and maybe driven the car 200 miles this year...

I looked at the plates that are talking about, and decided to use the mason string as your reading will be off the actual wheel and not the tire.

The cheapest place that I found was summit racing

Rob, I can say the allignment is better than what a shop did for me a few years ago here Houston.

Allan R

Well that's better than 'dreaming bout him'!! zzzzzzz Rob, zzzzzz Rob? zzzzzzz WHAP!!! (sound of your wife hitting you in the head)
Sounds like your car is coming together. I think all of us are following the same idea; every 40 years clean the mechanical parts and upgrade as needed. BTW congrats on being asked to have your car shown. Hope you can get the interior done in time. If you can't do it yourself and the painter really wants to have the car in the show, ask him to kick in to help finish it in time..after all he's in it for the free press it's going to get...

Allan R

Dude, you also need to work on your terminology.
Boinger?? no not a spring. As used in life - a rock group; as in "Billy and the Boingers".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgQng...eature=related


I'm so embarrassed. I have this cut

Lady72nRob71

Well if your experience found it to work well, I think i will get it. A little pricy, but after 3 alignments, its paid for and should last a long time.

I have never ordered from Summit - do they have free shipping or other good deals periodically?

I'll say...
If he knew what I looked like, he would have been in for quite a nightmare...
Of course it IS almost Halloween!


Yep, it's a spring. Ever dropped a spring? It goes "boing"...

ah64pilot

Summit is great about shipping. They have a $9.95 shipping and handling fee but it's for good reason. I ordered a throttle cable bracket from them Thursday at 6pm...it shipped that same night and will be here Monday. Not bad considering I didn't pay for any extra shipping (2nd day or overnight).

They will ship until 9pm of whatever time zone the warehouse the part comes from is in. And their customer service is exceptional.

Lady72nRob71

Okay, I found a place that has the same gauge at 138 shipped, so it is on order. Hopefully it will come through...

Lady72nRob71

I found a how to video and it looks easy to use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu5xEFdDr7M

However, HOW do you accurately turn the wheels 15* in each direction to measure the caster?

MDchanic

Nice tool.

It's a cheaper version of the old wheel alignment tools that the shops used to use before the newfangled laser jobs they've all got now. I used to use one at a friend's shop 25 years ago, but it had a toe attachment that involved tubes and mirrors, that I was never fully confident in. Not hard to use, and it looks like this one is well designed.


C'mon, Rob, you're an engineer (aren't you?). You can figure out a hundred ways to do that!
The "correct" way is to use those fancy alignment plates that allow the tires to slide all over the place, and read out turn angles.
A perfectly fine way would be to determine the pivot axis of each wheel (line between the two ball joints to a spot on the floor), then use a protractor to measure 15° either way.
If you measure the distance between pivots in your car, and determine where you want the car to be when you work on it, you can make marks where the car will be sitting, then draw lines straight ahead to line the car up with as you pull in, so that you sit the car right on the spots.
Then, after yours is done, you can charge all the A-body owners in the neighborhood to do theirs as well, and make back your money .

- Eric

Lady72nRob71

Back on Saturday, I got Lady up on ramps to torque her LCA bolts. After then I greased all of her 11 ball joints. This took 1.5 of those small grease gun cartridges.



One thing I noticed was a small oil weep from the rear main seal. Looks like the previous job was shoddy or just not done!

Anyway, this can be dealt with easily by use of a drip pan or PIG mat.


So here it is, all assembled and ready for alignment!







And of course the engine bay!



So this finally wraps this thread up officially - the majority is over. However, there will still be a few improvements here and there.

The cruise regulator will be rebuilt this winter and the brakes still need a rebleed.
The front clip and A/C finalization will come late winter early spring 2012.

Hopefully this weekend I can get her aligned and I can report back the drive results next week!




Geez - they did not say THAT in the de-structions! They said you can quickly check your car at the track or anywhere.
Now I got to get a stinkin' pro-tractor. I do know a guy with a Farm-all; that should be professional enough...

MDchanic

Lookin' good, Rob!

You are one CRAZY ****!

You should be proud (but don't get cocky).

- Eric

RAMBOW

FWIW, I did my car's alignment last year borrowing a friends fast trax. I've got 4-5k miles on it since then. Tires still look great. I'll be buying my own digital one next time I have to do an alignment. I won't go to a shop again.

For the caster finding the 15degress- I used a friends lazer level, drew a line on the ground parralell to the car. wiht the long straight line its easy to tell when its really truely paralell with the car. Then turned the wheel until the "flat" on the end of the fastrax guage was even with the lazer line- Bingo, 15 degrees.

Setting the toe in was way harder than setting the caster/camber. Probably didn't help that i started turning one of the clamps the wrong way... LOL.

Jamesbo

Looks great Rob,

Is the drivers side front wheel damaged? It looks like alot of weight attached to balance it.