11971four4two

still wish I had not run out of black paint

Allan R

Any chance of getting the whole thing in the pic? I'm thinking of trying to make one but I need a good idea of what the whole thing looks like. This would be a great winter project.

11971four4two

The car is back in storage allan. I will have to try again next time I have it out.

Allan R

After a few delays I was able to get back into the garage and work on the Cutlass. First thing I did was use that new jack and boost the car another 3 1/2" to give more working room underneath. Sure wish I'd had that jack last year. ALMOST as good as having a lift. You can see the jack stand cradles are up, and I've also got blocks of 2X6 to distribute the load and also keep the bottom of the frame from getting all scratched up. All told, I've got about 23" of clearance to the lower rocker.



Now for the fun stuff. First thing I did was start undoing all the vent hoses from the vent lines. Found this to be awkward until I took out the 2 screws (1/2") that hold the fuel lines from the cannister to the tank. The spring clips were in amazingly good condition. They appear to be color coded according to diameter. The decision was to move the spring clips up off the hose and then use vice grips to wiggle the rubber loose from the lines. I was surprised how easy they came off. No worries about fuel spilling out the vent lines, especially with an almost empty tank. You just know that these lines are going to clean up to like new.



Sorry for the blur on this pic, but you get the idea.


The outer vent hoses are coded with yellow clamps. I'm guessing it is the 1/4" lines. The middle vent was black so it should be 5/16".

Intragration

You're going to reuse the lines? They can also rust from the inside out... It seems like a lot of work to clean them up. I've always had bad lines, so I've never tried to rescue them, just put on new ones.

Allan R

The last hose and line that needed to come out was the one from the sender to the fuel pump. I remember a few guys saying to wear an umbrella and just cut the line. Decided there had to be a better way.

So here's my approach. Move the spring clamps out of the way. Put a small vice grip onto the fuel hose and wiggle off the connection to the tank. Have a container ready to catch the gas. Only a few drops from the hose at this point. Then, with the container under the hose, remove the vice grip and let the fuel flow out. I got about 1/2 cup of gas. Reconnect the hose to the tank in preparation for removal.



Now I put a piece of 3/4" OSB under the gas tank and brought the jack lift to bear on it. Once the tank is fully supported it was on to the mounting bolts. The long ones (that gave Tony such a headache) have a welded nut on the C clip to make them easier to remove. HA HA HA. The very first time I put my impact wrench to it, the weld on the nut broke and the whole bolt just spun. So I sprayed the threads with penetrating oil, grabbed a 9/16" and held the nut while the impact took that sucker off there in 2 seconds. Repeat the process for the other side - bazinga - it broke the nut there too. Oh well at least it was consistent.



So now the tank is fully supported by just the jack. I've never dropped a tank before. It seemed light enough but I decided to get Graeme to help me.


Lowering the jack a bit at a time, the tank 'caught' on the frame of the car and hung up while the jack continued to lower. With both of us holding the tank it was plain that it was darn near empty. So I moved the jack out of the way and we lowered it and pulled it forward to clear the filler neck. Shazam! There's the tank = out on the garage floor.

Allan R

Yes, these lines are in really good condition. If I screw up when I'm cleaning them new ones are a phone call away to In Line Tube. I don't think these will be that bad to clean. Stay tuned for when I do that. I have a 'plan'.

ah64pilot

It always starts with a plan...rarely does it ever go that way. Good luck! Remember, some of that corrosion is preventing further corrosion or something like that...maybe not, but it sounds good

Allan R

I noticed that the new GM34R tank looks very very very close to the original, but is not quite. Minor little differences here and there. One of the things I noted on the OEM is the folds on the corners are vertical. The Spectra tank is about 60°. I'll worry about that when I get to it. The only concern is whether the fold will come near the exhaust when the new tank goes in.

The fuel sender wire was removed quite easily and the contact was in amazing shape. Looked like brand new.

I remember that Brian advised keeping the OEM locking ring. So the next order of business was to remove it and the sender. It was a little rusty, but with gentle taps from a hammer and screwdriver, it came loose really quick. I compared it to the new locker in the plastic bag and it looks close but not exactly the same. We'll see how things go when the new sending unit arrives.

the locking ring rubber O ring is like new, but I'm not going to re-use it.


other side


With the locking ring off, I gently removed the sender. Wow! Like new inside! I think I damaged the filter when I was siphoning gas - there's a big tear in the mesh.


