1970 442 Pace Car Restoration
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,866
From: Carrolllton Texas
Charlie - two things from your pics:
When hooking up the lines running to the cylinders from the pump, is there a port on the pump that should go to a specific line going to the cylinders? In other words, is one of the outlet ports specifically for going up and the other for going down - and if so, how do you know?
I noticed you mounted the condenser on the blower motor with the mounting tab between the blower motor and the cowling - is this the way the original was? I put mine between the bolt head and the blower body - is this incorrect?
Thanks,
Joe
When hooking up the lines running to the cylinders from the pump, is there a port on the pump that should go to a specific line going to the cylinders? In other words, is one of the outlet ports specifically for going up and the other for going down - and if so, how do you know?
I noticed you mounted the condenser on the blower motor with the mounting tab between the blower motor and the cowling - is this the way the original was? I put mine between the bolt head and the blower body - is this incorrect?
Thanks,
Joe
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 560
From: illinois
Charlie - two things from your pics:
When hooking up the lines running to the cylinders from the pump, is there a port on the pump that should go to a specific line going to the cylinders? In other words, is one of the outlet ports specifically for going up and the other for going down - and if so, how do you know?
I noticed you mounted the condenser on the blower motor with the mounting tab between the blower motor and the cowling - is this the way the original was? I put mine between the bolt head and the blower body - is this incorrect?
Thanks,
Joe
When hooking up the lines running to the cylinders from the pump, is there a port on the pump that should go to a specific line going to the cylinders? In other words, is one of the outlet ports specifically for going up and the other for going down - and if so, how do you know?
I noticed you mounted the condenser on the blower motor with the mounting tab between the blower motor and the cowling - is this the way the original was? I put mine between the bolt head and the blower body - is this incorrect?
Thanks,
Joe
charlie,,,
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,665
From: Maryland
Hi Charlie,
Your car is looking great and it looks like you are well on your way.
I noticed you installed the rear speak and grille. When the top is done and the well liner is installed, you'll need to remove the speaker grille and cut a hole in the liner around the speaker and then put the grille back in place but now over the liner. Otherwise, the well liner will cover over the speaker and grille which will block the sound.
Brian
Your car is looking great and it looks like you are well on your way.
I noticed you installed the rear speak and grille. When the top is done and the well liner is installed, you'll need to remove the speaker grille and cut a hole in the liner around the speaker and then put the grille back in place but now over the liner. Otherwise, the well liner will cover over the speaker and grille which will block the sound.
Brian
.
.
Registered User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,627
From: Austin, Texas
Charlie - on the D side of your intake, forward of the carb...there's two holes in a "pad" on the intake one of which is threaded. Don't know if your application uses a throttle stop "plunger" type setup(nothing installed there in your pics) but if it doesn't then be aware that one of those holes goes clear through to the intake port. Leave it open and you'll have one massive vacuum leak. For cars that didn't use the throttle stop "plunger" setup you would install a bolt in that hole to plug off the opening.
Last edited by 70Post; Feb 22, 2013 at 11:38 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 172
Charlie - on the D side of your intake, forward of the carb...there's two holes in a "pad" on the intake one of which is threaded. Don't know if your application uses a throttle stop "plunger" type setup(nothing in installed there in your pics) but if it doesn't then be aware that one of those holes goes clear through to the intake port. Leave it open and you'll have one massive vacuum leak. For cars that didn't use the throttle stop "plunger" setup you would install a bolt in that hole to plug off the opening.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 560
From: illinois
how ya been? yes the vacuum hose set along with the date coded spark plug wires are from inline tube. i have been very happy with there products along with there tech help!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 560
From: illinois
Charlie - on the D side of your intake, forward of the carb...there's two holes in a "pad" on the intake one of which is threaded. Don't know if your application uses a throttle stop "plunger" type setup(nothing in installed there in your pics) but if it doesn't then be aware that one of those holes goes clear through to the intake port. Leave it open and you'll have one massive vacuum leak. For cars that didn't use the throttle stop "plunger" setup you would install a bolt in that hole to plug off the opening.
