JMJ-RIP

Funny, mine has that.

Congrats on the find and followup purchase.

Jon

RocketDevo

Nice find, its interesting that you mention there are signs of a voltage regulator. I picked up a 1970 W30 in April and it has holes where the regulator would have been. All 442's were internally regulated. AS far as your alternator is concerned it should be a 1100880 and your master cylinder if original would have "EB" stamped on it where the grounded patch is at the front. The rad if it is still original to the car and has the tag still on it would be "ED" if its a 4 core and if a 3 core should be "FB". hope this helps you out. Thanks

Funkwagon455

It is a nice, well documented car with the most important options present. The color combo is very nice and clean with no vynl roof. All of the pertinent pieces are there for a purists' restoration. It starts with no coaxing and a bump of the starter, no obvious noises at idle. The red inners are uncut and in remarkably good original condition, no chalking, no alarms or Accel super coils mounted. The interior is in very good condition with only the package tray cut for some 6x9's and kick panels for 5" speakers. The biggest expense and challenge would be the paint and body. The early Chicago life was not gentle to it, and I think the residual had a continued effect even once it had been transplanted. Certainly not ruined, just not what you might expect from a north Texas car. The folks that know me will know that I am not bashing, but only speaking frankly by saying that it is not a 10k paint by Joe's standards. I believe that you would have substantially more invested for a concourse quality job on that car. (Assuming that you do not do it yourself). It was really nice of Joe to invite us to see the latest, and visit with familiar faces as well as meet some new friends. He is a good host, and I'd recommend others to take advantage of his hospitality given the opportunity. If he decides to take on the project, it will undoubtedly be a VERY nice car when done!!!. Thanks Joe, and keep us updated on your great find

stevengerard

Again there you guys go rubbing it in. If that image is of that car then its a keeper. I know it is not a closeup - but up here in Chicago we call that near mint - you guys are spoiled.

dc2x4drvr

Joe, I'm thinking a budget of 15k for body and paint. I love the color, and the interior and underhood are close to "survivor original" probably going to be a tough decision to do a body off resto, or fix up and sell.
Thanks for the invite..see you at the NTOC Zone show in April.

costpenn

Heath and Lance, thanks again for coming over. Two items:

What I was thinking was 10k for paint and body with me furnishing some decent fenders and doors along with quarter patch panels. Does it still sound too low? I'll bring the car completely stripped and do the frame resto myself.

Heath, you had me worried. I went in the garage right now - there are no speakers in the kick panels.

Joe

costpenn

Hello. The master cylinder has the EB (yay), but my radiator, which is a 4 row says EC. Anyone know what the EC is for?

orange442

EC would be correct for a 4 core 4 speed. My W-31 has its original EC radiator with original tag.

gearheads78

If you do build the car don't replace any sheet metal. Have a good metal man fix the little bit of rust and keep the original 1/4's attached.

Funkwagon455

Sorry Joe, That must have been another car I had looked at recently.

Funkwagon455

I would have thought that a 4 speed radiator would not have provisions for a trans cooler...... I will have to see what the code on mine is. With regard to the panel repair, I agree with Richard with the idea of minimal replacement of metal. I would be a whole lot less concerned with what you can see versus what lies beneath. I think the most thorough way to remove the corossion on the underside would be to separate the frame and get it under control before it does any more erosion. I would also be concerned with the condition of the cowl area once the fenders are off. If indeed all you have to deal with is a door, small quater patches, fender repair and cleaning/painting the underside, then Lance's predictions may be close. Sometimes though when you start to dig a hole, you'll find yourself digging a much larger hole that you had anticipated! If you happen to need a good sheet metal fabricator/welder, I have a very good source.

dc2x4drvr

x2

Alex72cutty

Nice find Joe!!!! I would have loved to see it in person but just saw that this post. I would hold onto it if it was me.. Knowing the history and looking at the car, how could you get rid of it...

507OLDS

If you are going to restore it,a car like that has to be done all the way,best as possible. You could put it up for sale,just as it sits,and see if you get a buyer.Otherwise,take your time & restore it.
It soulds a lot like the Astro blue 4-spd in my building,as far as the body goes.It is a 12A car,but my Agean Aqua car is 1D,like yours.
Does your car have the intake that says OLDSMOBILE W455 or OLDS W455?
The correct alternator should be 1100890 55A. I had one dated December 29th,which would be a great fit for that.I'll see if I still have it.
I am going to guess that the carb is dated 3329,and the distributor is dated 9L19.I think the 0A8 would to late to make it to production for a late-January car,but I could be wrong.Are your F-heads dated 295 or 336?Block date?
This is all cool stuff.

costpenn

Heath, I'm with you. I found this earlier thread https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ification.html that makes more sense - I think the ED is correct for W30 auto with HD/AC cooling. I think the MT radiator would not have the tranny cooler in it, and mine does. I will take a pic of that tag tonight and post it - there's other smaller characters on it.

