Old Olds Fan

I've got a 65 442 the cowl tag indicates it was built in Lansing in the 2cd. week of July (07B). The engine is in question, the heads are correct for the car by PoP #, but the short block is an 'E', and I'm told they only came in 66's. Does anyone have a Lansing car made around the same time and can you tell me what Julian date code your engine is?? Also what letter designation it has?? I'd like to get a understanding of the production dates, on engines going in to cars on the line, around July of 65. To some degree I'm confused, it's my understanding that the line closed down for the 65s, some time in August so that they could retool for the 66s which started production in September. Now I been told some cars have engines with very high Julian dates, past the Sept. change over? Can anyone steer me toward more information about the Lansing production and when things were happening?? Primarily, what engines were going in, when. Thanks for your input.

oldstata

I thought all 65 had B blocks this could be interesting any how have you checked out w29board it's a sight mainly for 64/65 but has some info in other years great bunch very helpful

Old Olds Fan

Very good idea, I just posted over there also, hope that's O.K. Just looking for a good answer.

66400

I have a July assembled 65 442 that I'll look at on Tuesday and get the info for you. It is a B block with A heads on it. By the way E block usage was 66 and 67. I doubt that any 65's have factory E blocks.

Henry

Old Olds Fan

66400, Henry, I think your right, the only way I can think it would be 'correct' is if it had been a warranty replacement short block and I don't know any way to find that out. So I'm looking for a 'correct 'B' block. It would be extreamly helpful to know what Julian date your engine is, it would really help in my search for a 'correct' 'B' block. Thanks for your time and trouble, and interest. Jim

66400

Do you have A cylinder heads? If so you should have an engine unit stamped number on the front of the rh head that should be some where around 24,000.

Henry

Old Olds Fan

Henry, My heads are stamped, well the RH one is, same number as my Protect-o-plate number, V024052. I think this is what your asking about, so I would be 24052, if they were sequential.

66400

Here's my info, build date of 7C. Block date casting number 93 (April 3rd). My engine unit number is stamped V023361. Lansing built car.
Total 65 442 production was 25,003 cars.
Henry

oldstata

I have a set of 442 heads number v019278
Numbers on the bottom are 821 142 5

I believe the 142 is the Julian date maybe this could help with your date code chart sorry I don't have build date for the car they came from

Old Olds Fan

Thanks Henry, I'll add your information. oldstata, you telling me about something I'm not familiar with. You say the cast in numbers have the Julian date incorporated in the series. That' s cool and yes it can help. What I take away from what you said is: Lansing 442 number 19278 had an engine with heads made on May 22cd which was the 2cd Tuesday in the third week. If the heads and engine were cast and assembled in the same time frame, then that dates the engine. Probably the car that engine went in was produced 2-3 weeks later, the second or third week of June. This helps me in that I can now check the cast number on my own heads and have a much better idea of when the engine they went on was built. I'll try to list cars by stamped head number, cast number, and include cowl tag info and VIN if I get it. Thanks Guys

oldstata

I will try and get the date off the block I know where it is it's in a 67 442 of a guy I know I will check and see if he can get me the date it's by the distributor correct ?

Old Olds Fan

Yes oldstata, the date is cast in, a large letter which I guess identifies the cast used and a number which usually looks as if it's on a tag that is also cast in. It's a Julian date code also. Thanks for your efforts, I tried to include a pic from 442BRO.com if it doesn't show just go to his web site, go to engines, and scroll down

Old Olds Fan

66400 I thank you for your input, as I understand you have a B engine made on 93 day (April 3d.) with head number V023361, assembled in Lansing in the 3rd. week of July. So your engine was 14weeks old when it went into the car. This is quite important to me, it expands the acceptable date for a correct block, thanks again. I do notice that your head code is numerically less than mine but you were built a week later, non of this stuff is easy to figure. Anyone with more input I would welcome your participation.

66400

You understand right.

Keep in mind that in '65 the 400 engine was exclusive to the 442. So when they cast a batch of 400 blocks it would take a while before they would use them up. Also remember it was not important to the manufacturer for every engine to be installed in chronological order. That should explain my engine unit/car build date verses your numbers.

On the subject of engine casting dates for 1966 400 engines there was a batch cast in Nov65 with 305/306/307's date codes and I know these engines were still being installed as late as March 1966, so you see there was quite a time range to find these engines. I believe this series of casting may be the longest run for 66 442's.

Henry

Old Olds Fan

Invaluable information, thanks again. I've an 'E' short block it has a 87 date along with a large 4 and what looks like a bicycle wheel with CFO next to it. I've been told the 4 is the mold number, do you know what the significance of the wheel and CFO might be? Do I understand you correctly that the engine dates will be in clumps, a group of dates and then a gap in time. That the process was cyclical, producing blocks for a few weeks or days and then no more production until demand called for it? Again this will be important to understand any patterns that might emerge. Thanks , Jim

66400

I don't know anything about molds no doubt of importance to the foundry for quality control. Yes blocks were cast in batches. The factory built 66 W30 cars had 88 block castings with June 66 assembly dates.

Henry

Keener

I think the CFO is actually CFD but poorly cast?? CFD = Central Foundry Division. It was GM's central foundry that made parts for all the divisions.

oldstata

Okay I asked on the block your currently looking at in another thread the block is a 120 Julian date and one head v code is a 153 Julian date and the non v coded head was a154

On my heads they are a 140 and 143 have not got date on block yet

oldstata

Okay b block date is 120 head dates are 140&143

This guy has had this block sense 1969

I wonder if they produced so many blocks every few weeks ?

Old Olds Fan

Good question oldstata, as you know I'm getting info on a number of threads. I am compiling everything on a graph like listing which I'll post, along with comments which I feel have additional information.
Keener, your right it is CFD, and it does mean Central Foundry Division. FCD was established in Nov. 1946, in 1948 a new Grey Iron Foundry in Defiance, Ohio was added, to supply gray iron castings to Oldsmobile. The other car companies had their own foundries, which began to close in 63 with Cadillac first, followed by Buick in 70, and CFD took over Pontiac sometime in the 80's. The Defiance facility I believe is still functioning. I'm looking for more info, I'll keep you posted

Keener

Regarding the julian dates and the cast form number. I know some have eluded to the #1 being 64 and #2 being 65, while others say the number 1 and 2 are cast form designations. I really think they are date numbers. I looked at three of my cars, two built in late 64 (i.e. in 1965) have #2, while the other built November of 64 has a #1. The model year goes from mid-year to mid-year, but I think the foundry followed a normal calender year. Oldoldsfan , maybe you can answer this question based on the responses you've received. Of course you would need to know the data plate build date in addition to the julian engine code.

oldstata

oldstata

The date code for a A head was on the bottom of the head

Octania

"same number as my Protect-o-plate number, V024052"
====================
Pretty close on that guess there
24,000 vs 24,052...