Registered User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,627
From: Austin, Texas
70 Cutlass SX
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,042
From: Bermuda
Hi Charlie - I may not be right but are you missing your TVS (termostatic vaccum switch). Also, on my harness the green wire goes to the coolant temp sender, and the blue/white one goes to the oil pressure.
Your car looks amazing I hope to see it one day. I hope you are going to drive it!!!
Your car looks amazing I hope to see it one day. I hope you are going to drive it!!!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 560
From: illinois
pcard, that harness is from m&h electric and the way it is laid out {wire length to senders} that is the only way it fit nicely. with that said and a little investigating thru past threads it seems you are correct! thanks for the tip. as for the tvs,,, i believe it is a little diff with the oai / w-30 setup. maybe some of the experts will chime in?
Registered User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,627
From: Austin, Texas
I think you may need the TVS ('70 version) in the spot on the P side front water passage of the intake where you currently have the large square pipe plug. If I'm looking at this Olds manual correctly I believe the 442's with auto (NON-AC) used the TVS.
If you are going for the W30 look, then a '70 W30 Auto (NON-AC) would not use the TVS setup and the plug you have is correct. '70 W30 Auto w/AC would use the TVS setup.
If you are going for the W30 look, then a '70 W30 Auto (NON-AC) would not use the TVS setup and the plug you have is correct. '70 W30 Auto w/AC would use the TVS setup.
70 Cutlass SX
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,042
From: Bermuda
Charlie: I understand about the harness fit - my harness does not run straight accross the valve cover either but loops toward the front.
As to the TVS, you and Patton are correct, with reference to the section 6 page 32 of the engine assembly manual the W30 Auto Trans does not take the TVS with no AC.
If you are going to drive the car: I have the TCS installed, but I bypass it when I drive the car so that I get manifold vacuum to the advance at all times - the engine seems to like it.
As to the TVS, you and Patton are correct, with reference to the section 6 page 32 of the engine assembly manual the W30 Auto Trans does not take the TVS with no AC.
If you are going to drive the car: I have the TCS installed, but I bypass it when I drive the car so that I get manifold vacuum to the advance at all times - the engine seems to like it.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 560
From: illinois
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
Thanks for the compliments, guys! I'm looking forward to having the car done & I can't wait to drive it. It's been really cool to watch it come together so beautifully. Larry has done an amazing job!
Yes, I will be driving the car (on nice days) & doing some shows with it. I am planning on taking it to Nationals. I emailed Gene & he was very helpful in getting me signed up & registered. I've never had a car in a show to be judged before. There's a lot more to it than I expected!
Yes, I will be driving the car (on nice days) & doing some shows with it. I am planning on taking it to Nationals. I emailed Gene & he was very helpful in getting me signed up & registered. I've never had a car in a show to be judged before. There's a lot more to it than I expected!
70 Cutlass SX
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,042
From: Bermuda
The same thing happened to me, I started out wanting to redo the paint, upholstery and safety gear. Ended up with a brand new car. Our (my wife and mine) biggest motivation was a personal, stark reminder that life is unpredictable and can be shorter than you think.
I am glad you will be at Nationals, and look forward to meeting you there.
Cheers, Peter
I am glad you will be at Nationals, and look forward to meeting you there.
Cheers, Peter
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 560
From: illinois
was not sure on the routing on the heater hose, we tried it both ways and it seemed a better fit under the alt bracket especially with the protective wrap. did not know the oil cap difference though. thanks for the tip!!
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 715
From: CHICAGO
FYI all these things and the red inner fender wells you will get ding for at the nationals.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
Very nice, what fun to redo a car like that!
Any chance you found the frame VIN stamp in all that, photographed it?
"some of the nonsense he told me about points and deductions was just silly"
Well, sure, you have to understand that, in that arena, all the offerings are very nice, so in order to have a winner, you have to resort to nitpicking the smallest of details sometimes. [Amount of overspray on the mufflers for example] Also, opinions vary regarding e.g. exact shade of gloss of the various blacks used, which was used where, how well yours matches what they think it was/ should be.... etc.