Slipped back under the car and took a pic of the exposed bottom of the trunk. A little surface rust there that will clean up fairly easily. There are NO perforations or pitting!


The bolts and tank straps will be re-used. They will be restored to original color and cleared. These are galvanized steel and are fairly thick! The threads on the bolts look really good. I think the shot of penetrating oil on them when I used the impact helped keep them from deforming the threads.

Allan R

There was about a quart of gas left in the tank, so I drained it out the corner vent hole. Didn't want that smelly tank in the garage overnight with dangerous gas fumes. So I took it out behind the shed and propped it up to evaporate any residual gas. When I looked into the tank it was very clean and shiny. No evidence of garbage, sludge or anything.

Looks like a lot of the gas leakage MAY have been caused simply by worn out rubber hoses?


The hoses were somewhat stiff but still pliable. I don't know if that means anything. I kept them solely for the sake of measuring the replacement lengths correctly. These hoses are available from ILT for some $$$ but I have all the hose I need hanging in the garage. 1/4" 5/16" and 3/8". Don't have to pay shipping either!!

After cleaning up a bit, I got out the replacement dust caps I bought on ebay. They were supposed to fit this car. Not the same heavy quality and the OD is slightly off.


After 30 minutes of 'massaging' the outer rim of the new dust covers, they finally decided to go on. I know they look different than OEM, but they fit properly. I was having some problems with the OEM's wanting to pop off when re-installing them

Which do you like better? This >>>


or this >>>>


I'm keeping the OEM's because, well, they are OEM and I can always put them back on it needed.

Tomorrow is supposed to have a 70% chance of rain. So that means there will be plenty of time to work at getting some of these pieces cleaned up.

Allan R

LOL! I understand. My plan will evolve as it needs to. How's that? Truth be told, I'm really surprised at how well the bottom components of this car have been preserved. Don't forget it had major body work done in 1986 and has been stored inside ever since then. It has never driven in snow for the past 26 years and has only been in 2 rainstorms. 1 when it was being driven back from Grande Prairie where the body shop was. 1 time while I was picking my son up from school. We got lots of thumbs up and appreciative nods. Graeme is like you though - he's really long in the leg and body. Stands almost 6'4" but I'm not close to that. So the seat isn't all the great for him to sit in. His head usually hits the head liner.

Lets see how much corrosion is on those lines. I'll play it by sight. If it looks iffy? They WILL be replaced. If they are good they will get re-used. My focus is on the safety, but I'm not going to trash good parts either.

Intragration

Everything looks really clean, that's good news during a MAW project.

sammy

Good stuff Allan! I am thoroughly impressed that a man can do this in a suburban garage!. What, no build sheet!
I am with the others, all fuel and brake lines I always replace- MTC
Like orig dust caps better....
Great detail Allan, as usual, keep er going

Ted

Eddie Hansen

Great job Allan I had a question on the gas tank was there a kind of tar mat that goes on top of the tank? Mine had that but I am looking to replace it . I assume it,s function is to reduce chance of sparks if the tank should get jostled by an impact or off roaring well impact anyway lol . I was very impressed with the height your jack lifted the car up excellent.

I also prefer the OEM cap lol

tru-blue 442

Looking good Allan.
If you don't mind, could you
send some of that rain down Texas way?

oldcutlass

Shiney stuff makes the car go faster. So did you narrow the leak down, was it a hose?

oldsguybry

Wow Allen , your car is in really great shape ! I never really got a chance to see it up close . The paint looks like new .... Good job on the tank repair , I will use this as a guide if I ever get to that someday . By looking at the detailed work you are doing , it seems you have more patients then me lol .

oldsguybry

You can have our storms , they are destroying my tomatoe plants !

oldsguybry

Is that how it works ? I'm going to chrome my whole car then

ah64pilot

Allan, I wish you lived closer...not only would I give you a hand but I'd take your old gas tank off of you. I think it's still good...you can see where the fuel was leaking out of that vent tube on the upper passenger side. At least it appears to be from there.

