So my '76 Cutlass has been sitting for about a month with out being started. I tried starting it about 10 times over 15 minutes. Sometimes before it seemed like it needed to be cranked for a while before it'll get going. I pumped the gas twice all the way to engage the choke, and feathered the gas a little trying to start. I've even tried using starter fluid and it doesn't sound like it's trying to start at all. I can smell gas, so I'm pretty sure it's ignition related. It was running fine last time (with the exception of the blower for the HVAC quit blowing all together) and I've checked the fuses under the dash. Any tips on where/how to start trouble shooting?

 

See if you have spark before you do anything else. Disconnect a spark plug wire and hold it near the engine block (1/2" or so). Have someone crank it over. If you don't have spark jump the gap, that's a good place to start. Make sure the connector to the battery terminal on your distributor cap is connected. Also make sure the trio of wires from the distributor are connected to the coil. Other than that, you are looking at testing the coil, module, cap/rotor, etc.

 

Thanks! Exactly what I was looking for. I'll take a look here after dinner.

 

Please keep us posted! I love hearing success stories in troubleshooting.

 

LOL, I feel the same way. I will post up what ever outcome I get. I just had a second (complaining assistant/wife) to troubleshoot again, but no spark for sure. I had a quick look around the engine bay at night with a flashlight in the vicinity of the dizzy and didn't see anything out of place. I'll look at it again tomorrow in the light (it's night time here right now.)

 

I checked around the dizzy with a flashlight and didn't see anything disconnected other than the plug to what I am assuming is the washer pump on the fire wall which I reconnected. Any hints on what to attack with a multi-meter/test light from here? Also, where's the ignition coil? On top of the dizzy cap? The only thing I've done under the hood since it ran is remove the air filter cover assembly and set it to the side (with some hose still attached.) I'm assuming that's what bumped off the plug on the washer pump and maybe I hit something else in the course?

BTW just for background, I'm not new to cars, it's just the oldest car I have worked on is a turbo'd '93 nissan, so carbs and distributors are pretty new to me.

 

If it's a '76 it should have an HEI (huge cap with the wires spaced apart) distributor so the coil sits in the top of the cap. They made some remote coil HEI's but I don't think that was until the early 90's. There should be a 3 wire connector that comes from the base of the distributor and plugs into the cap. There is also one or two wires (depending on if you have a tach) connected next to them. I believe they say "BAT" (usually a red wire) and "TACH". With the key turned to "run", hook a test light or multimeter to the BAT wire and see if you have power.
If you don't, your problem is somewhere in your wiring (fusebox most likely). Look for any blown fuses, but also use a test light or meter and check both sides of them. I have had fuses that looked good but were not passing through voltage.
If you have voltage at the distributor, you probably have a bad module (located inside the dstributor) or coil. My bet would be the module. I have had 4 or 5 of those go bad over the years in HEIs and only 1 coil.
Hope this helps.
Keep us updated.

 

Not that it has any bearing on this problem, but I am correcting myself. I think the remote coil HEI actually started when GM developed the TPI engine. The large cap HEI wouldn't clear the injection manifold. I had an '88 IROC Camaro that had the remote coil one.

 

Okay, so when the key is in the "run" position I've got power in the fat "battery" wire, and two of the three wires going from the clip on the cap (next to the battery wire) have power. No spark though. Also, I put the tester on the rotor and got nothing, but it looked like the base of the rotor was sticking up in the air and it looked like some kind of button in the cap was supposed to push it down when the cap is installed, so maybe it wasn't supposed to be getting power.

So maybe replace the cap and rotor? Maybe I should look into "adjusting the points" whatever that is?

 

I'd go for the ignition module inside the distributor. It looks like this.

 

I had a similar problem a few months back. Before I gave up on the car all together and just parked it, it died on me on the side of the road. I had no spark. Turned out to be this module. Except my car would start and run for maybe 15-20 seconds when bone cold, then just quit. The module was about $20 us for a cheapo one, but it's a bit of a pain the change. The Cap and all have to come off and it's inside the distributor. It was a couple hour project, for me.

IF you end up replacing it, get one of the name brand ones.

 

I just ordered:

Bosch-Copper-Super+/Spark Plug Part Number: DR100 http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...artNumber=true

MSD/Ignition Cap and Rotor Part Number: 8416 http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Distributor-Cap-Rotor-Kit-Perform/_/N-9n9l3?filterByKeyWord=8416&fromString=search&isSea rchByPartNumber=true


(8) Bosch-Copper-Super+/Spark Plug Part Number: 7987 http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...artNumber=true




I think I know exactly where the ignition control module is---it's what the two powered wires that came out of the distributor cap terminal go into on the base of the dizzy, right? if so, does anybody have any tips for the install? Tutorial anywhere?

 

It's not that hard. I can swap one in is less that 10 minutes.

The cap comes off with the 4 twist-lock screws and then you pull the rotor. There are 2 bolts that hold the module in place. Remove those and then slightly pick up the module so you can unplug it. Then clean the mating surface of the old dielectric grease. MAKE SURE to COMPLETELY cover the bottom of the new one with the supplied grease that comes with it. Installation the the reverse of removal.

 

Doesn't sound too bad. I've already got the cap off. Does the rotor just pull up and off, or do I need to remove the two screws i saw?

