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I would get the new 4 row saddles and put them in the correct spots I believe this is the issue there should be no flange bending at all I believe the 3 core saddles are positioned to have the rad as close to the fan as possible . I also believe for you the option of an aluminum radiator with the same dimensions as the 2/3 core might be best as you seem a little leery of doing a few mods? Just thinking out loud no offense meant
None taken, definitely. I'm lacking a place to work on my car for long periods of time (i.e. a garage), that's the main hesitation to fabbing. Starting to think there may be no easy or cheap way out though.
So an update for everyone who's been offering help and support. You all may know I was having some ignition issues also, that thread got linked into this one when Joe pointed out to me that my thermal vacuum system was not hooked up, the tie to that comes in a minute.
You guys may remember I put my old rad back in after not being able to get the $59 rad in. In that process I replaced my fan clutch as Joe recommended which was a good move, the new one definitely has a lot less free play. While I had the old rad out I flushed it well, lots of crap came out and I could see the scale buildup inside of it so I decided to get the AutoZone rad and just return it if it didn't fit without mods.
Then Thursday my brother arrived in town for the weekend, and he really wanted to ride in it and I thought it would be good to run some flush stuff through the whole system anyway, so I put it all back together with new belts, hoses, and fan clutch, put the flush chemicals in and made some short drives to let the flush stuff do its thing.
So late Saturday afternoon I had one LAST errand in mind before the planned Sunday rad swap, and when leaving a stop sign, the car began stuttering and hesitating badly, which it was doing a little bit anyway, my brother noticed it right away, and usually it would just hiccup and go, but this time it wouldn't quit stuttering and backfiring, and luckily I was only a half mile from home so I turned around and headed back home but then it just quit; boom, dead.
Luckily my brother was there, so we got our Cajun tow truck on (my 4Runner with a strap) and got it home. Well guess what? That stuck distributor was now moving freely and the timing was waaay off. I gave it a quarter turn and lucked out by getting it close enough to right and it started right up.
So then I was back to the dwell/timing task again which luckily I am now very familiar with, but once I loosened up the distributor hold down clamp and the car was warmed up the distributor wouldn't budge again!
Isn't that odd? It moved very easily at first, but once the car was warmed up it wouldn't budge! And I couldn't understand how it got so out of whack anyway, the hold down clamp was tight and it didn't move until I loosened it. (I had been drenching it with PB Blaster and decided to see if it had worked)
I ran out of time last night and figured I'd give it a whirl tonight with it totally cool and see what happens. Hopefully I can get the dwell/timing dialed in and get back to the rad task, which had to get moved back in the priority list.
I've got the thermal vacuum kit which I'm going to set up after setting the dwell/timing, but am finding the diagram a little hard to follow. If anyone has a picture of what it should look like that would be super helpful.
By far my biggest need right now is any advice on the now stuck again distributor though. Has anyone ever heard of a dist sticking when the car is hot like that? If so, please let me know how to deal with that. Also, I can't understand how the car got so out of timing when the clamp was good and tight. I thought maybe the points being so new may have caused that, like maybe the were just getting broken in and needed to be readjusted?
Quick update, with the car ice cold the distributor moved freely and I was able to get the dwell and timing set, and with a few degrees move advance as Eric suggested.
While cleaning up afterwards, I had a minute to unpack my new AutoZone "direct replacement" radiator, it is IDENTICAL to the $59 one we all bought from Rock Auto, so it'll be going back to AZone tomorrow.
I would get the new 4 row saddles and put them in the correct spots I believe this is the issue there should be no flange bending at all I believe the 3 core saddles are positioned to have the rad as close to the fan as possible . I also believe for you the option of an aluminum radiator with the same dimensions as the 2/3 core might be best as you seem a little leery of doing a few mods? Just thinking out loud no offense meant
Eddie do you know where I could get those saddles? Although I would prefer to just replace my rad with one just like it, I am finding that finding one is not so easy and thinking maybe I should look at what it would cost to get the different saddles and all and go with my $59 option.
John,
Did the rad come with any Styrofoam? Or do you have any of the plastic type foam?
I put a Be Cool rad in my 76 I will get a pic up here after the weekend to show you what I did. I don't have the car with me all week.
I removed the lower saddles in the cradle with an air chisel, you could pound them out with a hammer as well they are only riveted in. One rivet in the center.
Then make saddles out of the Styrofoam no need to worry about them moving around make sure you make them tall enough for a squish factor.
The upper rad support plate, you should be able to cut the rubber mount back to fit, if not take the rubber out, cut the Styrofoam the same way leaving the formed saddle alone, it will form into the Styrofoam
to the original saddle while you cut to fit the rad tank.
I used the black plastic Styrofoam that came in my DUI Distributor box to make rad saddles in my 76 for my Be Cool Rad. I ran the car last summer and this summer with no issues. The Styrofoam can take the heat.
Eddie do you know where I could get those saddles? Although I would prefer to just replace my rad with one just like it, I am finding that finding one is not so easy and thinking maybe I should look at what it would cost to get the different saddles and all and go with my $59 option.
You can now buy repros of the saddle brackets and isulators for the the four-row core radiator to convert a three-row top plate and core support. I got a set from USA Parts Supply but most of the Olds specialty vendors sell them now. You do have to spot weld them in place on the core support and top plate.
The HD cooling cars used the long-snout A/C water pump with matching pulleys. These are not the same as the non-A/C pulleys. You can probably get by with the original non-A/C water pump and pulley set.
Just another question does anybody have a picture of a factory correct 4 core plate? I saw this at the Parts Place
is this correct for a 1969? I know I could modify the top plate as shown, but I was thinking if this is correct why now, and a picture of the shroud would be good too I know someone said they are the same, but Mine is cracked and if I can't find a reasonable used part I would grab a replacement part.
