scrappie

I am looking for the two engine pulleys for a 1970 442 w-30 4 spd. (3:91) I am trying to put this car back together and all I had to start with is the block with power steering pump. I have found what I believe to be the correct 404847 "X" water pump I am now trying to find the correct crank and water pump pulley to match. I have a temporary alternator in place also to line up pulleys.
Please correct me if I'm wrong: I believe this car was equipped with HD cooling(w-30 4spd, 3:91) so it would get the water pump for ac car (404847) even though there is no ac: clutch fan, shroud and 4 core radiator. I need to find the water pump pulley and crank pulley to match. I am looking for both two groove pulleys correct? I have seen pictures of a car with HD cooling and no ac with three grooves but the third is not used so I think I am looking for two groove pulleys?
I have a box of pulleys that I am trying to match and some stampings on these crank pulleys : S (2 groove) the rest are 3 groove with stamps S, KB, KS
Water pump pulleys all 2 groove with stamps: KN, KM, and KE
Are any of these correct and if not what are the correct ones and where do I find them?
Supercars and fusicks list some but are out of some too. According to their catalog I may be looking for the KN for water pump and I don't know stamp for crank pulley? What do you guys think? Any help or guidance appreciated.

2blu442

Here's what my reference shows, others can confirm or correct if they have something different.

Crankshaft pulley, 2 groove, KJ 405459
Water Pump pulley, 2 groove, KM 405461




John

scrappie

OK thx for your input, if thats the case I might be halfway there because I do have a KM. I just need to check if that lines up with my current power steering and alt?

RocketDevo

John is correct with his info.

scrappie

Thanks guys, Im getting conflicting info whether the pulleys have two or three grooves. I would think two grooves because why would there be an extra groove if not used unless GM would just use the same pulley as an ac car to save $?
Alternator belt uses grooves around water pump and crank pulley (1st groove) Power steering pump also uses water pump and crank pulley (2nd groove)
Thats it right? or am I mistaking?
When looking at an original 70 w-30 4spd car I would think you see an engine with pulleys full and no extra grooves?
If someone has an original w-30 4spd could they take a peak and chime in possibly?
Thx

2blu442

Not my car, but here's a link to pictures of a 1970 W30 4 speed car. Its a survivor so I believe it has the correct pulleys, both 2 groove. John

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...06_2016-a.html

scrappie

Thanks John, that helps a lot.
Looking at those pictures,I see two grooves on both pulleys but I do not see a clutch fan and shroud? Are those things supposed to be there?

70Post

scrappie - I just posted on your other thread in this section....take a look.

My442

The build sheet calls out the correct stuff, if you have it.

My 442 has A/C and H/D cooling and P/S.

Build sheet calls out the following:

Fan Pulley - KF
P/S Pulley - KH
Crank Pulley - KC
Radiator - EC
Fan Clutch - C6-OR

Hope this helps.

scrappie

Thx P, it does help a bit but your car has ac this car does not. Your pulleys would have three grooves for the ac compressor where mine would not otherwise those pulleys on my car would have an empty groove which I wouldn't think is right?

Thx for responding Patton

My442

Correct.

No A/C means a 2 groove lower pulley

Here is what my assembly manual says for a W30 without A/C:

Crank Pulley - KJ
P/S Pulley - KG
Water Pump - KM

With H/D cooling, add in a shroud, 6 blade fan, and clutch fan.

scrappie

Thats was my thinking until some other stampings and number of grooves messed me up.

2blu442

The car I posted pictures of had a 3 row radiator and no shroud. The fiberglass flex fan was not original.

70Post

Correct pulleys for what? 3.42 gears? 3 row radiator?

That car is just ONE example of a number of variations these could have been ordered with (sans the flex fan.....that's an aftermarket piece as you mention above). Appears to be very low optioned....no fan shroud, no power steering, etc. so it's partially representative of what a low optioned '70 W30 could have.

I'm still thinking:

>a non-AC '70 W30 with the HD COOLING option would have come with the 3 row water pump ("KF") and crank ("KC") pulleys

>a non-AC '70 W30 with the VO1 HD Radiator option would have come with the 2 row water pump ("KM") and crank ("KJ") pulleys

If so then the question for the OP becomes - "Do I go for the VO1 Heavy Duty Radiator option or instead go "all in" and go with the HD Cooling option?".

To me, if you're gonna eat at the buffet fill up your plate.

2blu442

The present owner inherited the car from his Mom. She was a school teacher and loved the car. I know its a factory 4 speed W30 car, I crawled under and verified its not a W27 but don't know the gears. I was surprised to see the 3 row radiator and top plate without holes to mount a shroud. The overall condition and appearance of the car lead me to believe its pretty original... except for that green fan! Do you think a non-AC 4 speed W30 car with different gears would have had different pulleys on it?

2blu442

OK, my reference didn't show the option with the 3 groove pulleys. But I haven't been around as many W30's as you have Patton so your information is likely more accurate. John

70Post

2Blu442 said:

"I was surprised to see the 3 row radiator and top plate without holes to mount a shroud."

I've seen a few of them but I also live down here in the "heat belt" where local cars were typically ordered with AC so those are a bit more common here VS. the non-AC cars. That, however, is changing somewhat down here with the internet and more interstate transactions...ie-folks are bringing in northern, out-of-state cars, etc cars as the "classic car shopping mall" is now nation-wide (and world-wide).

FWIW - plenty of these low-option, base level W cars get "optioned up" when they go through a resto....folks change and add all kinds of options including 4 row radiators, etc. So, the example you show is definitely becoming a rarer sight. Gotta love those survivor type cars!

I don't know if my info is 100% accurate on the pulleys or not.....that's why I keep posting on Scrappie's two threads in this section.

RocketDevo

A 3:42 gear ratio W30 from the factory came standard with no fan shroud. It did have a clutch fan though.
A W30 using the 404847 water pump that did not have AC used the "KM" 2 groove water pump pulley only.
The V01 mandatory option for W30's with 3:91 gears received all the same items as the HD cooling option Y72.
The only difference between the two was the rad tag code.
The V01 got the "EC" rad tag code and the Y72 HD cooling option got the "ED" rad tag code. They were however essentially identical radiators.
The only difference was the "ED" rad tag code had "CH" on the passenger side tank. The "EC" rad tag code passenger side tank had "CI"
They both had the exact same transmission cooler number "74"
hope this helps.

scrappie

Helps a lot thx Devon! Its all coming together now

2blu442

There was a lot of information shared in this thread! Did you find the pulleys you needed?

scrappie

Yes indeed there was a lot of info.
I came to conclusion I need KM (water pump) and KJ for( crank). I was able to find a KM pulley locally and still need the KJ. Both pulleys are reproduced and I will probably just buy a repop KJ unless I come across one which I heard are more common.
Lot of help from people here.