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I own a '56 Ford Crown Victoria. Please keep your boos quiet. The guy I bought it from installed an Oldsmobile front bench seat with 6 way power. Not a split bench and no center fold down arm rest. Year of seat unknown. The seat quit working and it appears to be the transmission. The motor runs fine and one of the movement directions work. Since I don't know the year, I would prefer to send the transmission to somebody who can recognize where it came from and then fix it. Some blog sites do not allow email posting but I will post mine. jackgr@aol.com.
So drop me a line or reply here if you think you can help me out.
Hello Jack, Put up some pics and probably someone will recognize the seat and hopefully identify it and maybe someone will be able to help you- actually post some pics of your whole car- most of us love all old cars. Welcome to the site!!
If its from the mid-1960's into the mid-1970's the transmissions probably interchange. Are you sure its the transmission? I sold a power seat setup to a friend and it turned out one of the solenoids was bad. I pulled the part from an older setup that fit just fine. At some point you'll need to remove the seat to access the parts, once you do that you can test the power setup to verify where the problem is. John
Now that you have it out, you can try spinning the cables to be sure they all turn freely. That would eliminate a broken cable. Then you can put a jumper wire to each part of the plug to see if they will spin under power. That would test this part of the power system.
The system looks to be standard Mid-60’s GM big car 6 way. My guess is the system was in use from say 65 to 75 or so, variations mainly in the switch location and color.
Clean and regrease the tracks and raising jacks and as noted spin the cables by hand or makings with a socket on the end that will grip the squared off ends that go into the transmission. There’s only one motor so put power to it and see if it spins, usually they do. That leaves you with the transmission which I’ve never had to bad on me.
For replacement parts, check Cadillac, Olds, Buick, Pontiac and Chevy spruces. GM used this system all over the place for years. Boneyard may still have a few lying around. Good luck with your hunt and project.
Oh, in GM cars, this system drew enough amps (like 30) that they often put it behind a relay. If you don’t have big fat wires and 30 amps to it, that may be part of your problem.
If you hear a click when you activate the switches the solenoids are working. If motor runs but no action usually either a broken drive cable or bad dog gear in the transmission. As pointed out the magic of these things is they were used in all GM carlines for years. Usually the only difference is the style of the electrical plugs.
Great suggestion!! It worked when we removed it from the car 2 years ago. Before we put it back in, we put it on a bench and tested it. It "partially" worked. We used a couple of #18 wires 8-10 ft long to attach to the battery. I'll retest using jumper cables or something substantial.
I just found a complete mechanism on Ebay fully refurbished for $375 and I bought it within hours of it being listed. If, in the end I get mine working, I'll offer it for sale at a reasonable price.
Last edited by jacklinmichigan; September 2nd, 2020 at 10:30 AM.
I can't find your email, and I checked my spam folder. I did find my log-on problem. I misspelled my frequently used user name at login. I think I solved my problem. I bought a completely refurbished system from a guy on Ebay. If I can't get it to work, I'll be posting again.
Hi Folks
I realize this post is over one month old, but I am hoping members with this expertise are still subscribed to the topic and can help.
Mine is a 66 Toronado with 6-way power seat. It has always been stuck in the rear horizontal back position. I have started to tackle the problem by taking the rails off the seat, cleaning them up (notice the leakage.)
I then reapplied a Lubriplate equivalent to the vertical drive gear only.
Using a cordless drill and the appropriate size spare cable(s) I exercised the horizontal and both tilt servos/actuators on both rails. They operated fine and cycled travel several times to all limits. None were stuck.
I followed the directions in the 1966 Fisher Service Manual (FSM) and made sure both rails are in "Phase."
The transmission is working for all 6 cables, coupler is good and the solenoid is working as well as all positions on the switch.
When I installed the seat on the rails it was in the full forward & up position per FSM pg. 10-7 b. Every direction worked until the seat went to the full back horizontal position and is now stuck again. The cable is struggling to move the horizontal actuator.
Originally Posted by rocketraider
If you hear a click when you activate the switches the solenoids are working. If motor runs but no action usually either a broken drive cable or bad dog gear in the transmission. As pointed out the magic of these things is they were used in all GM carlines for years. Usually the only difference is the style of the electrical plugs.
Because the cables are short and the motor/transmission is bolted to the seat, I have not been able to detach them and check to see if the rails will operate with the switch and the seat removed. I could try it, but don't think it will prove anything. It's like something is too weak.
And in everything I have read, GM did not make a limit provision for any direction. It seems the motor/transmission/cable just JAMB the actuators until they stop or possibly trip a breaker.
So, could it be that because I did not add any Lubriplate to the actuators that it does not have enough UMPF to make the vertical actuator return forward?
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
I’ve been through a bunch of these actuators over the years. Mostly what they need is a good cleaning & lubrication. They live under the seat where everybody drops stuff and dust settles and water sometimes gets in. Multiply that by 50 years or so & you have some challenges to these devices operating smoothly.
