350 stroker build re assembly PS Pump issue

Old June 25th, 2016, 12:01 PM
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350 stroker build re assembly PS Pump issue

The procomp Aluminum heads hang off the 350 block a bit too far for the low pressure / return line fitting, that is also an integral part of the pump housing, so, the "fitting" hits the head before the pump is all in the correct position to fasten it. Anyone else encountered this? ideas? suggestions? perhaps an aftermarket pump that has threaded holes for a 90* fitting or?? New computer...I'll add a pic or two later.
Thanks!
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Old June 25th, 2016, 02:19 PM
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You should be able to carefully bend the line to fit past the head. Good to know about this issue.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 02:35 PM
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I did try a bit but it sure seems like it will kink easily, maybe a little heat?pump is dry and new..
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Old June 25th, 2016, 06:12 PM
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To keep the line from kinking you might try one of those spring type tubing benders. It is basically a tightly wound spring that fits over the tubing and keeps pressure on all sides of the tubing as you bend it. Just a thought.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 06:16 PM
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The 71-72 reservoirs are slightly different shape maybe that will fit in there? Iirc that return line is attached to the res near the end and where it goes into the res that might make it hard to bend in the middle, I would guess it's welded to the res if you could detach it it should be easy to move then re weld? Did you have the tension bolt tight w spacer between pump and bracket and still not enough room?
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Old June 26th, 2016, 08:17 AM
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Thanks CJsdad......Tetro- I do have all spacers in place per the csm diagram. just need about 1/4 inch. Not much of a welder, is that case easy to warp and ruin I would think....anyone using an after market pump with a pic of the back I could see?
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Old June 26th, 2016, 08:36 AM
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How about a Camaro rebuilt pump, the return line is on the outer bottom edge. Part # 207803 Fits Model Year 1985-1987 can be referenced at any auto parts store.

https://www.123autoparts.com/product...utlass-supreme




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Old June 26th, 2016, 09:07 AM
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Take a grinder to the corner of that head and be done with it. You could remove a 1/4 inch easy.
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Old June 26th, 2016, 12:22 PM
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Old- great pic, thanks, are "all" GM PS pumps the same internally?Will my Olds pulley fit right on? Trip- the elbow in the pic hits the head in trying to arc the pump up into the correct position, I would have to grind a fairly deep and wide arc, not going to take a chance considering the investment I have in the heads alone.
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Old June 26th, 2016, 02:59 PM
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I just looked at the 72 pump res VS the 70 pump res the farthest part of the tube extends ~1-1/16 on both pumps so no go on changes res style, but if you use a BBO the heads are ~ 1" higher so no interference fit idk if that helps tho. Yeah looks like the return is brazed to the res so bending it any looks like begging for leaks.
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Old June 26th, 2016, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by boese1978 View Post
Old- great pic, thanks, are "all" GM PS pumps the same internally?Will my Olds pulley fit right on? Trip- the elbow in the pic hits the head in trying to arc the pump up into the correct position, I would have to grind a fairly deep and wide arc, not going to take a chance considering the investment I have in the heads alone.
I swapped a Saginaw pump for my steering box and have no issues. I chose that one for you due to the location of the return line. The only thing I can suggest is to look at the specs for the pulley or just compare it to your old one. Worst case is you return it.
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Old June 28th, 2016, 03:49 AM
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Got it! I LIGHTLY heated the return line "fitting" and tapped ( bent ) it downwards a bit with a rubber mallet. I also had to file just the tip of the corner of the head. Two last large expense items ( gear swap and exhaust system) and the rest is nickle and dime for some plumbing. Hope to be back on the road soon.
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Old September 14th, 2016, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
How about a Camaro rebuilt pump, the return line is on the outer bottom edge. Part # 207803 Fits Model Year 1985-1987 can be referenced at any auto parts store.