As far as the rust thing, after what I went through on the convertible, I am trying to figure out a more cost effective way to do this car. I spent way more money fixing fenders & doors than if I had bought some good clean relatively rust free OE fenders and doors (even at today's prices) . Is it imperative for a concours type resto that the exact original sheet metal for that car be reused?

costpenn

Brian, good to hear from you.

The intake is the OLDSMOBILE W455, and the carb is 3329. and I will check the head date code along with the block date (where is it?) tonight and let you know.

Please let me know if you have that alternator - consider it sold.

70Post

That is ONE HECK OF A FIND Joe!

My favorite Olds color as well....love the Astro Blue exteriors.

As far as sheetmetal...it all depends on where the damaged stuff is and how sure you want to be that all the damaged material is replaced. Peel the original QP's off it and repair THOSE if possible. Gets you easier access to any damage beyond the QP as well (wheelhouses for example).

Sorry I don't live closer....I would have been there in a minute for the pizza/beer unveiling event!

Look forward to seeing the car one day.

507OLDS

The block date is right next to the distributor hole.One larger number,and two or three smaller numbers. The larger number should be a 3 or 4. The smaller numbers are the Julian date.
In another topic,I mentioned my 100% original 70 Cutlass 4-spd.,with the factory plugs in the cooler ports of the radiator,so the 4-spd cars don't necessarily have a radiator with no cooler ports. My original 71 W30 4-spd also has the original Harrison 4-row,with the plugs. It could also be the situation where the workers used what was available.

orange442

This thread has a pic of my radiator tag and I have another one of the radiators exactly the same for my 70 442 4 speed:

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-70-442-a.html

Here is a pic of my 'Oldsmobile Production Code "B" 1970 Model' build sheet for my W-31. Notice the "EC" code in the 7th box line D bottom line.

stevengerard

yikes, and the card states SZ for the rear end!
do you have the Code A card - does that show the axle code?

orange442

Yep, SZ code W-27 3.91 gear. The axle is no longer in the car because the aluminum housing was cracked and leaking so it was replaced under warranty with a cast iron center 3.91 posi.

Steven, you got the only "A" card I ever had with the 70 SX. I do remember it did not have anywhere near the info on it that the "B" sheet has.

Found a pic of the "A" sheet but kinda blurry. Also "B" sheet from the SX.

costpenn

Hello Joe,

Thanks for the confirmation on the radiator. It is without a doubt a EC code, and it has a pretty large "C" and "I" embossed on the RH tank with a smaller "K" between them. I guess I need to get a 70 assembly manual post haste. Don't know if I will make it to any shows this or next year in Houston but can always find a reason to go see clients down there and tour your museum at the same time. The discussion on the W27 bolts is fascinating!

costpenn

Well let me know any time you are in the area and we'll get a CO get together arranged. The Astro Blue is pretty nice - especially where you can see the original color.

I think the RH quarter could possibly be fixed, but the LH is pretty far gone. I will give it a shot. I'm going to see Lance's guy about the paint job, and have also know a guy up in Witchita Falls that does unbelievable work - same level as Frank Waggoner, but maybe a little more reasonable on price.

costpenn

The tag on mine is exactly the same as yours except your top row of smaller letters is IF and mine is IA

RocketDevo

Hey Costpenn, sorry about late back to this thread. I see you have the "EC" Rad tag. This is the top rad offered in 1970, and would come on all 3:91 gear cars. I do not believe they used it on any other application, but I am not 100% sure. The "CI" witch matches the rad tag is the correct tank for the passenger side and the "IF" is the standard tank for all 4 cores on the driver side. I believe early models would not have trans line outlets but GM did away with this early as it was easier to just used plugs. Very rare to see correct rads in 1970 that do not have them at all. Im not sure if I missed what rear end ratio you had in the car, but if thet is the correct rad I would tend to think your car originally came with 3:91 gears. Thanks

RocketDevo

I forgot to mention that the "K" between the "C" and "I" is the month that the rad was made. In one of the photos of the rad tag posted you will notice the "EC" raised lettering is painted, which is also correct. Hope this helps. Thanks.

507OLDS

My 70 Cutlass 4-spd car,all original,with the plugs in the radiator,was built in September/69,so it was an early one.Not saying they didn't have a radiator,without the ports,in 1970,but I have never seen one on any of the cars that I have owned or seen.His car being an automatic,would have the ports anyway,for the TH400 lines.

costpenn

Thanks RocketDevo. I just pulled the radiator out yesterday. It still had those kind of flat weatherstripping pieces stuck onto the top and bottom edges of the radiator core. I was able to CAREFULLY get them off intact to see about cleaning and reinstalling them. I'm sure the aftermarket repro ones are a little different. I'm think this is the original radiator to the car, it is really nasty inside but is still not leaking - probably due to all the white scale nodules clinging to everything.


So is a "K" code mean that it was made in November? Works out for me since the car was assembled last week in Jan 1970.


