I just wanted to replace the alternator and upgrade to an internally regulated one. Now look what happened. This is all your guys fault .

Updates will be few and far between, while money is always an issue, the most restrictive issue for me is time. But I will update this thread as I make progress.

Thanks,
Scott

 

Post some more photos of the progress as you go. I am also doing a 69 442.

Sean

 

Make SURE, you bag and tag with lots of information all of your fasteners. Take before pictures before you disassemble any assembly! You will forget which fasteners and where. Ask me how I know this.

You will do fine!
Tom
68 442
70 F85

 

The problem here is a lack of communication between your ears. For gods sake what were you doing inside the car during an alternator swap. You need one of Rob's MAW helmets.

 

Well it started out with just replacing/upgrading to an internally regulated alternator. While I was doing that I noticed that the wiring harness was a mess. MAW clean that up while I was at it.

I needed to get to the firewall junction block of the wiring harness to remove some wires and replace others, and it was buried under the power brake booster. MAW get it out of the way to make room and clean it up.

The speedometer wasn't working and some of the paperwork I got with the car said it had been disconnected. I found the transmission end disconnected and the speedo end attached. Couldn't get my hand up in there to remove the speedo end so I figured I'd drop the steering column to gain better access. The car had a Hurst shifter installed on the floor for the TH350, and I found a floor shifter steering column from 2blu442. MAW pull the steering column out.

Still couldn't reach the speedo cable and I wanted to convert the car to a 4 speed anyway. MAW pull the brake pedal assembly out.

When I was working on the wiring I was putting the starter back in and noticed some of the under coating flaking off, checking further I found that the front floor pans had rusted out from the inside out (someone left the pan drain plugs out). MAW pull up all the carpeting and determine the extent of the damage.

The PO had removed the back seat and replaced it with a shelf to carry a wheel chair. MAW pull that out while I'm in here.

So as you can see I've contracted a fatal case of the MAWs (I blame Mac and his 71, but you're all co-conspirators)

The plan was just to drive the car for awhile and then tear it down to parade rest and redo everything. MAW do it now.

Next MAW is to clean-up and organize the garage, free up my engine stand (anyone interested in a 1965 original four barrel 289 Ford?) then pull the engine and the trans.

Scott

 

Will do Sean, I've been following your build so your partly to blame for this .

Scott

 

Got the grill, bumper, radiator and the core support off today. I was pleasantly surprised on how easily things came apart, I was afraid after 40 years they were going to be less than cooperative. Additionally I found a lot of the air dam/seals still in place. The bumper looks good, one little wrinkle on the very bottom edge and some surface rust on the back side. The core support does have a rust through spot right below where the battery tray goes. Is there a patch panel available for this or am I going to have to fabricate a patch?

Plan is to pull the front fenders and rear bumper in the morning. (gets to hot for me about noon) Then the next time I have off work to pull the gas tank and the engine and transmission.

Scott

 

Scott

The problem with the core support rot is pretty common unfortunately. I had the same issue with mine and spent months looking for a replacement. I bought a donor section from another CO member and thought of cutting and welding it in but it proved to be outside my capabilities. I ended up finding a complete core support from a 69 Cutlass with the 3-core lower saddles (mine has the HD cooling 4-core). After a good blasting and powder coating it came out better than original. You can check it out in my thread.

Good luck.

Sean

 

That's what I figured, I found one on Craig's list about 3 hours away that supposedly has been cleaned up and painted with no rust. The guy wants $125.00 for it, is that outta line in your opinion?

Thanks,
Scott

 

Scott,

I paid $125 for mine and had to blast and powder coat which cost another $150 so I think you are in good shape.

Sean

 

I read your post explaining how easily one thing leads to another to my wife... she was sure I had written it!

I've got a '68 442 that was supposed to be a minor project that has now gone one step beyond reality... I sympathize with ya!

 

Sean,
I was looking at it again this morning and I think I can patch it with just a piece of flat sheet metal. It's gonna be where no one can see it so I'm more concerned with a good structural repair vice something that looks good. Got the front fenders off this morning (darn blind nuts on the bottom all broke, what a pita) and while the lower rear corner of the passenger side is rusted through, it looks like the inner brace is salvageable. Additionally while I plan to pull the body off and replace them, the forward body mounts don't look all that bad. Hopefully the rest are in as good a shape and the areas where they sit on the frame won't need any repairs.

