Hello all, I have a bit of a quandary I'm hoping some of you might be able to help me with. My 1972 Cutlass S is not starting. It will crank but won't start up. A few months ago, I started it up, took it for a drive and stalled out. This was the first drive in probably 6 months. A month prior the this incident, I couldn't get it to start at all. Then one day, it fired up no problem. The next week, I got everything all hooked up as I was doing body work and decided to take it out for a drive. She fired right up so I drove halfway around our block (~.25 miles) then when shifting from first to second, she stalled out. So I had to push her home and she's been sitting there since. I have finally had some time to explore what could be causing this and I've ruled out the fuel as she's getting fuel. I checked the spark and there is no spark at the plugs. So I followed that up to the ignition coil. I checked the coil and its reading 2.3 ohms from + to - and 11.6 from - to center of coil. I believe this is in tolerance. I did purchase a new one and tested it and is was 1.6 and 8.6 which seems low. I did a test where you hook the coil to the battery to see if it will allow a spark and the original threw a brighter spark than the new one. So I don't believe that is the issue. I also installed the new one and nothing changed. So I checked the points and gap and the points look fine and the gap was at .19. This is were it gets over my head. I used a spark tester to test if I am getting spark from the coil to the distributor and it will light up right before the engine cranks as I'm turning the key past acc to on but not during the cranking process but will light up again as I'm turning the key off passing the same position between acc and on. I've changed the green wires from the + side of the coil to the battery and solenoid as well as the black wire from the - side of the coil to the distributor as they were cracked and was showing exposed wire. I thought maybe I was getting a short or something. I measured to see if I'm getting charge from the battery to the coil and its getting ~7.5 volts to the + and the same to the - side. I forgot to open the points to see if the voltage changes as the points open and close. But I'm not sure where to go from here. Could it be the ignition switch? All the dash lights turn on. Battery seems strong. I checked the fuses under the dash and they all look fine. Any help would be much appreciated. I haven't had to fix an electric problem in this car since I've owned it so this is all new to me.

 

Point gap should be .016 not .19, it's actually better to use a dwell meter and set them to 30*. You need also to see if you have battery power when cranking. Just for giggles run a temporary jumper from the battery pos terminal to the coil + terminal and start the engine with the key. You will need to remove the jumper when you turn the key off.

 

Verify that the wire from the points to the coil and the ground wire from the point plate to the distributor body are both in good shape and that there are no breaks, shorts, loose connector crimps, etc. This sort of intermittent problem smacks of a wiring issue. Also, run a temporary jumper directly from the battery to the + terminal on the coil, then see if you get spark. Are you testing for spark at the coil wire or at the plug wires? A carbon track inside the distributor cap can cause spark to bleed to ground, so check right at the coil.

 

Good morning all, thanks for the reply! Originally the point gap as more like .15 but I read somewhere that it should be between .18-.20 so I adjusted it. I can adjust back. Can a multimeter help set dwell as I don't have a dwell meter? Good point about the battery, it may have enough power to crank the engine but not enough extra to throw a spark. Ok, I'll give that a try! Does that skip the ignition switch and fuses?

I have verified the wire from the points to the coil and the ground wire from the point plate to the distributor body are both in good shape with no cracks or exposed wires. I replaced the wires that we bad. I tested for spark at the plug wires first and didn't get anything. I tested at the coil wire and also didn't get anything. I took the distributor cap off and looked at the rotor and didn't see any build up. I also checked inside the distributor cap and the leads all look fine.

 

Get a dwell meter.
Get a volt-ohm meter and actually test the resistance in the wires from coil to points and point plate to ground. Visual inspection won't tell you if there is a loose crimp. The wire directly from the battery to the coil bypasses everything else. Obviously if the engine starts you will need to disconnect this wire to turn it off.

 

Will do! And that's a good point, I'll see if I am getting the correct resistance in the wires and make sure there's not a short. And I try the direct connect from the coil to the battery and see if she'll fire up! Thanks for the info. I'll let you all know what happens!

 

You keep saying the point gap is .19 ?? Are you maybe measuring it with a metric feeler gauge ? .19mm would be about .007" which is too tight. .19 inches is almost 1/8 inch, waaay to big.

