UnkleMarc455

I was having a conversation when a chevy fan had to interupt, bad move for him! He thinks the 454 is the BEST motor GM built so I had some choice questions for him. 1) What is the BEST conversion motor for a boat - well we all know that the 455 Olds is choice motor. 2) What motor do they use to start the space shuttle - again its the 455 Olds. Then he went on to say that 69 Camaro 427 was the fastest production muscle car. Now it wasn't an Olds but it wasn't a chevy either, its actually the 1970 GSX Stage 1 455. Lastly he states they have the BEST motor now with the LS family, when I explained to him that the LS was first used by Buick I guess he couldn't take and stormed off. Sometimes its just better if you mind your damn bussiness and not interject yourself without knowing the BEST answer

Aceshigh

Sounds more like bias'd conjecture.
Unless you have some kind of proof to your claims, I have to side with the Chevy guy.
Opinions are subjective.

"Best" is a word that can have so many areas of meaning.
Fastest, Most produced, Most aftermarket support, Longest living, etc.

Either way Oldsmobile isn't even on the List for the best engines of the 20th Century, whereas Chevy and Buick's are.
http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_best_engines_th/

The best motor GM ever built was the Gen I Small Block Chevy.
That is why it became the corporate standard for GM
(That title will be lost to the Gen III and Gen IV LS Family soon)
The 2nd best motor GM built was the Buick designed 3.8L V6.

If you ask me (Subjective) GM corporate's LS family of engines far exceed's anything in production history.

Never seen one in a boat......God's truth. There's a BUTTLOAD more 454's in boats then 455 Oldsmobiles.
People can try to claim it's because they're cheaper, but the reality is if they
sucked they wouldn't out there in so many #'s with so much aftermarket support.

Shorter stroke, so they rev faster, higher, and gain more HP.
Not_Sure_If_Serious.jpg

I have NO IDEA where you heard this from. Olds lore 101 because it's a Rocket engine ??

Unless you're going to get into the argument that a Camaro ZL-1 is a Pony Car and not a Muscle car.....

The Camaro ZL-1 was faster then the GS , it had closer to 500 SAE net horsepower some sources claimed.
It was smaller, lighter, and had a blueprinted and balanced all aluminum Big Block that was designed for drag racing.

Technically Buick designed the 14 degree head that they used for NASCAR in the late 80's.
That head later was used by GM corporate to develop the new Gen III engines and beyond.

Either way, GM Corporate does have the best engines right now in the LS Family.
Ford's new 5.0L is a badass , but it's backed by a problematic Chinese made manual trans with failure rates up the ****.

380 Racer

I for one, wish you would move your Chevy crap to a different site. Wondering why you didn't just buy a Chevelle in the first place. What's the matter......can't build an Olds to go fast?

Aceshigh

Guess what, opinions are like a**holes. Everyone has one, and everyone thinks everyone elses stinks.
This amuses me more then anything. Life's too short to be so angry.
I'm just stating facts, and you're getting all upset about it and then throw in a dig as if it's supposed to upset me.

ClerksCoolWalk.gif

GTI_Guru

amusingly appropriate

Jamesbo

Gentlemen, Can we please not do this A-GAIN

1965cutlassragtop

i knew this thread was gonna be a battle.....this could almost be classified as politics!!!

Project Grandpa

As a Chevy guy who owns and is restoring a 65 Olds 442 that is essentiall worth nothing compared to the cost of the resto, this thread is pure junk. You better getcher head out your butt and realize who the REAL enemy is. But it is not me, I assure you.

It might be Osama, but he is allegedly dead, or living in Brazil with *****.
It might be Barrack Hussien Obama
It might be the monsters in your closet
It might that monster that checks under his bed for Chuck Norris before he hits the hay
It might be an ex wife or girlfriend
It might be the Terminators Bastard child

But Olds can't dance with Chevys

And the enemy is NOT me

Andy

alek72us

yes chevys are more popular. but that is because they are every where and cheap.
but i love reading how olds where the first to do alot of things.

i love my oldsmobiles and u would never see me stick anything but an olds motor in an olds.

ls's in my mind are more expensive to build and convert in to my olds and for what better fuel mileage (cant i get that with changing gears?) if i wanted better fuel mileage i wouldnt be building a muscle car. other than that if olds were still up and going the 1997 442's would have had ls's in them.