https://www.123autoparts.com/product...utlass-supreme




I am resurrecting this thread. I did as mentioned above( slightly bending the tube) but it leaks so I guess I cracked the case a bit. Question on the Camaro pump above, will it accept the stock pulley? Any difference internally or is it basically the same pump with different fittings? Has anyone used one of the chrome pumps with just the threaded holes in back? Hate to spend all that if the camaro one will work.
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Old September 14th, 2016, 09:57 AM
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The Chevy pump option worked for me on Edelbrocks. I was lucky enough to have one laying around after a serpentine conversion on 67 SS. Don't know if it was "proper" for that application but that is what it came out of. Your innards will work.
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Old September 15th, 2016, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
How about a Camaro rebuilt pump, the return line is on the outer bottom edge. Part # 207803 Fits Model Year 1985-1987 can be referenced at any auto parts store.

https://www.123autoparts.com/product...utlass-supreme




So, after trips to 3 parts stores and opening about 16 diff boxed Power steering pumps I can assure everyone that the pics on ALL of the pumps do not match what you get out of the box- as noted on the screen disclaimers. After looking at various ones I found one for a 85 Pontiac Bonneville that exactly matches the "camaro" one above. But, the pulley shaft has the inner threads as opposed to my 68 with the threaded pulley shaft. Where do I begin to find the correct size V belt pulley for my app? Suggestions welcome.
Thanks
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Old September 15th, 2016, 01:31 PM
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Can't help you about the pully. For the belt, get a piece of string or tape measure to get you in the ball park in length size. Its also helpful to have a patient counter person at the auto store. You've gotten this far, finding a belt won't be too bad.
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Old September 15th, 2016, 01:40 PM
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I did not mean to say pulley, but the "nut" that holds the pulley on, sorry for my confusion what are they called?
Thanks for the belt tip, I knew .......used to work at a Crown Auto, anyone remember them?
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Old September 15th, 2016, 07:04 PM
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I personally like the old style pump tank better than the newer squared looking one. Im not sure which is right for your 68, but you could easily take the pump out of your older tank and have the tube fitting re brazed in any position you need. Or take the new fitting and put it on your old tank, then you can keep your same pulley. I cant imagine anyone would charge much to braze that on. I would do it free if you were here.
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Old September 16th, 2016, 08:24 AM
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Here's the Saginaw (general) breakdown, I'm sure others will correct some details:
There are two main types of pumps: P and Type II. P was used from 60's on. Type II started in 90's and is used in most applications now, although a P shows up from time to time. II has a completely different mounting and plumbing, so we'll skip that.

P had two pulley shaft styles - keyed shaft with nut and a press fit shaft.
P also had two outlet configurations - standard flare seat and metric o-ring.
In general (but not absolute), press fit uses metric o-rings, keyway uses flares.

There are two styles of P body. The normal pump with a big housing, then the non-submerged N pump that uses a remote reservoir. N is unusual and hard to find, so we'll ignore it.

The P body is identical through the years, although the mount bosses may be tapped differently for different applications (standard/metric, which holes are tapped).
Any P body can be mounted in any reservoir.

There are two actual P pumps. There's a high-capacity version which uses larger vanes. That was is pretty rare, so we'll ignore it.

Saginaw changed an outlet pressure relief valve and the size of the outlet restriction for different applications. In general - for a street car with a Saginaw gear (not a rack/pinion) - these changes tend not to matter much. More exciting applications, like track cars, hydroboost, rock crawlers, can be very sensitive to those changes.


So, in general, P pumps are highly interchangeable. Just need to get the right shaft mount, outlet fitting type, and thread style. All the mounting dimensions, and the placement of the pulley, are identical across all the years.
Reservoirs changed *a lot* for application specific location of fill tubes, return lines, and general shape. Most are the can-o-ham shape, but there's loads of return line configurations.
The generic "GM Saginaw Pump" available at most aftermarket places - most of which appear to be a whiteboxed Tuff Stuff unit and is the reservoir pictured above - fits pretty much anything that mounts on the driver's side.

You can also buy pumps and reservoirs separately. Installation isn't difficult, although some basic care needs to be taken to prevent leaks. It's a big seal.



So, that "inner thread" shaft is a press fit. Will probably have all metric fittings. That's fine, but can be a headache as you're talking new hose ends and whatnot. 2 groove press fit pulleys with the right offset are available from Dorman - I don't have the part # handy, sadly.

Parts store rebuild power steering pumps - all brands - can be hit or miss. It's actually pretty hard to hurt a saginaw pump if the fluid is kept clean and filled. A basic reseal is normally all that's needed. A few tricky steps, but certainly DIY.


