70cutt

I suppose doing a build thread might keep me motivated to post new pictures with progress. I am no mechanic and I am not a body man so this is going to be a long restoration.

I have a 70 S with a 2barrel 350 and 350 transmission. I am working on getting the vehicle broken down so I can roll the frame out from under it. I am going to blast and paint the frame, then move on to the body work. And lastly deal with the motor. I have sentimental value with my car and it has alot of needed body work. But it will be worth it in the end.

I have a 70 S parts car which has AC that I would like to add into my car among other things.

Here are some initial pictures of what I have been able to accomplish. I am almost done with the dash. Just a couple of things like the heater cables, etc. are holding me up. Been all over the forums for information on removing the dash. I learned alot from 2blu442. His pictures are so helpful.

I am going for a stock look with upgrade to engine. Perhaps a 455 if the money is there. I want a nice looking car that I can take out and cruise in. But I dont have the ability or money to make it immaculate. Just nice and solid is my end goal, with no freaking rust...

This is my grandma's car, which was then my mothers first car, which was then handed down to me as a pretty big pile. It ran for a couple months for me until It started having some serious problems I couldn't fix. I have drug it around with me since it was given to me 11 years ago and I am excited to finally get cracking at it.

70cutt

Still need to finish taking out the steering column, heater box, and dash pad. Got frustrated with it so I started to work on some exterior trim and the front core support.

Also I did find an entire package of information tucked up on the inside of the dash on my parts car. It is the protect-o-plate pack with owners manual and a neat accessories brochure. The baby seats GM offered are a little scary looking... Anyone from, or around Roseburg Oregon that bought a 1970 cutlass S New?

droptopron

If you want to swap the AC I believe there are differences in the firewall. Once you get it taken apart you'll have to compare the two. maybe its something you can cut out of one car & weld onto the other?
Maybe others can opine what is involved in this.

70cutt

Definately would appreciate any help with adding AC. I thought this may be a possibility, and I figure cutting out and changing the firewall might have to happen. Not terrible but a PITA...

Allan R

Yes, John is always helpful and he has a lot of good pics. Have you got a 70 Cutlass Assembly manual? That has the info you're talking about. If you don't have one, it's available free from Wild About Cars website. Free to join, use and share. BTW the 70-72 Cutlass/VC dashes are all the same, so you can use any of them as a reference.

oldzzy

From your pics, it doesn't look like it's in to bad of shape. Looks like a twin to my car before i started my restoration. Good luck with the resto!

Allan R

drop,
I don't think there are any differences in the firewall at all. The front cowl and clip is interchangeable on all 70-72 Cutlass and VCs. Maybe you were suggesting that different areas of the firewall are used to mount the relays, vacuum, and evaporator assembly? That would be correct. The dash components (escutcheon plate, vacuum lines, vents and hoses, kick panels, dashpots, trims etc will all transfer from one car to the other without a lot of modification.

If you want a really good thread to walk you through the AC overhaul, check out the one Rob Young (Lady72nRob71) put together.

My442

A/C and non A/C firewalls are toatlly different on the passenger side.

Look at an assembly manual to see the differences.

RALLYE KID

Agree

Lady72nRob71

Looks to be a big project for you and a HUGE learning experience as you go. In the end, you will have become a mechanic and body man.
You WILL get frustrated a lot, when your experience lacks at something and you get stuck somewhere. Keep your cool, read the manuals, inquire on this site, and take a break from time to time.
Having the car in the family that long is special and the car is wortht he resto. The feeling of accomplishment will be priceless.

Yes. The firewall holes are stamped differently. A/C car has vertical hole, heat only has long horizontal hole.
Also the dash has to be cut for the 2 center vents.
Lots of other mods work is involved as well.

Best of luck to you!

Allan R

Rob, I'm not seeing the huge differences. Just different dimples are used for various mounting parts. In all honesty I can't see GM making the entire PS of the firewall completely different for AC cars. Even the AM identifies which dimples are used by AC and non AC and they are the same location in both pics.

I had once thought about putting a cherry AC (low mile donor in collision) and I did research the amount of work it would take. Thats why I didn't do it. I'm kicking myself now for not buying it at the time. You obviously know about the inside and outside work that needs conversion, but on the firewall, the only thing I could find that was major different was the evaporator hole stamping. The good part is that 70cutt has the perfect donor car to chop out the PS firewall he needs and weld into his car.

BTW 70cutt I hope you do the conversion. You will learn a lot about the car as you go. And Rob is an excellent resource BTW, he just restored his AC this summer.

Lady72nRob71

Yes, the evap / heater core hole is what I am talking about. It IS very possible to weld the horiz. hol closed with sheet metal and recut a vertical hole. It will be very time consuming but sure, it can be done. Easier if you are an experienced welder. Not just a "drill some new holes and bolt it up" job like I wished...

442_Mustang

Yes, the firewall is differentbetween an A/C car and non A/C. Also, the non A/C cars do have the little pull vents with ducting. I have 2 72 Cutlasses. One is an A/C and one not. There are a few other differences. There are even 2 different stainless trim panels that go on the bottom of the windshield. I think my black one has the VIN tag riveted from the bottom while the other one is from above the dash. I gotta get rolling on the other one but first I got a Nova itching for a 454 for the wife...