One last one---what is "adjusting the points" and can I screw any specific "adjustment" up when I'm in there monkeying around with the rotor/ignition module? I just don't want to make this any worse.

 

You MUST remove the two screws to remove the rotor.

Your car does not have points and you won't screw any adjustments up with the cap and rotor off. There are no adjustments from the factory for HEI other than base timing.

 

Good deal, thanks. So don't twist the base of the distributor itself and short of snapping anything in half it's kinda idiot proof. Thanks

 

Well said and you're welcome!

 

X2 on what svnt442 said about putting the dielectric grease on the bottom of the module. It helps to transfer the heat from it to the distributor base. A friend of mine replaced one without it and the module burned out in a few days. The only other thing you might check while you are changing everything is to make sure the mechanical and vacuum advances are working. I have had problems with each. My wifes' LeMans drove great just putting around but was always really doggy when you got on it. It turned out the mechanical advance was frozen up so the timing was not advancing properly. My Cutlass had the opposite problem, it kept bogging and trying to backfire at low rpm because my vacuum advance wasn't working. Here's a couple of links (there's tons more too, just the first couple ones I came across).

http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/distcurve.html

http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/hei.htm

Let us know how it turns out.

 

you want "thermal joint compound" not dieletric grease under the module.
thermal joint compound is usually white, dieletric grease is clear. the two do not have the same properties. the dielectric grease is for the rubber "washer" inside the cap, coat both sides thinly and evenly. thermal joint compound can be purchased at an electronics supply/hobby store. you put a very thin, even layer on the bottom of the module where the aluminum of the module contacts the body of the distributor. tighten firmly and evenly, one screw, then the other until the two screws are evenly tightened. the thermal joint compound will fill the uneven gaps and squeeze out around the base of the module slightly.


bill

 

Thanks a ton for the help guys! I replaced everything above (accept for the spark plugs--hadn't gotten to them yet) and it's never fired up so quick. Seriously, it's always taken a long time, but now it starts quicker than my fuel injected Toyota!

It's does have a pretty high idle now (yes, even after warm up and I've tapped the gas which does slow it down a lot) so I probably need to figure that one out.

Anyways, thanks again for the help!!!

 

Glad it worked out.

 

Well, bringing this back from the dead, I think the module went out again. I power going into 2 of the 3 wires that go to the base of the dizzy. Both leads on the driver's side going into the module get power. Nothing on the other side. I should see power on the other side of the module with the ignition in "run", correct?

Damn I hate having to wait 2 weeks for parts. I'm ordering 2 of these buggers this time

 

It DOES sound like the module.

Was the replacement a "name brand," like Delco or Standard, or was it a "Brand X"?
A good quality replacement should last for many years.

You did clean off the area under the old one and put down new heat sink paste, right?

On a totally separate subject that has been eating at me:

What is a Skyline and why do they suck?
I have considered that this could be a reference to urban landscape art, but decided that it's got to be something else.

- Eric

 

The one I put on there before is the only one autozone sells which is Duralast IIRC. I ordered another one of those last night and I just ordered a "Standard" one from rockauto.com as a spare (actually, which ever shows up second will be the spare.) I did clean off the old area and used the provided thermal paste.

On my name, it's kind of tongue in cheek. I used to have a 600'ish hp Nissan Skyline last time I was over here in Okinawa. It one of the cars in the garbage The Fast and the Furious movies, but I didn't have a lot of choices over here for sports/muscle cars. Anyways, I had posted some pics/videos of it and I had a bunch of ricer nutswingers drooling all over it and having giant import vs. domestic fights in the comments section of my youtube page. I'm a domestic guy at heart (anything that goes fast though) and the ricers would get all cranky and sad when the guy with their "dream" car (me) would call them ricers and tell them they didn't know crap about real cars and going fast (half of them were 17 yr olds with Honda's.) One of my friends introduced me as "SkylinesSuck" in person to somebody who knew me just from the forums alone because I would talk so much smack on the Skyline nutswingers and the name just kinda stuck. I like the car and it was by far the fastest car I've ever built/owned, but it's not some mythical magical thing just because they saw it in a movie and don't sell them in the states. Anywho, sorry for that long rant. I freaking HATE ricers. I hope that answers the question though

 

Ahhhhh. It's a car. Got it.

Never heard of them.

Talk to me about an Auto Union, or an Allard, or a Healey and I'll know what you're talking about, but that one's a new one on me.

Thanks!

- Eric

 

Just a little input...I always carry a spare module. This seems to be the weak point for GM HEI. Mine went out in the paint shop...embarassing! Also, the center contact of the rotor can burn thru and lose spark.

 

Just for reference......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Skyline

and mine was the R32 body style.

Yeah, I ordered 2 this time and one will ride around with me in the glove box. It actually tried to leave me stranded at work the day before, but I got it started and made it home. It then ran for about 5 seconds the next day and died. Good thing it stopped before I made it half way to work. It's a pretty easy fix if you have the part though, so I'll play it safe from now on.

 

While you're waiting, look over your rubber vacuum lines - I'd be willing to bet one is off or cracked, causing that high idle, and a vacuum leak!

 

Yup, it was the ignition module again. I'll be carrying a spare from now on. BTW Rickman, I did have some cracked vacuum lines and that was causing the high idle but I fixed those last year the first time it wouldn't start. GTG now