Post,
I'm quickly coming to believe that if you paid less than $30,000.00 for one of these cars there is no such thing as a minor project when it comes to them. The harsh reality is that, when we were kids, these were just used cars 8-12 years old, now they're 40+ years old and are going to need a lot more work than they did back in the day. Luckily, the quality of materials used back then, in a lot of cases, makes them a lot more salvageable then the cars built today. Imagine the poor guy that tries to rebuild a 2010 Mustang 40+ year from now.

Scott

 

Well the whole front clip is off and today I got the rear bumper off. I paid for everything on the front end coming apart so easily. Took me about two hours just to remove the four bolts, and man am I going to pay for it tomorrow.

Looking ahead to replacing the body mounts, the CSM and AM show a couple of mounts that don't look like they have bolts running through them into the body. Am I missing something or are some of them just captured between the frame and the body?

Thanks,
Scott

 

Scott,

The body mounts do not all have bolts going through them. Some are just rubber disks between the frame and body. I would recommend taking a look at the Service Manual on Wild About Cars.

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/members/AardvarkPublisherAttachments/9990351101713/1969_OLDSMOBILE_Service_Manual_Section_2-3.pdf


This manual comes in handy when you start putting things back together and need some guidance.

Good luck
Sean

 

Sean,

Yeah I looked at the CSM (Chassis Service Manual) and the AM (Assembly Manual). OK, good so I wasn't missing something. Do you have a recommendation at to where to get the body mounts? So many different sources and types. I plan on replacing all the mounts and the hardware.

Thanks,
Scott

 

I bought the full set through SuperCarsUnlimited that included the hardware and even the core support mounts. I think it was $169.95

Sean

 

HAHAHAHAHA. Thanks, I've been to their site a couple of time but just now noticed they are only about a half hour's drive from my house.

Scott

 

Good luck, mine started with a low left tire!

 

These cars should come with a warning label. "Caution any work done to this vehicle could take most of your life and all of your money".

Scott

 

X2 Scott.....mine 68 442 started with "you can't save that"
Will be following along.......

 

Well the other day I was able to get the motor and transmission out and this morning I siphoned all the gas out of the tank (well as much as I could get).

Next step is to pull the gas tank out then we'll be ready for lift off. (body lift off actually) Should I pull the doors off before I lift the body off or leave them on? The plan is to get the body off the chassis and get the chassis in the garage for a complete tear down and re-build. Once that's done, the chassis will go back under the body and the whole thing will be trailered to the body shop.

Anyone want to take a stab at the torque converter? Does it look stock size? Couldn't find any info on the converter itself, just thought it was odd that it's purple.

Sorry updates are so slow, but I really only have one day a week I can dedicate to working on the car. The rest of the time it's twenty minutes here thirty minutes there. (That is if I get all my chores done )

Thanks,
Scott

 

No actual progress, I'm waiting until my new air compressor gets here before I attack the body mount bolts. I did however pick up a couple of things for the car. The block is a 39 deg. 425 with .921 lifters with the accompanying forged steel crank. Not pictured is a floor shift steering column I also picked up. In addition to picking up the parts I got to meet one of our own, 2blu442 aka John.

John lives down in Medford, Or. about a four and a half hour drive from my place so on one of my days off I drove down to look at some of the big blocks he had and the floor shift steering column. Sure glad I don't live closer, it'd be to easy to spend to much money. He virtually has an Oldsmobile toy store at his place. It was great to meet you John and thanks for the great deal on the parts.

Additionally I picked up a set of 307 roller lifter guide plates and the hold down spider after I came across blucab's thread on using roller lifters in the 425. After reading his thread I did a search for them and just happened to find a set on ebay. So now I have everything I need to build a nice 425. (Well except for a few minor pieces like pistons, connecting rods, heads, timing chain, intake manifold, piston rings, rod and main bearings, cam bearings, camshaft, pushrods, rocker arms etc. )

Scott

 

Been awhile since I've posted. I was at the point of lifting the body off the frame. I've been held up because I didn't want to take on the body mount bolts without a good impact wrench and the brand new air compressor I bought was delivered with a bad motor. Sears replaced the motor Wednesday and I was able to work on the car today.