You're looking good though, can't wait to see the finished product

Allan R

I knew there wouldn't be a build sheet there. The tank leaked really bad back in 84? and I had to have it towed to a shop for repair. There's a huge a@@ patch on the bottom. I'll get a pic and show you

That pad was discontinued for 71/72 cars IIRC. If you're looking for a pad? Contact Patton Glade. He sells those for a decent price. Here's a link: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tion-item.html

I don't mind. It's in the mail. If it doesn't arrive within the next 5-7 days, USPS lost it somewhere

I suspect it may have been a hose, but I didn't do any testing. For all I know it could be a seam letting go too. Just looking at the tank suggests that most of the gas was coming from the center vent line. Not sure why because I don't usually keep it with a full tank and don't do a lot of sudden braking. When I took the hose off, it was sealed on there pretty good.

LOL Bryan. You plug em I fix em?? I think you meant patience, I try to take time to understand what I'm doing if that's what you mean. But don't think for a second I haven't learned some colorful language working on other parts of this car.

Like I said ^^ I don't really know. You can have the tank if you want it. Just that shipping is a beatch. Courier prolly won't take it unless I get it steamed to get rid of the fumes. I doubt the fuel hoses were changed when the tank was fixed in 84 so those are prolly original hoses. It's going to be a whole lot easier to change the ones up by the cannister with the tank out though.

ah64pilot

Curse you Allan! Look what you got me into:



You and your durned 'shiny' dust cap...now I've got to detail everything up front before I can put the new springs in. Cheese and Rice!

oldsguybry

Yea , lately I don't have time to study anything , I just jump in feet first , but I will do things right down the road when I get some extra money , and a garage someone will borrow me for an eternity .

joesw31

Looks great!

oldcutlass

Stop it, I'm getting ready to tear my front end apart this weekend. <SIGH> I need a MAW hat!

ah64pilot

Haha! Go check out my thread "Cheese & Rice..." in the aftermarket suspension category...put your helmet on first!

Allan, where'd you get your dust caps? I need new ones too

Intragration

I'm also going to be doing the front suspension, replacing my axle too. I can't even begin to imagine the MAW hell I'm going to be in. (component stripping and restoration, brakes, brake lines, fuel lines, undercarriage cleanup and undercoating, wheel wells, blah blah blah) I wish I didn't care so much. Much as I'm looking forward to ditching the 2.41s, I may just wait until winter, so I can at least have some hope of being done by spring...

Allan R

Well I was wondering if you were going to get off you duff this morning and get out to the garage. You made good time. Helps a lot having the car up that high when you pull the springs doesn't it. You can really get some extension on the front LCA. Looks like you're up around 25 inches at the rocker. Your choice Steve. No one is going to be upset if you just put it all back together with new springs. Only thing is it will look out of place with the new springs and other old hardware. No MAW helmet needed. Just nose to the grindstone and git r done.

Yes, but since it's not a restoration it will go faster, right?

LOL sure you do.... If you really want them though, I bought them on ebay for 20.00

The front end is a fun challenge. Took me around 2 1/2 months to do mine. I don't like working on the car in the winter because ours are pretty cold and I don't have a heated garage. The component parts aren't hard. Rob Young (Rob71nLady72) put together a parts list when he did his. My only suggestion is if you're going to do some of it - do all of it. Then you don't have to go back and tear stuff you just replaced apart again.

ah64pilot

I'll second that...don't pull a pilot and do it in 2011 and pull it all back apart for some springs and cleaning in 2012. To think, I let $236 worth of springs and shocks hold me up for a year and repeat the work

Allan R

Couldn't get to the Cutlass till this afternoon. But once I started rolling it was nose to the grindstone and just focus on what needs doing.

First thing I did was get the tail light connectors apart and popped the rubber trunk plugs so I can work on them apart from the car.

Next the fuel sender wire was looking kind of stupid just hanging from the back frame. So I popped the anchor clip loose and it was free. I wasn't that impressed with the look of the wire - it's supposed to be tan colored but it was covered with black undercoating just about everywhere. So out came the home handy man's not so secret clean up weapon. You know what it is so I don't have to say it right? Anyway I sprayed some onto the wire and let it soak for 5 minutes then used some very fine steel wool to wipe off the undercoating.... Here's what it looked like after a light first clean (still lots of undercoat on it)


Took the better part of 35 minutes to finally get it cleaned. Then I took some electrical contact cleaner and sprayed down the fuel tank sender end and the spade connector on the other end. This is the finished wire


I found the vent line that we were discussing about being the leak culprit. I think it was. When I squeezed the hose around the end I found this, which doesn't show when the line is in normal position.