Oil fill cap is easy- I see the NOS one on epay at $90:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1967-68-...ce8c0a&vxp=mtr
or somewhat less elsewhere for [presumably] Chinese "copy" unit. Painted engine color I believe. As should be your rocker cover bolts and lower alt bracket. While not 100% sure, it looks to me like your oil level indicator has too long of a handle. A used OEM one might work better for showtime- more of a short "P" rather than a long tall "?" shape. Upper alt bracket at intake should be just a hex head bolt, not flanged. No flat washer under nut at top PS bracket to 5/16 boltstud.
And Lord I hope you have the right flavor and angle of orientation of the wireform hose clamps.
Mind you, I am not a show car judge, but I went over the photos above and noticed things that show car judges may find require a pts deduction, especially if the car next to you is "more correct"
Motor Mount pads to frame should have Lock Washer Nut topside not underneath- frames were upside down when first few parts were put on? PN sticker for example [on the '66 I helped with] was upside down.
The intake's heater hose nipple looks wrong- brass? Maybe it's zinc plating? Does it have a proper restriction of about 1/4" ID- if not yo may rupture your heater core or at least have objectionable coolant flow noise.
PS pump paint daub missing?
firewall stamps were present on every factory original car I have seen- "EE" or similar, usually two or more.
Similarly, on the original '66, we found wax pencil markings "943" or similar- which I believe was the job # as it came down the line. We duplicated these markings in size and location as best we could. Of course, if yours were obliterated in previous work, you could only guess at what and where they were.
Fuel pump ac logo missing?
date coded diodes in the alternator? [Seriously, I have heard Corvette folks agonize over this level of detail...]
The exact shape of the oil pressure sender- Ck this one for example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tchlink:top:en
choke adj appears to be off- perhaps an early photo- the adjusting line should be near the other indicating lines.
carb air horn screws have been black plated not gold zinc plated on every original carb I have seen.
Heavy flat washers are not used under the bolts at the intake's U bracket- the bracket serves that purpose- but then I am not used to AL intakes of the 1970 models, so I might be wrong there.
throttle return spring should be a double- a redundancy for safety in case one breaks.
Seems a shame to drive something like that - all them pretty part number tags are going to get wasted.
Any chance you found the frame VIN stamp in all that, photographed it?
"some of the nonsense he told me about points and deductions was just silly"
Well, sure, you have to understand that, in that arena, all the offerings are very nice, so in order to have a winner, you have to resort to nitpicking the smallest of details sometimes. [Amount of overspray on the mufflers for example] Also, opinions vary regarding e.g. exact shade of gloss of the various blacks used, which was used where, how well yours matches what they think it was/ should be.... etc.
Oil fill cap is easy- I see the NOS one on epay at $90:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1967-68-...ce8c0a&vxp=mtr
or somewhat less elsewhere for [presumably] Chinese "copy" unit. Painted engine color I believe. As should be your rocker cover bolts and lower alt bracket. While not 100% sure, it looks to me like your oil level indicator has too long of a handle. A used OEM one might work better for showtime- more of a short "P" rather than a long tall "?" shape. Upper alt bracket at intake should be just a hex head bolt, not flanged. No flat washer under nut at top PS bracket to 5/16 boltstud.
And Lord I hope you have the right flavor and angle of orientation of the wireform hose clamps.
Mind you, I am not a show car judge, but I went over the photos above and noticed things that show car judges may find require a pts deduction, especially if the car next to you is "more correct"
Motor Mount pads to frame should have Lock Washer Nut topside not underneath- frames were upside down when first few parts were put on? PN sticker for example [on the '66 I helped with] was upside down.
The intake's heater hose nipple looks wrong- brass? Maybe it's zinc plating? Does it have a proper restriction of about 1/4" ID- if not yo may rupture your heater core or at least have objectionable coolant flow noise.
PS pump paint daub missing?
firewall stamps were present on every factory original car I have seen- "EE" or similar, usually two or more.