 

Sorry I meant .019 and .015.

 

I would second the points on getting a Dwell meter. Usually they are combination meters for RPM and voltage, two other critical measurements for you. You can measure the Dwell while it is just cranking. If you are measuring the gap with the feeler gage, make sure you measuring it when the rubbing block on the points is at the high point of the distributor lube. But really get the Dwell meter.

 

Unfortunately, analog dwell meters are only available nowadays used. Here's a good thread on finding a dwell meter.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-meter-152687/

Good luck getting her started.🤞

 

Hello everyone and thank you for the advice so far. I have checked the battery and it's sitting at 9.9 volts when cranking so it's putting out enough power. I also tried to start it while being jumped to see if that helped. It didn't. I checked the points again and adjusted to .015 though I am getting a dwell meter today. I checked the ohms from the - terminal on the coil and the ground wire on the distributor and when the points are open im getting 9.0 ohms and when the points are closed im getting around 150 ohms. I'm not sure what that means but hopefully someone on here knows. I tried to connect the + battery cable to the + side of the coil to see if it would start and it didn't change anything. Still no spark. Any other ideas? Or is there any information you all might like that could be of use?

 

It seems to me that your points are not closing. Are you adjusting the points on one of the 8 corners of the distributor lobe?

 

Why do you think they are not closing, just for my knowledge? They are definitely closing as I rotated the engine so that the point was sitting at the top of the cam so it was as open as possible. Then I adjusted to the .015 feeler guage I have. But it definitely closes when I crank the engine. I can see it opening and closing, though it's a very slight movement. Could it be buildup on the points? I sanded them off when I first started looking at it but maybe it's worse than I thought.

 

Put a test light on the coil - terminal and crank the engine. You should see the light flash as the points open and close.

 

Thats the issue, I'm not getting any spark from the coil to the distributor. I've had the spark detector from the coil to the cap and when I crank it, nothing happens. But the points open and close, the coil is good, there's energy getting to the coil. I've replaced the wires from the + and - on the coil to the battery, solenoid, and distributor and still nothing. I've tried to start with a cable from the battery to the +on the coil and I've checked to gap between points and have set them to the .015 as recommended. Im not sure what else to check.

 

Sounds like a bad coil and your battery should be way more than 9.9 while cranking.

 

I've tested the coil and it's good. I was at 2.3 ohms from + to - and 13.7 from - to center point. I even replaced it and still didn't start. And what should the battery be at when cranking? It was reading 12 when connected to jumper cables connected to a running car and just regular cranking.

 

A battery on a running car should be 13.6 - 14.2 or so. Cranking should be 12.5 to 12.8 volts or so. If you've tested coil and deem it good then replace the points. You said you've looked and checked all the wires.

 

A good battery should be 13.8-14.7 volts with no load

 

I'm not certain how you're validating the IGN coil is good, but here's how I test the secondary windings of an IGN coil. Secondary windings as in the capability to provide voltage TO the distributor.
(1) All wires disconnected from the IGN coil - all of them;
(2) Attach one DIMM probe to the + Batt position on the IGN coil then probe the IGN coil tower (center IGN coil to the distributor) with the other DMM probe. Set DMM to 20k Ohms.

The resistance of the IGN coil should nominally be >10K ohms. 6K ohms won't cut it, if you're barely at 8K ohms it's entirely "iffy". Optimally you should expect the secondary windings of the IGN coil to have a resistance in the range of 13K ohms - 15K ohms. If you have >10K ohms I'd consider the IGN coil to be satisfactory.

 

Your issue is between the coil and the points. If there is a tach hooked up, disconnect it and any other wiring not stock from the coil. With the points open you should see battery voltage at the points terminal with the key on. If you do it’s time to replace the points and condenser.

Also a fully charged battery is 12.6 volts.