Got the gas tank out and started on the body mount bolts. The rear two on each side came right out with the impact gun. Tried to pull the front ones and of course the nut just spun. I was going to put a socket on it to hold it but it's a square nut. Got some vise grips on it but no dice, so it looks like in the morning I'm going to have to go to the tool rental and rent a sawz-all.

Hopefully I'll be able to get some pictures lifting the body off tomorrow.

Scott

 

Managed to get the frame out from under the car today. I'm gonna turn the pressure washer on it to get, at least, the big chunks of crud off before I push it into the garage for tear down and overhaul.

Frame looks really good overall with the exception of the drivers side front body mount hole is egged out. Any ideas on the best way to fix it?

Thanks,
Scott

 

I'm doing mine the way you originally intended to do yours. Which means I will be doing everything two or three times before it gets done properly the first time like you now doing. Good luck and at least your not married to MAW. If you recall (and are old enough to remember, MAW was married to PAW (Kettle) and PAW's favorite line was he'd get a round to it "one of these days". I've actually seen a "Round Toit". I'll be watching your build.

 

Oh, I'm more than old enough to remember MAW and PAW Kettle (unfortunately)

The plan always was to tear the car down to parade rest at some point, however the more I started messing around with the car the more it became apparent that some point MAW be now.

I've got the frame in the garage and I'll spend the rainy season stripping it down, rebuilding/replacing all the pieces/parts and putting it all back together. Hopefully I'll also be able to start building the engine for it. I'd like to get the engine and transmission built and mounted in the frame before I put the frame back under the car.

Scott

 

Got a little more done. I've got the frame stripped down and ready to be cleaned up and painted. Luckily the frame seems to be in real good shape. Seems to be straight without any rust and no damage other than the one egged out body bushing hole which should be easy to fix.

The rear end came out really easy, the P/O has some sort of odd lash up on the lower control arms but I'm going to replace them anyway. The front end was another story. I was lucky that the lower control arm ball joints popped loose with a couple of good whacks of the BFH. I hate messing with those coil springs though, with good reason. The first came out without incident but on the second one, with the spring compressed, I had just dropped the lower control arm away from the spindle, stood up and walked to the tool box to get something and BAM! Something let loose, the spring was completely uncompressed and hanging from the spring compressor. Still can't figure out what happened as the compressor was sill in place but the spring was no longer compressed. I had read on one of the builds here to put a rod down through the spring in case of something like that happening, glad I did.

The good thing is I wont have to put them back in as I'm going with coil overs and tubular control arms when she goes back together. I've included a couple of shots of the stripped frame.

Scott

 

I am terrified of anything having to do with the front springs for the reason you mentioned above. Glad you weren't hurt.

 

Now the fun begins Scott... Looking forward to the transformation.

 

Thanks Joe. I treat those things like they're a loaded gun with the hammer cocked. Nice thing about having the body off is I could do all the work standing inside the frame and behind the spring pocket and control arms to keep the spring away from me if it let go.

Sean,
Not sure about the fun, I've gotta lot of work ahead getting the frame stripped and repainted, looking at a lot of wire wheel time. I'm thinking about having it sand blasted, but then I have to arrange a car trailer to haul it to the blaster. (I don't have a car trailer, no where to keep one.)

Thanks,
Scott

 

I hired a local flatbed truck to transport my frame to and from the powdercoater. I think we agreed to $75 which was a deal. Most powdercoaters have blasting capabilities too so therefore you dont have to worry about hauling the frame around town. Just some food for thought.

Sean

 

Thanks for that Sean, I'll have to look into it. I found a couple of media blasters that have portable rigs, but I assume it would have to be done outside, and here in the PNW, summer is over and that means rain until June.

Scott

 

Scott. Nice progress so far as someone who has wire wheeled a chasis ( also a 69 vert) I highly recommend the idea of blasting and powder coating, and if possible at least theunderside of the body before you mateit with the chasis I spent weeks on my back cleaning mine pics in mybuild thread I am now finally getting to the quarter panels maw lol.... ill be following along...