Similarly, on the original '66, we found wax pencil markings "943" or similar- which I believe was the job # as it came down the line. We duplicated these markings in size and location as best we could. Of course, if yours were obliterated in previous work, you could only guess at what and where they were.
Fuel pump ac logo missing?
date coded diodes in the alternator? [Seriously, I have heard Corvette folks agonize over this level of detail...]
The exact shape of the oil pressure sender- Ck this one for example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tchlink:top:en
choke adj appears to be off- perhaps an early photo- the adjusting line should be near the other indicating lines.
carb air horn screws have been black plated not gold zinc plated on every original carb I have seen.
Heavy flat washers are not used under the bolts at the intake's U bracket- the bracket serves that purpose- but then I am not used to AL intakes of the 1970 models, so I might be wrong there.
throttle return spring should be a double- a redundancy for safety in case one breaks.
Seems a shame to drive something like that - all them pretty part number tags are going to get wasted.
Last edited by Octania; Mar 2, 2013 at 06:26 AM.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 560
From: illinois
i will be the first person to say i know nothing about how the point system shows work. thats why i think it is great that there is so many friendly olds guys here with alot more experiance{sp} than i have and are helping me out along the way. i know some of the olds purist will frown on the red fenderwells and w-30 intake but thats ok.{the correct parts are restored and boxed up} in the end i would rather the olds community appreciate the car for what it is rather than the judges and the points.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 560
From: illinois
Very nice, what fun to redo a car like that!
Any chance you found the frame VIN stamp in all that, photographed it?
"some of the nonsense he told me about points and deductions was just silly"
Well, sure, you have to understand that, in that arena, all the offerings are very nice, so in order to have a winner, you have to resort to nitpicking the smallest of details sometimes. [Amount of overspray on the mufflers for example] Also, opinions vary regarding e.g. exact shade of gloss of the various blacks used, which was used where, how well yours matches what they think it was/ should be.... etc.
Oil fill cap is easy- I see the NOS one on epay at $90:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1967-68-...ce8c0a&vxp=mtr
or somewhat less elsewhere for [presumably] Chinese "copy" unit. Painted engine color I believe. As should be your rocker cover bolts and lower alt bracket. While not 100% sure, it looks to me like your oil level indicator has too long of a handle. A used OEM one might work better for showtime- more of a short "P" rather than a long tall "?" shape. Upper alt bracket at intake should be just a hex head bolt, not flanged. No flat washer under nut at top PS bracket to 5/16 boltstud.
And Lord I hope you have the right flavor and angle of orientation of the wireform hose clamps.
Mind you, I am not a show car judge, but I went over the photos above and noticed things that show car judges may find require a pts deduction, especially if the car next to you is "more correct"
Motor Mount pads to frame should have Lock Washer Nut topside not underneath- frames were upside down when first few parts were put on? PN sticker for example [on the '66 I helped with] was upside down.
The intake's heater hose nipple looks wrong- brass? Maybe it's zinc plating? Does it have a proper restriction of about 1/4" ID- if not yo may rupture your heater core or at least have objectionable coolant flow noise.
PS pump paint daub missing?
firewall stamps were present on every factory original car I have seen- "EE" or similar, usually two or more.
Similarly, on the original '66, we found wax pencil markings "943" or similar- which I believe was the job # as it came down the line. We duplicated these markings in size and location as best we could. Of course, if yours were obliterated in previous work, you could only guess at what and where they were.
Fuel pump ac logo missing?
date coded diodes in the alternator? [Seriously, I have heard Corvette folks agonize over this level of detail...]
The exact shape of the oil pressure sender- Ck this one for example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tchlink:top:en
choke adj appears to be off- perhaps an early photo- the adjusting line should be near the other indicating lines.
carb air horn screws have been black plated not gold zinc plated on every original carb I have seen.
Heavy flat washers are not used under the bolts at the intake's U bracket- the bracket serves that purpose- but then I am not used to AL intakes of the 1970 models, so I might be wrong there.
throttle return spring should be a double- a redundancy for safety in case one breaks.
Seems a shame to drive something like that - all them pretty part number tags are going to get wasted.
Any chance you found the frame VIN stamp in all that, photographed it?