 

Ok, I put the battery on a slow charge to see if I can get the required cranking volts out of it. And I mis-typed earlier about the coil. It was showing 13.7K ohms from the - to the center coil. And I'm going to replace the points. I have a dwell meter now so I can set the gap correctly. I noticed there was a little build up on the metal edge of the rotor (not the top). I also examined the distributor cap a bit closer and it looks ok but its pretty old (both are at least 15 years old along with the points). Is there a way to test either of those? How often should they be replaced? I don't want to throw money at the problem but I also want to make sure I'm doing routine maintenance at regular intervals.

 

Replace the cap and rotor along with the points

 

IMHO, the distributor cap, rotor, points and condenser are routine maintenance. Caps and rotors were frequently replaced during tuneups unless they looked excellent. A rotor can cause a no start condition if it has a hole burned in it or a path of carbon providing a connection to ground, pretty much the same for a distributor cap.

 

^^x2^^

 

Hello all,
I was finally able to work on my car. I replaced the cap, the rotor, and the points and I am still not getting any spark. I charged the battery up and was cranking at 12.4-12.6 volts. Could there be a fuse or relay that could have burned out? It cranks strong but I just don't get any spark. I re-tested the coil and its still showing 2.3 ohms from + to - and 12K ohms from - to center of coil. I've tried to start it by running a wire from the + battery terminal to the + at the coil and still nothing. I'm not sure what else to try. I set the dwell on the points with a feeler gauge first to .015 and then hooked up the dwell meter but when I crank, the dwell meter doesn't read a change at all. The needle doesn't move as though its not cranking. What would this mean. I am at a loss. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Does the distributor turn when the engine is cranked? Do the points close completely and open as the distributor turns?

 

Yep, when I'm cranking the engine I can see the rotor move and its pushing the points open and they close completely when the top of the cam passes.

 

OK, I'm going to be a little picky to ensure we're talking apples & oranges:
(1) Sugar Bear asked: Does the distributor turn when the engine is cranked. If I take this literally, he is asking if the "distributor turns" he is not asking if the rotor turns. Make absolutely certain the distributor is NOT turning; and,
(2) You responded: When I'm cranking the engine I can see the rotor move and it's pushing the points open and close. That's what is supposed to happen. But, the distributor should not be turning.

 

Aw, I see where that could get confusing. No, the distributor itself does not move, only the cam and rotor inside move when I am cranking the engine.

 

I did mean the rotor,
​​​and should have been more specific. Good to be precise.

 

I thought you may have meant rotor instead of distributor, just wanted to x2 check.

 

Where are you checking for spark? Check out of the coil into the cap using the coil wire. If no spark check it with another wire plugged into the coil.

 

I would like to see you double check the manner I test an IGN coil as stated below. You continually are stating you're testing the negative (-) terminal of the IGN coil. Please....perform this test as I described it previously on the positive (+) side of the IGN coil and report the results.

 

I am checking with an in-line ignition tester (see link below) attached from the center of the coil to the center of the distributor cap. I've also attached it at the spark plug and am not seeing any spark in either locations.

https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-a...t=spark+tester

 

Exactly where I was heading. But, let's test the positive (+) side of the IGN coil not the negative (-) side of the IGN coil. Follow the procedure I stated (above) using the positive (+) side of the IGN coil. If you do not have >10K ohms, the coil is bad. If you do have >10K ohms the IGN coil is good but as Sugar Bear is suggesting and where I'd like to test next, put the IGN coil wire on the IGN coil and measure the END of the IGN coil wire. IOW, don't hook up the IGN coil sire to the top of the distributor but check the ohms at the end of the IGN coil wire.

 

Test it the manner in which I stated twice now. Then, report the ohms.

 

I will check that this weekend. All the other times I've checked, I've taken it out of the car entirely so as not to get any interference. I will be sure to do the same for this method.

I'll also check to see if the wire is good via the second test above.

 

That's great. My concern at this point is validating the integrity of the IGN coil itself which is measured on the positive (+) terminal of the coil but you continually were stating you're measuring it on the negative (-) terminal of the IGN coil. And, when measuring w/ the IGN tester you bought, does the IGN tester actually "flash" when you are testing the IGN coil?

Review this video in detail.

 

BTW, no need to remove the IGN coil. You do however, need to have ALL wires disconnected from the IGN coil while testing for resistance (Ohms). Removing the IGN coil is unnecessary.