Aceshigh

Agreed. That's why I am upgrading mine to reflect that mated a modern 6 speed..
Tremec's 6 speeds are used across the board in every manufacturers high performance vehicle today.
There will be nothing more satisfying then showing an updated Oldsmobile on Power Tour to represent.

I think the Oldsmobile's are better looking muscle cars over Chevelle's.
But the facts are just the facts on the history of performance comparisons.
It's nothing to get upset about.

Funny thing is many of those classic muscle cars ran on very narrow poor composite rubber tires. Today's rubber compounds
for performance tires exceed what they even used in NASCAR back in the 1980's so imagine how far it's comesince the 60's/70's.
If you threw MODERN drag radials with much widerfoot prints on them , they'd ALL blow away their 1/4 mile ET's from the
60's and 70's.

I'd love to see a factory comparison on modern tires for all those vehicles today.
Problem is, many people have upgraded cams and valvetrains , etc so you'll never know.

Jamesbo

GREAT

Now we've got politics mixed in with the never ending Cheby/Olds debate.
Gentlemen if this doesn't stop,We're going to close this thread.

Aceshigh

Are you serious ???

IF you can't discuss performance comparisons like mature adults , what's the good of having a performance car forum ??

Jamesbo

Aces,

As long as everyone acts like mature adults, Ya'll can discuss the subject ad nausium.

For some reason, this subject seems to cause some people to get ugly.

We're just trying to keep this a friendly place.

Aceshigh

I respect that.

I will do my part to meet that expectation of civility.
I hope others can as well. I like to discuss performance comparisons.

IT's a great way to get ideas on where to upgrade and improve upon.

mmurphy77

I love my Olds and sold an SS454 Chevelle to buy my 442. That being said I'd have to say for production engines from GM the new LS9 has to be the greatest engine ever. BUT you can't really compare 60's technology engines with today's technology.

oldsguybry

THEY ARE ALL FAST except for mine lol

aliensatemybuick

Yet one more thread to blur the distinction between this site and ROP...

Jamesbo

bingo :d

coltsneckbob

What??? !!!! Come on everyone knows they use a match! Well, OK nowadays maybe a Bic Lighter.

jimbo67

To All. One thing we have to agree on is that GM has built so many bad *** engines,and cars over -what 60 years... take your pick and enjoy yourself!!

jimbo67

Actualy a roadflare

GAOldsman

x3

coltsneckbob

Actually, at least years ago I could have sworn I heard of boats having 455s. I don't know enough about boats or engine characteristics to definitively state why one is better then the other.....but if I had to hazard a guess I would guess that some boats actually need an engine with really good torque. I am thinking this because many types of boats do use the props to turn and slow down. In additional it is not so easy to churn through water on a start up. Try to stand in a pool and move your hands quickly through the water.

garys 68

Back in the late 60s and early 70s pretty much every fast jet boat came with a 455 Olds. That's because, you guessed it, boats love torque.
Sterndrive OMCs used primarily Fords and Merc used Chevy motors. But as with most things, quantity has a quality unto itself, so when Merc pretty much cornered the boat motor market, the Mark IV 454 became the primary big block marine engine, and later Gen 5/6 502s.
Good news is that the 455s were so prevalent in those jet boats, there are still companies making the marine parts for the 455.

coltsneckbob

What sort of modifications were made to a 455 to make it marine worthy?

Aceshigh

Thanks for the history lesson Gary.

That's something I never knew because it was before my time.
All I know is the past few decades like ya said.

Agreed. Jimbo brought up a good point too I also agree with. I'm just a GM supporter regardless of the division.
But truth be told I'd really LOVE to see a comparison of the GM 572 720hp Crate Engine against that LS-9
in the exact same vehicle. Straightline performance, I think the big block will win. Around a track, the LS-9 would.

Just for bragging rights.

VS

alek72us

yeah the first boat over 100mph was a olds 455 maverick wriedt jet boat.