"some of the nonsense he told me about points and deductions was just silly"
Well, sure, you have to understand that, in that arena, all the offerings are very nice, so in order to have a winner, you have to resort to nitpicking the smallest of details sometimes. [Amount of overspray on the mufflers for example] Also, opinions vary regarding e.g. exact shade of gloss of the various blacks used, which was used where, how well yours matches what they think it was/ should be.... etc.
Oil fill cap is easy- I see the NOS one on epay at $90:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1967-68-...ce8c0a&vxp=mtr
or somewhat less elsewhere for [presumably] Chinese "copy" unit. Painted engine color I believe. As should be your rocker cover bolts and lower alt bracket. While not 100% sure, it looks to me like your oil level indicator has too long of a handle. A used OEM one might work better for showtime- more of a short "P" rather than a long tall "?" shape. Upper alt bracket at intake should be just a hex head bolt, not flanged. No flat washer under nut at top PS bracket to 5/16 boltstud.
And Lord I hope you have the right flavor and angle of orientation of the wireform hose clamps.
Mind you, I am not a show car judge, but I went over the photos above and noticed things that show car judges may find require a pts deduction, especially if the car next to you is "more correct"
Motor Mount pads to frame should have Lock Washer Nut topside not underneath- frames were upside down when first few parts were put on? PN sticker for example [on the '66 I helped with] was upside down.
The intake's heater hose nipple looks wrong- brass? Maybe it's zinc plating? Does it have a proper restriction of about 1/4" ID- if not yo may rupture your heater core or at least have objectionable coolant flow noise.
PS pump paint daub missing?
firewall stamps were present on every factory original car I have seen- "EE" or similar, usually two or more.
Similarly, on the original '66, we found wax pencil markings "943" or similar- which I believe was the job # as it came down the line. We duplicated these markings in size and location as best we could. Of course, if yours were obliterated in previous work, you could only guess at what and where they were.
Fuel pump ac logo missing?
date coded diodes in the alternator? [Seriously, I have heard Corvette folks agonize over this level of detail...]
The exact shape of the oil pressure sender- Ck this one for example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tchlink:top:en
choke adj appears to be off- perhaps an early photo- the adjusting line should be near the other indicating lines.
carb air horn screws have been black plated not gold zinc plated on every original carb I have seen.
Heavy flat washers are not used under the bolts at the intake's U bracket- the bracket serves that purpose- but then I am not used to AL intakes of the 1970 models, so I might be wrong there.
throttle return spring should be a double- a redundancy for safety in case one breaks.
Seems a shame to drive something like that - all them pretty part number tags are going to get wasted.
thanks charlie,,
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 560
From: illinois
a few updated pics. with a few changes for correctness{sp} forgot to install correct oil dipstick but i got it. been slow going due to money issues not a whole lot left now. should have bumpers back in a week or so. new firestones tires should be in soon. if you guys watching could check pics closely for correctness and chime in that would be great. after careful reading and checking of assy manual i can see they really do have detailed pics of orientation of hose clamps, headlight wiring grounds pointing in specific directions, ect,ect, sheesh! oh well we are trying to go just as manual says. located nos oil fill cap, nos oil pressure guage, correct used oem oil dipstick, nos small ear, raised letter, rc15 rad cap.
charlie,, notice 2nd pic, stickers are not on yet. was wondering where exactly the smaller coolant sticker goes???
. should have bumpers back in a week or so. new firestones tires should be in soon. if you guys watching could check pics closely for correctness and chime in that would be great. after careful reading and checking of assy manual i can see they really do have detailed pics of orientation of hose clamps, headlight wiring grounds pointing in specific directions, ect,ect, sheesh! oh well we are trying to go just as manual says. located nos oil fill cap, nos oil pressure guage, correct used oem oil dipstick, nos small ear, raised letter, rc15 rad cap. charlie,, notice 2nd pic, stickers are not on yet. was wondering where exactly the smaller coolant sticker goes???
Last edited by charlierogers; Apr 15, 2013 at 07:37 PM. Reason: spelling
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