 

Thanks Eddie,

The plan is to sand blast and powder coat the frame. I'm sure I could wire wheel and paint it, but as you pointed out, it would be a real PITA and it wouldn't look as good. As far as the underside of the body is concerned, I haven't give much thought to it and if I was to blast the underside, I might as well do the whole thing. But that is quite a ways off, I still have a whole new front and rear suspension to do, plus a new rear end as well as box the frame. Additionally I'd like to get the motor and trans built and installed before I put the body back on.

Right now my biggest obstacle is time. The railroad is slammed with traffic and I'm working twelve hour shifts almost every day, and it doesn't look like its going to slow down anytime soon. Good news is all that over time will make it easier to buy more parts .

I've been following your build, you're doing a great job on yours. It'll be great to see you get it all done.

Scott

 

Scott appreciate the kind words... yeah making a little progress really brightens up my day... LOL..

I am sure you read Brians ( 69442) thread, and saw how he made a rotisseree out of a couple of engine stands, Highly recommended, man I cringe at the thought of how much time i spent under the car sanding scraping, sealing, painting, etc etc etc dont want to see others go through that LOL... I am now in the wheel wells finishing up the welds, than por 15 etc When I say al jolson impersonator it is no joke...


I will be following along and if I can help in any small way let me know...

 

oh I thought about the body mount hole and you may be able to get a bf Washer, thick , with the proper hole size etc and weld it in there, one thing to be carful of is the bolts some companies offer generic bolts, and others factory looking ones, most kits come with extra donuts for different applications, make a mental note now which came from where... just saying, the assembly manual does specify which goes where but they use colour coded designators that do not come on the run of the mill kits... just saying.

 

I'll have to look for it again but one of the aftermarket suspension outfits makes a repair kit for the frame bushing holes. They come in a pack of twenty, guess I could just give the others away as guys on here need em.

TAKE NOTES!!! I'LL BET I SHOULD HAVE ORGANIZED AND LABELED ALL THE BRACKETS AND FASTENERS AS I REMOVED THEM TOO, AND I'LL BET I SHOULD HAVE BAGGED AND LABELED ALL THE BOLTS I TOOK OFF INSTEAD OF JUST THROWING THEM IN A BIG COFFEE CAN!!! WHAT KINDA SISSY STUFF IS THAT??? Seriously, by the time I got the body bolts out and the frame out from under the car, all the bushing had been knocked out of their respective places. I'm sure I'll be able to figure it out with the assembly manual. (crosses fingers) As for fasteners, there won't be any original ones left when I'm done. This is just a plain ole Cutlass, so this isn't going to be a concourse restoration, and using forty year old hardware just doesn't make sense to me.

Depending how much pain I want to inflict on myself and therefore how much of the body work I try and do myself (I've never done any body work before, know nothing about it) I'll probably just invest in a rotisserie, hell by that time I'll have so much money in this thing what's another two grand? And besides, anything that's going to hold something that big and that heavy probably shouldn't be welded together by me.

Thanks for the offer of help, I really appreciate it. That's the main reason I'm doing a build thread is so all you guys can point out what I'm doing wrong (hopefully before I do it) and tell me how to fix it. It's been a long time since I've done any of this and so much has changed that I'm gonna need all the help I can get.

Thanks,
Scott

 

No real progress to speak of but I did have a consultation phone call with Ron Sutton http://www.ronsuttonracetechnology.com today. In the next few days he'll be sending me a data packet and I'll get to spend sometime measuring every suspension pickup point on my frame. He'll plug all the data into a computer program to calculate all the instant centers, roll centers etc. and will be able to tell how far off the factory mounting locations are and what I'll need to do to fix em. Then it'll be on to boxing the frame and some other things to stiffen it up and I'll be on the way to dragging my Cutlass, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.

Scott

 

Scott man I cant even imagine how to reenginner something like the suspension hats off to you, I thought restoring was bad, looking forward to seeing this as it progresses.

 

Me either, that's why I'm getting professional help (the good kind). We all know how badly these cars handle compared to even the most bread and butter late model econo-boxes. Well there are all kinds of things we can do now to make these cars handle, accelerate, and brake as well as any of the modern sports cars and there are guys like Ron Sutton and Mark Savitske that know how to do it. So while I've got it completely torn down, why not take the opportunity to make it drive as good as these cars look, although by the time it's done I'll probably need more professional help (the bad kind).

Scott