I'd be in on that also!! If it works for a '70 also that is. I'm much more comfortable just getting the parts as opposed to fabbing and all, I don't know how to weld either so this would be great to just get the items I need this way.
John it is only the top portion you will still need to get the two proper size saddles for the bottom, these could be screwed in with self tapping screws into the core support if you don't want to weld.
Right, those are the Inline Tube pieces you posted, right? What about the side brackets? Those are the ones I really had trouble with, the flanges are bent inward in such a way that it makes the channel the rad should slide down into at least a half inch too narrow.
Right, those are the Inline Tube pieces you posted, right? What about the side brackets? Those are the ones I really had trouble with, the flanges are bent inward in such a way that it makes the channel the rad should slide down into at least a half inch too narrow.
The "side brackets" are part of the core support. You aren't going to change those.
Is that not something I can replace with a core support meant for a thicker rad?
Sure. How many hundred dollar bills do you want to blow on this project?
Sorry, John, but you continue to take the most difficult and expensive path possible on what should be a very simple project. If you go waaaaaay back to post #29 on the first page of this marathon thread, you will see that I recommended that this may be the one time that an aluminum radiator might be the best choice. You can get an aftermarket aluminum that fits your current core support and cools as well as a stock four row. You chose to go another way. Your money, your call.
Joe, I appreciate all of your help, but so far I've only purchased the $59 radiator and the $194 rad from AutoZone that was supposed to be an exact fit. It wasn't, so I took it back, and am back to being out only $59. (In fact it was the exact same Spectra that we got for $59).
My options are limited due to the lack of a garage and by the fact that I don't own a lot of tools that people need to fab things. Therefore I am exploring what it would cost to replace things over fabbing. I agree this should be easy, but it's not. That's just the reality of it as evidenced by the number of people participating in this thread. I see someone has started another thread since I started this one, but he's asking the same questions. It's just not as simple as it seems like it should be, that is often the case in this hobby in my experience.
PS - this would indeed be a simple task if in fact the parts houses were accurate with their claims of "exact replacement". When they describe their parts as such, I'm finding that that means nothing
My options are limited due to the lack of a garage and by the fact that I don't own a lot of tools that people need to fab things.
Which is exactly why I suggested the drop-in aftermarket aluminum option. It may be $300, but you would have been done two weeks ago. As for the misinformation, get used to it.
This may be the one time when an aftermarket aluminum makes sense. The car is set up for a three row radiator. The BBO apparently is a swap. Short of changing the radiator saddles for a four-row, the aftermarket aluminum will fit the stock saddles and provide the added cooling of a four row.
This post gave me the solution I needed 3 weeks ago?
What is "the BBO?...."
Which aluminum radiator? Where? There's a thousand of them out there, and as you have gotten used to, the product descriptions can't be relied upon.
Get the Griffin Dominator for the A body, aluminum with two big 1.25" cores and should out cool just about any rad. It is just over $350, your choice. The exact fit ones are over double that price and many are not exact fit from the reviews.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; Jun 30, 2016 at 07:21 AM.
That was my question also Eddie. I know it has to be different to accommodate the $59 Spectra that a number of us purchased. That one will not fit with the core supports I have in mine
Quick update, with the car ice cold the distributor moved freely and I was able to get the dwell and timing set, and with a few degrees move advance as Eric suggested.
While cleaning up afterwards, I had a minute to unpack my new AutoZone "direct replacement" radiator, it is IDENTICAL to the $59 one we all bought from Rock Auto, so it'll be going back to AZone tomorrow.
Check it out:
I thought the rock auto one had the extra tube. Did you already cut it off?
No, they are both there, Rock auto is the one with the block off plug on it (top of pic), but you can see it on the AZ as well, just doesn't have the plug on it
No, they are both there, Rock auto is the one with the block off plug on it (top of pic), but you can see it on the AZ as well, just doesn't have the plug on it
Thanks for the addition photo. Makes much more sense now.
I'm not sure why this is still an issue. To swap a 4 core in you just need to buy a 4 core radiator plate and new saddles with cushions. You can get them from Inline Tube for about $170 maybe cheaper is you shop around online. The top plate works for 69-72 cars. Chisel or grind off your old saddles in the bottom of the core support. take the new ones and weld them in the correct place, or drill holes and use rivets to hole in place or drill a hole and use sheetmetal screws. There is no difference in the core supports just the top plates and saddles. You may have to change waterpump and pulleys due the difference of distance in the fan from radiator.(though I doubt many do this) Or you can buy an aluminum radiator that fits your current saddles for around $200 on ebay(Champion I believe). If you go back to my post I showed you an aluminum radiator from Autozone that should fit right into your current saddles A161 for $99 before any discounts they are running. You may have to run hose adapters since the top inlet is smaller. At this point your best bet would be the Autozone radiator and just selling the 4 core one you are having issues installing.
Magma that was my understanding exactly I just couldn't figure why John couldn't get a 4 core to fit in the channel it's the exact same as the autozone rad I personally started wondering if the rad supports are different I never heard of that but I'm not an expert thanx for the confirmation
As Joe said, this may be the time to use aluminum radiator. Sounds like you know Joe well and you have no readily available way to change the saddles. You have to find out if it's cheaper to pay someone to change the saddles or buy the aluminum. I've never met Joe but respect his knowledge. Follow it before you run out of summer to drive that ride.
is this correct for a 1969? I know I could modify the top plate as shown, but I was thinking if this is correct why now, and a picture of the shroud would be good too I know someone said they are the same, but Mine is cracked and if I can't find a reasonable used part I would grab a replacement part.
The man is so helpful.
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