O's_Car

Your story sounds a lot like mine: same car, same skill level, similar goals, and sentimental value. Fortunately mine was in good shape when I started about a year and a half ago, so I didn't have to deal with rust or major body work. Good luck with your project and enjoy the experience!

If you're interested, here's a link to my thread:

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...n-project.html

70cutt

I have already read through your thread Oskar nice job. I had some time this weekend to look into the differences between the two cars. Not sure what I will ultimately do so far. I have the engine out of the donor car so I get a nice view of the engine side of the firewall. It doesnt tell me a lot. But if I have to I will cut the entire firewall and dash out of each and do a switch-o, change-o. The donor car has less cowl rust as it is. Might be totally covered with that chevelle windshield channel. The dash is almost flawless (small crack on the headlight bezel area, and the total AC dash. I will be reading over Rob Young's post many times then to know the system front to back.

On a side note, started clearing out a couple boxes of what i thought were parts from the donor cars back seat which ended up being a 3rd car's parts, trim, headlight bezels... I need to know the best(least damaging) way to pop the trunk on the donor car. I can't get into it with the key provided.

Allan - My donor car has that exterior window trim on it. Didn't you say you wanted pictures of it, or how it attached in there? Let me know and ill try and get out there before It really gets cold.

Thanks for the input on the AC, finding this forum is a blessing...

Allan R

Yes please. It's called B85 belt molding. I think it requires drilling holes in the top sash part of the door/quarter to fasten the substraight down but have never seen how it was actually done.

If you can take those pics, could you post them in a new thread and call it B85 Molding? Then it would be easy to find on searches as a thread title. Thanks so much.

70cutt

it has been a long time since an update but i am coming to a point where i am unsure and need to ask a questiion...

A ton of body work has been done since i started this car and have had to change my plan about 50 times. I ended up getting a 72 body that was in great shape and used it for the entire firewall and cowl. My question is this - Can i remove the cowl tag and replace with my original? the only reason would be to save as much of the old rust bucket as i can. Is there a legal issue with this? if so how do i properly change it?

tons to do but while im waiting for warm weather i figured i would see about getting an answer to this. thanks in advance.

ent72olds

If you were taking a tag off a cutlass, then replacing it with one from a 442, then it would be a problem....as far as what you plan to do I would say no! To be safe, document with pics....as long as you aren't trying to represent the car as something it isn't for financial gain, I for one have no problem.....

70cutt

that was my initial plan but someone at work acted like it was going to be a big issue. i am doing a cutlass S nothing more, may add the hood and spoiler and do a tribute or whatever you want to call it. but it wont be trying to pass it off as anything special. really just want to save as much as i can from my original car. even if i have had to frankenstein it.

My442

B85 moldings are held on by small screws that attach to the vetrical surface at the top of the door and quaterpanel.

The outside window sweeps attach to the B85 moldings.

Gee Allan, wrong again....

Allan R

Please go back and re-read that post (from 2011). I was simply asking the OP how it is held down or fastened and had a theory. It just made more sense that there would be a special B85 molding support that goes under the wide anodized aluminum so the metal is not in direct contact with the painted ledge. THAT's the part I was guessing had to be drilled and fastened. Again I said I don't see how that warrants a 'Gee, wrong again...' Anyway thanks for the info about the screws fastening the B85 to the vertical surfaces, but I had that already figured out.

BTW, what is 'vetrical' and 'quaterpanel'? Gee My442, 'wrong again' back at you

69442C

You can remove your cowl tag from your original cowl and install it back on your car with the replacement cowl installed. Sheetmetal is changed all the time and you are not trying to make the car something that it wasn't. The cowl tag contains information that is specific to your car not the cowl so make the change and your car will retain it's original cowl tag. To replace it, you can either drill out the original aluminum rivets or just push a screwdriver down through the center to break out the middle. Carefully collapse the rivet inward on itself and try to work it out. You can also try to reach under it and try hitting it upward a little too. New reproduction rivets are available from different sources and here is one I found on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHEVROLET-CHEVY-COWL-TRIM-TAG-RIVETS-WITH-INSTRUCTIONS-/310354003089?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessorie s&hash=item48428a4491&vxp=mtr

When you install the new rivet, you will need to flatten out the bottom a little to hold it in place. If you have a long reach panel clamp you can put a piece of metal on top of the rivet, and place the clamp on that metal and against the bottom of the rivet and crush it a little on the bottom side to lock it in place. Or, you can use a little epoxy around the rivet and just glue it (the rivets) in place. Once the rivets are installed, fill the center of the rivet with a little piece of ribbon caulk to make it look like the originals.

Brian

70cutt

Brian,

I couldnt ask for a better answer! I am winging this as I go and paying for what I cant do. This will be my first little project once I thaw it all out! Thanks again.

69442C

Glad to help. Keep the updates coming as you get things done.

Brian