bigoldscruiser

Here are the results of an interesting test!!



Machinist’s Workshop Mag™ recently published some information on various penetrating oils that I found very interesting. Some of you might appreciate this. The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break out torque on rusted nuts.

They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist. They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a “scientifically rusted” environment.

*Penetrating oil .......... Average load*
None ........................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ............... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix...............53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix was a “home brew” mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the “home brew” was better than any commercial product in this one particular test.

Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results.

Note also that “Liquid Wrench” is almost as good as “Kroil” for about 20% of the price.

Steve from Godwin-Singer says that ATF-Acetone mix is the best and you can also use ATF- lacquer thinner 50 - 50 mix.

Lady72nRob71

Very interesting! I wonder how they did this...

joe_padavano

Did you really mean "subjective" test? If so, that's about as accurate as the butt dyno. If you meant "objective" test, then that's different. In any case, how did they verify that each nut and bolt was rusted equally? Did they somehow measure the amount of penetrating oil that was applied in each case? Waited the same amount of time? Etc, etc. What was the sample size? One of each is about as statistically valid as the samples used for old car price guides.

bigoldscruiser

I didn't write any of this so I don't know anything except as it is written. I imagine if you look up the Mag it will provide further answers.

MDchanic

No, but you were happy to post what to you is utter hearsay as though it were gospel truth, without confirming any of it.

And thus an internet myth is born.

In fact, if you go here, you will find that The Home Shop Machinist and Machinist's Workshop did, in fact publish an article in its Apr-May 2007 edition (Volume 20, No.2), entitled Testing Different Types of Penetrating Oils, by Lloyd Bender.

You cannot access the article itself, but if any members here have any links to it, that would be appreciated.

- Eric

Octania

Agreed that "subjective" [how I feel about it] probably should have been "objective" [unbiased].

Also, "pounds" is no way to measure breakaway force, unless you are shearing the fastener, in which case no lube will be needed. Turning force is measured in units of force x distance: ft-lbs, lb-ft, in-lbs, N-m, mg-lightyears, whatever... but not "pounds". As an engineer, I can't let that one slide.

Now, in my own subjective tests covering several years of working on real, rusted Michigan exhaust bolts and whatnot- not that candyass laboratory rust or what they call "rust" in Arizona and Texas... I will say this

1) ANY oil like substance is better than none. There's no one magic material that will instanly loosen any rusted fastener.

2) agreed that ATF/acetone ["voodoo juice] is superbly effective, inexpensive, and readily available. I do keep some on hand.

3) They totally left out HEAT which is far and away the single most important aspect for breaking loose a seriously rusted fastener. If the results matter, like it's an F head that you want to save, not a cracked J head on the way to the scrap pile, then use heat. See my recent tutorial elsewhere here. With flames and penetrating lubes is of course the inherent risk of fire. Such is the price. Ditto for working the fastener back-n-forth and not just one direction. Oh and let's not forget that an IMPACT tool will do things that slow steady application of force will just never do. All these things matter, yet were ignored. Therefore, a pretty poor presentation of [overall] how to remove rusted fasteners, and a very unscientific presentation of the differences in "penetrating lubricants."

4) Candle wax- with the proper level of heat to liquify it- is as good as or perhaps better than voodoo juice.

oldcutlass

How long will acetone last in ATF before it evaporates? I've read some of the miracle stories on the internet but have not tried it myself. I have the ingredients here in my garage, maybe if presented the opportunity, I'll give it a shot.

Yes, Octania, I don't think most of Texas meets the criteria of true rust. It has to be imported here from the snow belt or from the coast.

rocketraider

I remember that article from 2007 and being amazed then that Liquid Wrench was rated higher than PB Blaster, because my experience was always the opposite, and as bad as PB Blaster stinks it ought to do something.

We use Kroil by the 5-gallon bucket at the powerplant, and all of us are guilty of spiriting some out once in a while. I myself have had mixed results using Kroil around the house.

We used to have some kind of Navy-spec stuff out there that would break about anything loose, but I guess as usual, if it worked well they don't make it any more.

Rickman48

Chrysler had some 'heat valve penetrating oil' that someone turned me on to.
One can lasted about 20 years - found nothing to compare it to - best I ever used.
Don't know if it's still available, though.