I think you’re right, I don’t think the power system has limits, I’m pretty sure they just click with no motion and you know you’re at the extremes of the travel. In an Olds these seat tracks are powered off the power window / power seat circuit through the relay which usually lives behind the driver’s kick panel to provide high amperage power to voltage thirsty devices on switch demand.
If you have a Makita or electric nut driver, a bit of just the right size can drive the plastic cable connections as a test-bench thing. Very helpful in “phasing” the tracks and jackscrews and moving fresh grease all around these parts that need it. The cables have square ends which drive these seats just like mid-60’s Olds speedometers. I’ll bet it’s the same size square, but I don’t know.
There are 2 different elements to these seat tracks: the forward/rear motion toothed track; and the nearly identical front/rear jack screws. The toothed track is what allows the fore/aft motion of the seat as a whole. It’s just a toothed track operated by a gear, nothing fancy. The only parts to be somewhat careful of are the 8(?) nylon spacers which isolate the seat from the track and allow it to slide inside its U channel.
I’ve think about the front & rear devices as jackscrews. The big difference between front & rear is the angle of the drive cable connection. The tops of these screws are keyed rectangular so they have an orientation into the spring clips.
The jack screws are removable, but before you tear into them with your nutdriver from inside the forward/rear track, take a bunch of pictures about how they go back together.
When you get them apart you’ll find a bunch of dried up lithium grease and a gear set that translates the spinning motion of the drive cables into vertical motion on the jackscrews. That all needs to be cleaned out & lubricated to get it working. Not surgically clean, but the cleaner you get it, the smoother the action will be.
For cleaning (after your pictures) I’d leave all the mechanical metal pieces in carb cleaner overnight. Or Simple Green for a few days. Or a few cans of Brakleen for a few minutes. I sometimes use old toothbrushes to really scrub them out. But don’t chemically immerse anything that’s not metal — no nylon, no plastic, no electricals. You’re aiming to get the gears, housings, tooth tracks and metal parts clean so they don’t bind when you use them. Don’t expect 50 year old plastic to survive caustic chemicals.
Once the metal parts are clean, it’s time for re-lubrication. I’ve used brake/suspension grease over the years on these things, but have just gotten some AmSoil synthetic grease which is supposed to be better. I wouldn’t recommend lithium grease like the factory did because it dries out and always seems to attract dirt. WD-40 is a no-no. Conceptually, you’re aiming at grease that will be thick enough to live in there and provide lubrication over a long time. Lithium grease is probably at the bottom of that list in 2020. I guess grease has come a long way since the ‘60’s.
On reassembly, the regreased jack screws go in first, and you finish up with the toothed track, since the jack screw retention hex screws live _inside_ the toothed track. Once you get all the (8?) screws back into place, set the jackscrews all to the same height to “phase” them. It might be convenient to set them all at max height just for reinstallation access. If you do that, it will also allow you to compare the max height for all 4 screws and confirm that they’re actually the same height vs. the “feet” of the track (aka floorboard) or vs. the bottom of the tooth track.
If the tooth track nylon spacers have damage or blemishes, lightly sand them smooth with 800 grit or finer paper. Also clean out the channel they slide in real well with degreaser, then re-lubricate it. You want the spacers smooth, but not undersized. If the spacers get undersized, seat movement will be sloppy. I have no idea where to get spares.
If I recall correctly, there are some miscellaneous pivot points & maybe a spring in there too. If so, be sure to grease or lubricate anything like a pivot shaft or something that’s supposed to rotate. In your picture above, I’m talking about the pivot shafts in the middle where the arm goes up and down.
The next trick is that those clips on top with the nuts that retain them are spring steel. They need to pivot / slip on their mounts for the screws to work as the seat angle from front/rear up/down changes when you hit the switch. When the front or rear of the seat goes up or down, these slip forward and backward just a bit. Two points here - 1) grease the underside so they slip/slide on their jack screw mounts; 2) torque them tight enough to stay, but not so tight they impede motion.
Anyway that’s the mechanical part in a nutshell. Those little “ears” on the front & rear with the 1/4” holes are for attaching trim to hide the metal guts we’re talking about. You can sometimes find the plastics (Madrid grain) on eBay or just zip tie some matching carpet in if you like.
They go THUD and the dome light stays the dim it is when it's running when they hit the ends. It's instinctive to let go at that point.
Yea I agree, but all it takes is a person with a lack of senses to hold it in and burn something up. Just seems jambed/stuck. Luckily the circuit breaker or fuse didn't pop.
These are great instructions & plenty of detail Chris, Thanks for posting them. I have never had one apart, but live & learn. Pictures are key as you said. My plan is to get into it next week and I'll let you know how it turns out. I just came across an outside COF article that recommends the same procedure you and 4RF suggested. Like everything else they have to be maintained. Catch some of the prices for refurbished setups and I know I can do it myself.
August 30th, 2020, 04:14 PM