Now it's time to get those fuel lines off from under the car. I decided to use my Olfa knife and slit the ends up by the cannister. Easy as pie, they came off really easy. They were a little cruddy looking but mostly from undercoating. Some of the lines had light surface rust. They were very solid = just needed cleaning. The hoses were fairly brittle and split open very easily. BTW that white plastic thing they are on is a sheet of bus advertising I snarfed from work. It 3' X 7' and makes sliding under the car really easy. Almost as good as curling or hockey.


Without the hoses attached, this is the setup for the venting canister. This is exactly the condition it is in - I didn't clean anything prior to this shot.

Allan R

I carefully examined the fuel vent lines to see if there was any metal degradation or compromise to their integrity. Aside from a heavy coating of black unders pray and light surface rust on the upper sides they were VERY solid.

Now came the painstaking job of cleaning them up. I didn't want to use anything really abrasive on them so I elected to use my wire wheel/drill. It took a Loooonnng time to clean them because I didn't want them damaged. I could easily take them to a local shop and have new ones made for about the same cost as buying from the US, but it turned out not to be necessary.

After several hours (don't want to use too much pressure when wire wheeling) the lines were looking 'sort of' like new. Then I took some 600 wet/dry paper and smoothed out the finish a bit. They looked great. I left the hose on the end of the line for now to be a holding point during the work


Now that would be ok for most people, but I guess I've been bitten by the desire to go the extra step every time I can. It's been a life long commitment, so why stop now? I decided that since I had a can of silver caliper paint sitting in the cupboard doing nothing.... and this is how they ended up.


And the other side. I was impressed - these looked like NEW!


Ok so now I know I will be putting in new hoses, the lines are all looking good...Hang on a second!! The hoses are going to need CLAMPS!! Well I had taken 6 clamps off the vent lines. Originally they were yellow, but now they were black and ugly. I know they were originally yellow because when I slid them off the line, most of the yellow paint stayed on the hoses. Well they also went under the wire wheel to get cleaned up. With a fresh coat of yellow paint they will look great to anyone I run over . The paint is still a bit tacky in this pic, but they will dry down nice and solid. I know I can buy new ones, but these are still in great shape. Is this the point of being **** about stuff? If it is, wait for the next post.

oldsguybry

Mannn , looking real good !

Allan R

The gas tank straps have seen better days. They are anodized steel and are actually fairly heavy gauge metal. I think the use of galvanized parts was vastly under utilized. They don't rust like other stuff (at least not very fast anyway)

The tank side had a build up of crud that you'd expect from years of use. But because the straps are tight to the tank it's not really that bad


The lower side of the tank straps had that darned black goop all over it.


More wire wheeling to clean those suckers. Took quite a while. I found that both of the straps have a circle with an M stamped in it on the tank side. When I had finished cleaning the straps I was getting a little on the tired side and since I wasn't wearing my respirator mask I was breathing in a lot of dust and small airborne junk coming off the strap. I was going to leave the straps with a natural finish, but it didn't look that great so I painted it cast. I seem to like that color a lot. Not really happy with the results, but they look like this. I might lightly sand them down again tomorrow to get a more perfect finish.


Now, like I was saying before about '****'. Here's what the 2 bolts holding the tank up looked like.


No way I was re-installing those like that. Yup more clean up. Prolly around 10 minutes per bolt. Then I wrapped the threads, shot the head with cast. When it was dry I put some anti seize on the threads. I tested them in the c clips and they turn like a dream. Here's how they turned out.

Intragration

Absolutely, I plan to do it right the first time. Looking good there yourself. I also like the cast finish a lot. I came up with a trick for refinishing hardware. I put bolts into a cordless drill and whizz them on a wire wheel. They look shiny and new. Not like the original phosphate or whatever they would have had, but they do look nice. Then hit them with some clear so they won't corrode. Just have to be careful when installing them. Don't have a very good picture, but here are a couple.