If your pump is in good shape, I'd recommend getting an aftermarket housing (e.g. Tuff Stuff 6501C) and a seal kit (seal kits available from Rock Auto or anywhere else as a "pump rebuild kit", <$10) and just swap your pump over. Done.
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Old September 17th, 2016, 06:40 AM
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Thanks to both of you guys from Tx! I think I am going to go the brazing route first as I know what I have fits the block and head. Question- say I wanted to use the Bonny pump, is it possible to rotate the pump within the housing?
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Old September 17th, 2016, 09:06 AM
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is it possible to rotate the pump within the housing?
No, the fittings only line up one way in the case
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Old September 18th, 2016, 05:23 AM
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Thanks Trip
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Old September 18th, 2016, 06:14 AM
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Just shows how much of a pain the heads hanging over the front of the block is. No mechanical fuel pump and certain power steering pumps won't fit. Hopefully the brazing works out and you can enjoy this awesome build. Good luck.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 11:39 AM
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Hi all- I am getting very close to being on the road after taking a bit of a break....but....my machinist has been diagnosed with Alzheimers and can not provide me with the answers to some questions I have. As I was looking through my notes and rcpts from him I can find no mention or purchase of a thrust bearing. I know I'll have to tear down a bit to find out, my question is- am I going to cause problems if I start and idle the car to fine tune? How about a short trip to the alignment rack? Thoughts?

I am getting my PS pump brazed and should have it back in my hands this week.
Thanks!
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 12:06 PM
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If you mean the crankshaft thrust bearing it would have come with the main bearing set, doubt he would order it separate. I'm sure it's in there unless you're able to move the crankshaft an 1/8th of an inch or more front to back.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 02:00 PM
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Cam shaft roller set up- cam shaft thrust bearing
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 04:42 PM
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Yes, the button / thrust bearing for the end of the cam shaft when using a roller set up.
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Old April 4th, 2017, 05:31 AM
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What do you guys think? A little driving ok if indeed the bearing was not installed?
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Old April 4th, 2017, 06:03 AM
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Yeah unfortunately the only way to know is to tear it apart. The button is there to contact the cover and only let the cam move forward so much, only an issue with roller cams. Contact Mark on this one.
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Old April 4th, 2017, 09:07 AM
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You could see the thrust button/bolt through the fuel pump window or possibly through the oil fill hole if the oil shield is missing. You could also take the distributor out and physically move the cam back and forth. It should move no more than a few thousandths if the thrust bolt is in place.
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Old August 1st, 2017, 05:01 AM
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How did your power steering pump turn out? Any pics of the final solution?
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Old August 4th, 2017, 02:57 PM
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the fix

so I ended up buying a spare pump, fabricating a jig with a vise etc to hold a metal dowel to the back of the pump jammed against the return line. Then I gently heated the line and used a rubber mallet to "roll" the curved line over the dowel and had plenty of clearance. been working fine for a few thousand miles now.
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Old August 4th, 2017, 03:28 PM
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Any particular reason you didn't follow "TripDueces" idea of just grinding off the corner a bit on the head? Would have saved a lot of time and money........
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Old August 4th, 2017, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 1970-W30 View Post
Any particular reason you didn't follow "TripDueces" idea of just grinding off the corner a bit on the head? Would have saved a lot of time and money........
Probably has something to do with modding a $100 power steering pump vs. modding a $1,000 set of really cool aluminum heads.

I would go with the pump too.
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Old August 5th, 2017, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cjsdad View Post
Probably has something to do with modding a $100 power steering pump vs. modding a $1,000 set of really cool aluminum heads.

I would go with the pump too.
BINGO! and as stated in a previous response to this thread
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Old June 10th, 2018, 02:52 PM
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I know this is an old thread, but I thought this info would be helpful to someone who may search and find this thread. Tuff Stuff makes a replacement reservoir tank that will solve the aluminum head interference problem. The part number is 6501b (the "b" is for black powder coat, use "a" for chrome finish and "c" for unpainted, raw steel). Here's a few pics:

Olds pump on the left, Tuff Stuff on the right.


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