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State law can supercede Federal, Marijuana laws for example. I do find this bizaare...
But that's just it - it can't. Constitutionally and practically, Federal law always prevails.
It's just that the Feds have chosen to "not see" blatant (as in big signs and advertising) violations with big penalties.
The easy solution to setting the "clock" back to zero, is to say that it has rolled over the mechanical limits of the odometer, and that the true mileage is what is shown, plus 100,000 miles. I needed to have the speedometer replaced on my Mercedes, and when the new one came in, it had less mileage on it than the original. They sent it back to have the mileage corrected a second time, and when it came back, it was higher than the actual mileage by 1000 (aprox.)miles. They gave me the choice to install it then, or to bring the car back when the mileage was closer. They did sticker the door jam with a decal that showed the old mileage and the replacement speedometer / odometer mileage. That sticker had to stay on the car, and became part of the cars documentation in the Mercedes computer system. Personally, I can see no reasonable justification to reset it to zero, but that is my personal opinion, and others are free to disagree.
On cars of this vintage, it is extremely easy to disassemble the speedo, remove the odometer drum, and reset it to whatever you want. These photos are from my 62, but the odo drums are the same well into the 80s.
Thanks Eric, (other) Eric, and Joe.
Scotland has a different legal system to England, Ulster (Northern Ireland), and Wales also have their own variations to a limited extent. Not the same as the USA but I see what you mean.
I wonder how many nations have an all encompassing criminal code that is supposed to be universally applied.
When handling the odometer, be extremely careful not to touch the numerals, since they are decals, and extremely delicate. They are next to impossible to replace, unless you can find a NOS part, and even those many times the decals are falling off in the box due to age.
... Also note that in some cars and some years, the ink of the lettering on the glass (or plastic) of the instruments is water soluble - a few squirts of Windex or Fantastik and a wipe and your speedometer is a clean slate.
As i understand it, an offence which might be a felony in one state might be only a misdemeanor in another.
True, though such differences are not that common outside of "social" offenses (drugs, prostitution, abortion - political stuff) — in general our legal system and laws are based on British common law, so it's mostly just like you guys, only with a bit less in the way of "for the common good" (no such thing as an ASBO, for instance), and a bit more in the way of "individual rights" (except for Louisiana, which runs off of the Napoleonic Code, but you knew that anyway... ).
This mostly has to do with converting From paper documentation to electronic, most of the current laws and statutes will remain the same as applied to the hobby with the exception of the following proposal.
F. Exemptions
Section 580.17(3) currently exempts any vehicle which is more than 10 years old from the odometer disclosure requirements. The average age of the United States vehicle fleet has been trending upward and recently reached 11.5 years.[4] Because of this, NHTSA is proposing to raise this exemption to 25 years. NHTSA also requests comments on whether this exemption should be eliminated.
Eric,
What is interesting is that they are taking public comments to revise/ amend the regulations. What is interesting is whether the exemption should be eliminated.
I think these are all good topics.
Another controversial topic is when the frame has been changed and now you have a vehicle with two VIN's. If I recall correctly, the VIN on the frame is referred to private VIN, and the VIN on the Dash/ door jam, is the public VIN.
What is interesting is that they are taking public comments to revise/ amend the regulations. What is interesting is whether the exemption should be eliminated.
I don't think it can be eliminated, what do your do with the thousands of cars that are already exempted? I do think they may raise the exemption to coincide with antique status.
I think these are all good topics.
Another controversial topic is when the frame has been changed and now you have a vehicle with two VIN's. If I recall correctly, the VIN on the frame is referred to private VIN, and the VIN on the Dash/ door jam, is the public VIN.
The replacement frame issue comes up a lot and is a real problem if the vehicle is exported. Here in the states I believe that the body vin# is the primary one that is most important. Whats funny is the 57 Borgward I'm working on had a vin# conflict with an existing active vin# with another registered vehicle when it was imported to the US. TXDOT had to issue it a new vin# to register it here.
I have heard of DMV's issuing new VIN's on cars. I almost purchased a 1970 W-30 a couple of years ago, but found out the VIN on the frame didn't match the cowl VIN. I checked with DMV in the State on where the vehicle was for sale, and I was told that the vehicle needed to be inspected, and a new VIN would be issued and affixed to the door jam.
Simply put, tampering with an odometer whether to deceive or for whimsical reasons is looked upon very unfavorably by the Feds and I'd recommend not doing it. The "Federal Odometer Statement" has several boxes that can be checked: Actual Mileage; Exceeds Mechanical Limits: Not Actual Mileage. There can be severe consequences when one has changed the odometer reading and not disclosed that change. In my chosen profession, we call/called those who choose to alter the mileage without documenting "Clockers". Not all car guy/gals are in this group, but it seems we are always defending ourselves because of the few "rotten apples". The practice is a little tougher nowadays with the advent of digital readouts and computers. Back in the '90s, Ford vehicles had an odometer that would make the "tenths" digit automatically read in red if tampered with. I'm certainly not saying it cant be done to the newer stuff and to a degree still is. Another trick is to find a clean high-mileage unit, swap in a dash cluster from a wrecked, like model showing a more appealing readout and selling that vehicle as TMU (True Mileage Unknown). While frowned upon, this technically is "legal" and with the proper forms would hold up in court; I know it does at auctions.
My advice would be to leave the original odometer intact a take photos during the resto. Unless a car/truck/SUV has dramatically low mileage that can be proven without a shadow of a doubt, most buyers understand that the odometer on a 50 year old vehicle is NOT indicative of the true mileage.
This is the "OP" responding... after reading Joe P's reply I was satisfied with his answer, as he is usually spot on. I never dreamed of 65 replies and such a tug of war! If all of those in the tug of war would read the question again I didn't mention one word or imply anything about changing the odo! It was interesting reading though.
Dennis
This is the "OP" responding... after reading Joe P's reply I was satisfied with his answer, as he is usually spot on. I never dreamed of 65 replies and such a tug of war! If all of those in the tug of war would read the question again I didn't mention one word or imply anything about changing the odo! It was interesting reading though.
Dennis
This was you original post:
Originally Posted by dennis_30281
If you are doing a frame off restore i.e. new paint, overhauled eng, trans and rear end, suspension, everything! Can you legally by Georgia State law claim that the car has "0" miles on it when the resto is done. Talking about a 1962 Starfire.
Thanks Dennis
Just curious. How and why would you claim the car has "0" miles without changing the ODO? You asked about legality in the state of Georgia.
June 20th, 2017, 09:25 AM
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