henryk8398

Hi all,

A few weeks ago, I replaced the steering box in my 83 Ninety-Eight with a Lares rebuild. They seemed to have pretty favorable reviews for their products. The good news is that the wander at higher speeds and tendency to pull to the right have improved considerably.

The bad news is that there is some moaning that occurs mostly when turning left at low speeds or at a stop. It doesn't happen on every left turn, but when it does, there is some noise/vibration that seems to travel up the steering column. Every so often, I get the same noise/vibration when turning right.

I bled the system per the GM CSM. I replaced both the pressure and return hose with delco parts. I called Lares tech support and spoke to Doug. He suggested that there still might be some air the in the system. He suggested I disconnect the pitman arm and work the steering back and forth with the engine off. So I did that and added a little fluid. After that, I started the engine and did the same thing before connecting the pitman arm. I've driven a few hundred miles since installing. While the condition has improved, it's still happening and I'm not only annoyed, but also worried that the unit might fail. That's the last thing I need!

The only thing I noticed that might be a problem is a slight kink to the steel part of the return line at the box. Could that be restricting some fluid going back to the pump and causing noise? I also checked the front end and saw no bent/damaged components or anything out of the ordinary.

Any ideas on what to do next? Is it time to ask Lares for a replacement box? Could there still be air in the system or perhaps some dirt? I've replaced steering boxes in the past and have never had a problem like this persist? Could the PS pump be too "weak" now for a rebuilt pump?

I appreciate any suggestions. Thanks in advance!

Lady72nRob71

These systems are pretty easy to bleed, as long as the pump did not gulp air while under load. If that happens I think you are supposed to reset a poppet valve somewhere.
MAke sure there are no leaks in the return line, where it could be sucking air in.

Olds64

If you're sure you've bled the system correctly I would replace the line with a kink in it. That should be reasonably cheap and it can't make the problem worse. If it still makes noise then you go from there.

MDchanic

Sure sounds like there's air in it.

When you say "kink," how kinked, exactly?

Photos?

- Eric

oldstata

X2 Possible air in pump ? I am overly OCD when it comes to this, watched way to many techs start engines with out bleeding and have growling pumps gears or racks .

henryk8398

There is a kink on one side, but it's not severe. It could be worse on the inside of the line. I will take a picture during the day and post. I think I will replace it as a precaution.

henryk8398

Ok, I guess the bend is worse than I thought. It sure helped to see it with natural light.


I'll see if I can find a new one and change it out. At that point, I'll have to bleed it again. Hopefully that's the end of it. I'll report back when I get a chance. Thanks!

1979 hurst olds

There is your problem.That is a bad kink.

henryk8398

I hope so. I'll replace and let everyone know what happens.

MDchanic

Yup... A bit too kinky even for my taste...

- Eric

Olds64

I hope replacing that line fixes the problem.

henryk8398

Update:

I ordered a return line fitting and installed it. It wasn't kinked like I though, but there was a dent underneath not visible in the pictures. I bled the system per CSM and drove it around. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the problem went away, but it does seem different and slightly improved. When parked and turning the wheel back and forth, it seems fine, but when initiating a low-speed left turn, it still moans a causes the steering wheel to vibrate. I didn't notice anything with right turns this time. I'm going to recheck fluid level and drive it again tomorrow.

If it persists, that leads to three possibilities:

1. There is still air in the system.
2. The steering box is defective or was not adjusted correctly. I could reinstall the old box to test that theory, but I'd rather not go there if I don't have to!
3. It's a stretch, but maybe the steering pump isn't putting enough pressure for the replacement box? Maybe it's weak?


Either way, that's enough for tonight. Time for a cold beverage.

Olds64

I wouldn't think a power steering pump could be "weak." Use a mechanics stethescope and listen to the bearing in the power steering pump. It should be a uniform "whirring" sound. You can compare the sound to your alternator and water pump. It's hard to explain what a bad pump would sound like... I can only describe it as a bunch of rocks tumbling around in a dryer. You will definitely be able to tell if the pump is going bad. If you don't have a mechanic's stethescope you can always use a long screw driver. Hold one side on the power steering pump and press the other end up against your ear

MDchanic

Or against the bone just behind your ear.

- Eric

henryk8398

I didn't think so. Like I suggested, a stretch. I will listen to the pump regardless to see if there is any noise. I'm going to try to bleed the system again. If it persists, I think I'll be putting the old gearbox back in. If the problem goes away, I think that will be enough to convince Lares to send a replacement or take it back. I hope to take care of that this week.

jag1886

You could have air trapped in the flow valve, it is in the pump, to correct the problem you remove the pressure hose, take a small pick and insert it into the back of the pump, the flow valve is a ball bearing with a spring above it, you just push it in about 6 times and that lets the trapped air out. Also check that the clamp on the return line is tight, it can look ok and not leak but it can still suck air in.
Ask me how I know, been there.

texxas

The steering gear box on my 67 Cutlass had the moan at low speeds when turning left just as you describe. I could feel vibration in the steering wheel so much I thought the bearings in the column were bad, but I'd just rebuilt the column and was sure it was good. My steering gear box was original and worn out. It had so much slop I replaced it instead of rebuilding it. I'd say the problem is with your rebuilt gear box but I'm no expert. Just wanted to point out I had the same symptoms and what I did to eliminate the noise. Good luck getting it fixed correctly.

henryk8398

I think that's what Rob suggested in an earlier reply. I'll give that a shot and double check the clamps, too. Thanks!

henryk8398

If doing what jag suggested doesn't work, the next step is to swap back the old gearbox. Thanks!

henryk8398

Update,

I replaced both hose clamps for the return line with larger, wider clamps and test drove. It seems a little better, but I don't think it's fixed. While replacing the clamps, I noticed some fluid around one of the crimped ends of the high-pressure line. I'm going to run the engine with the driver's side on a ramp and see if the line is leaking. The line is new AC-Delco, but you never know with the questionable quality of replacement parts these days.

henryk8398

UPDATE:

Finally had a chance to tinker a bit. I raised the car at watched the pressure line while the engine was running. No leaks, so I disconnected it from the pump and used a small pick to push the valve on the back of the pump about 6 times per jag's post. I put everything back together and worked the steering wheel back and forth about 50 times with the engine off and front wheels lifted. I then followed the CSM procedure on bleeding the system.

I only gone one very faint moan out of the system. A few more turns around the neighborhood and it stopped. I think I'm going to call it good!

Thanks everyone for your help!

Next step, put the other annoyances to bed (pulls to the left when braking, belt squeal, find the vacuum leak in the HVAC system, etc)...