Allan R

Great tip. I just hold the bolt with the drill/wire wheel clamped in a vise. Got to use leather gloves and eye protection to stay safe though. I thought about doing the clear coat, but for now I'll just leave well enough alone.

I had thought about putting one of Pattons tank insulators in, but the car never came with one.

I'm also pretty lucky there's very minimal rust to deal with. Still everything takes a lot of time to get the little details that no one else will see done the way they should be. Love to see your progress when you start your rebuild.

69442C

Allan,
Looking great so far. If you don't mind a few detailing pointers, let me offer a few.

When you clean up bare metal, like the fuel lines, just spray them with satin clear. Eastwood also makes a Nylac clear for bare metal that also works well.

If you want to get close to the original black color for bolts, use either Krylon Rust Tough Semi Flat Enamel or use the same in Flat Black and spray a coat of satin clear over it. Just make sure your clear is enamel and not lacquer. Can't put lacquer over enamel, but you can put enamel over any lacquers. As an FYI, the Semi Flat black is as close to the original semi gloss black that I've come across in a shaker can.

If your yellow fuel line clamps are glossy looking, spray them with satin clear. GM rarely had glossy parts under the car.

For you fuel tank straps, there is a Hammertone Silver color in spray cans that may get close to the look of the galvanized finish they originally had. Satin Clear again for the final coat. Seeing a theme here?

I happen to have a set of new reproduction grease caps that I bought from Year One years ago, probably during a brain fart moment as I had a new set already for the project at that time. If you want them, I'll offer the pair to you for $15 plus the postage to you. YO now sells these for $15 ea. Part number from YO is 605N. If you don't want them, maybe Steve will since he was asking.

The new lock ring for the tank I bought was just slightly smaller in diameter than the original. When installing it, I could get the ring under 2 of the tabs but not the third. Played with it for 10 minutes before I grabbed the original and tried it and had it on in 10 seconds. Not sure if you will experience the same thing but that was my reason for suggesting holding onto the original until you are at the point of assembly.

Keep the pictures coming!

Brian

oldcutlass

Allan looking good! The clock is ticking, and you seem to be ahead of schedule.

I agree with 69442C, the available clears, and paints in rattle cans today makes it really easy to almost match any underhood, interior, emblem, etc... colors and texture.

Lady72nRob71

Looking good Allan! This seems to go much faster than the front end, don't it!
When I want paint stripped off of numerous small irregular parts, I soak them in the can of carb cleaner overnight. The paint either dissolves or comes off in big pieces with just a toothbrush. I then wash them with simple green in a sealed jar, just shake well! I let them dry in the toaster oven on low to prevent flash rusting, and they are ready for paint when cool. If they are very smooth I soak them in metal-ready to etch them.
The flat black coating on some bolts can also be replicated by Rustoleum high-temp flat black, like for use on grills.

Allan R

Are you kidding? Anyone with your level of expertise and quality control can give me advice all day long and all night Sunday! I'm never too proud to redo something to make it right. (I've still got some issues to go back to on the front end, because I'm just not happy with some particular results) If Steve reads this he will prolly wish he could reach out and smack me across the top of the head. Not sure if I can find all the paints, but I'll try. The yellow clamps were slightly tacky when I took that pic. This morning they are dry and have a nice semi gloss/flat look. Today I'll get the locking ring cleaned up - haven't yet opened the new one's package to really compare because I'm also waiting for my new sending unit. I'll check and see if I can find those clears and black up here . PM coming your way re: dust caps.

BTW, I noticed the bolts for the tank straps have a very unique shoulder/tap! First time I've seen that on this car.

Shhhh! You'll jinx me. Still waiting for my shipments from ILT and Fusicks. Cross border shipping is notoriously slow

Spoken like a single guy! You know what would happen if I did that here?? I have a quart of metal ready in the garage. Some of the bolts and clips I can buy locally new with the phosphate coating, so that might save some time.

Intragration

Ha ha Krylon, I use that stuff too. The guy who turned me on to it said it's easy to work with, and color matching in the future is no problem, just go to the hardware store and pick up more. He was right. Here's a previous non-Olds project I did.