My differential is the SF 3.23 limited slip unit - and believe me, it LOOKS original to the car!! (lots of surface rust, all bolts facing the right direction, etc...)

orange442

You are talking about the codes on my W-31 rad tag with the CI and IF codes which is a 3.91 car. Costpenns is IA and CI and is a 3.23 A/C auto car.

costpenn

A few updates for those who are following this saga:

1) Started disassembly last night. So far, the only casualty is that I was not able to get the bumper J hook rubber pad off without breaking off the mounting nipples.

2) Washer hoses are amazingly supple - they will clean up perfectly with a good scrubbing.

3) Was able to get the TCS switch and the idle dashpot off without breaking anything.

4) I have undoubtedly the worst, nasty original EB code master cylinder in existence. I'm going to send it to White Post along with the calipers and wheel cylinders and the strange disc brake stubby valve thing to get them all rebuilt. The calipers have Delco Moraine on them and the wheel cylinders are leaking like they are from 1970 so I'm pretty sure they are also original to the car.

5) Wiper motor also has never been off the car. It has some kind of undercoating sprayed on the lower front of the motor partially obscuring the foil tag. Washer pump is in excellent condition. Just a good cleaning and the o ring kit should be all I need for it. I'm going to send the motor to that guy who specializes in rebuilding these - and send the carb and alternator off to Sparky's by next week.

6) The only obvious non stock things found on the motor so far are all belts, all coolant and some vacuum hoses, some radiator clamps, fan clutch, battery, positive battery cable, and alternator. And there is a weird 1/2 hole cut in the top of the OAI lid (the metal one that holds down the filter) and a notch on the lower lip where the OAI adaptor meets the air cleaner base. It has me and the CO guys who came by last week stumped as to what it was for. The A/C compressor looks original to me - anyway to verify this?


Does anyone know a person I can send the water pump off to for rebuilding?


Lastly, I'm really growing to like the Astro Blue color. It looks a lot better on the car than it does on a paint chip. I don't think I've seen a lot of Cutlasses in this color before.

ScottoW31

What a great car. Good luck with the rebuild! Keep the info and updates coming.

RocketDevo

Hey Costpenn, that is correct the "k" would be a November build date for your rad. I do not have the "ED" rad tag handy to check but it may use the same tank codes as the "EC" tag. When you have the tag you can determine the type of rad but without the tag and just the rad you cannot determine the type of tag the rad came with. Its interesting that Orange says your tanks are "CI" and "IA", "IA" is the universal 3 core and down Driver side tank code. GM put a different tag on every application, but the tanks are pretty universal. So just about every Harrison 3 core or less driver side in any division will have Either "IA" or be blank. I have aslo found that every 4 core driver side will be "IF" or blank. This is true for all models, full size or "A" body. The Passenger side Tank is the side that determines the application and really comes down to the size of the transmission cooler inside. I believe the number on the rad tag is what Harrison used to determine the size, as the letter code was the same for both Auto and 4 speed. I have a Chevy Rad with the tag code"SK" and the tanks are exactly the same as the 1970 olds 3 core auto rad, so again GM was not making specific tanks for each application just the tags were specific. Sorry about the long "windedness". Hey Brian, I have only seen one 1970 4 core rad with no openings for the trans lines, a fellow Classic olds member and friend has it. I will have to take a look at it closer and see what the Tank codes are, it came from a 70 W30. I do have one from a 66 or 67 442 with no openings, and it is original with the rad tag showing the application and the tanks matching the tag. I just think as a cost saving measure GM stop the practise of having both types and just used plugs. I have found a Place online that is in Seattle that rebuilds master cylinders. It is GOLDLINE BRAKES 1 877 347 2225. I have not used them yet but was going to send down a bunch and have them all done at once, been hoarding for years. Also while were at it, the Water pump if original should be 404847. Hope this is helping you out. Thanks

RocketDevo

Hey Costpenn, sorry I lost what you were interested in getting rebuilt. I have had my water pumps rebuilt by AUTOLINE in Canada. I do not know anyone in the States at this time.

507OLDS

Hite rebuilders,in Ohio,can rebuild the water pump.Should be 404847 with the large "X",and have a julian date on it too.

ScottoW31

Hite Parts Exchange (614.272.5115) did my waterpump. They did a great job and a quick turn around.

QMaster

Congratulations on a nice car - whatever you decide to do!

charlierogers

congrats on a great find. sounds like a lotta fun finding all the oem stuff still with the car. looking forward to following your build.
Charlie,,,

costpenn

Having lots of fun while documenting all those cool little factory stickers and markings that unrestored cars have. It is like being on an archeological dig - taking that LH door panel off and seeing what's inside for the first time in almost 44 years. Here's a few pics of that Olds marking on the evap case with some red paint dot below it, water barrier with the tape that held it in place (it turned to dust the minute it was touched) a tag on the LH door with LAN on it, and the original carpet tag. I am going to give it my all to save the carpet if I can. It fits so well.

tru-blue 442

What a score. That thing is cleeeen.

Aron Nance

Joe: You still working, at work????? LOL! Looks like a lot of night time/weekend time in the garage!!!!
Aron