GAOldsman

Come on guys lets let this one go. I am all for a 455 marine thread, if you want please start a new thread on them. But this is an OLDSMOBILE site. Wanna brag on da Chebbies do it elsewhere. I own a few myself and I consider myself a GM enthusiast in all, but again this is not ROP.com, GM.com or BOP&C.com it is classicoldsmobile.com and the bickering is not acceptable. So let's all agree that this is about Classic Oldsmobile's and not about a power struggle of what make done what when. Remember: Only YOU can keep YOUR foot out of YOUR mouth, so lets all let this thread die and try to be adults here. PLEASE? Thank you. And no I am not a hall monitor, I did not join this site to hear about a chebbie crate engine or anything else but Oldsmobiles if you please. Peace.
Scot

Aceshigh

Moderator Jamesbo already chimed in.

If the discussion doesn't interest you, don't click on the thread.
This is the "General Discussion" subforum.

Simple rule to follow IMO.

Bayou Olds

"Never seen one in a boat......God's truth. There's a BUTTLOAD more 454's in boats then 455 Oldsmobiles.
People can try to claim it's because they're cheaper, but the reality is if they
sucked they wouldn't out there in so many #'s with so much aftermarket support. "

Actually this is untrue for the most part. I am a boat guy and have run everything from 14 to 300 ft, and the 455 IS the choice for jet boaters and many skiffs and small fishery boats, simply because they produce better torque overall. There are many 454s, 496s, and 502s out there powering inboards as well as I/Os. In todays boats the stock GM is standard due to availability. But until it ceased production, Olds Big Blocks were the most sought after, sort of the holy grail for jet boats, but production levels kept them from being in many applications. Just because you never heard of Olds in boats does not mean that they are not prevelent, just you have not been around boats enough. I agree that todays engine are vastly superior to what we had (and many still have) back in the 70s, the numbers don't lie. BTW my favorite boat engine is a blown 502. Was running a 42 Fountain with twins, and it would run 93 on the GPS.

Redog

Hmmm makes me wonder now.

Should I put my 330 in an Olds, or buy a Camaro and put in it that

UnkleMarc455

Sorry f
They also used Olds 455s. My Sis and bro-in-law live about 5 miles from Beale AFB where the SR71 was being tested. After 2-3 starts at HIGH RPM, they were toast. As I recall, for $15 you could buy one off the scrap heap and haul it away. There were a LOT of ski boats in the area with 455s! This was in the mid-late 60s.
__________________
Sorry for listing the wrong information, I meant the SR71 Blackbird were powered up by Olds 455's -
@ Aces - he didn't say the small block was the best he said the 454. We all have our opinions and I prefer the 455 Olds that goes in my Cutlass but if someone wants to put any other motor in their car then its just that, their car! Can't believe you never seen a 455 in a boat before though.

Aceshigh

I had to go look it up, because I'm curious. It's an interesting piece of history.
Here's what I found.....


Sources and photographs.
Hill Air Force Base factsheet http://www.hill.af.mil/library/facts...et.asp?id=5758
456th fighter squadron http://www.456fis.org/STARTER_CARTS.htm
Looks like a fan site. http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/ag330_sr.htm

garys 68

There are some corrosion related items and, water cooled exhaust manifolds, cooling syatem (no radiators on boats), safety related (marine carb, spark arresred distributor/alternator), and an oil cooler.
But internal engine was typically the cam and valves. Keep in mind a boat engine is like a car towing uphill in 4th gear all the time, so a cam with a wide torque range is needed. In addition water is typically injected into the exhaust manifolds to cool and muffle them. Cams with wide lsa are used to prevent that water from being sucked back in the cylinder.

rustyroger

I bought a bunch of engines & transmissions from a gliding club in England a few years ago, a 350 Olds with a th400, a Mopar 383/727 and a 351 Ford.
They were used as launch motors for gliders, all converted to run on propane. They were being sold to make way for crate 454 Chevy units as they needed more power for the bigger gliders in the club.
They told me the Olds engine met their requirements best but were no longer available new and wanted to rationalise the launch units. I'm guessing they were industrial engines, I put the Olds unit in a Buick riviera to replace the original 307 but never got it to run properly.

f-85

x2

Project Grandpa

Coming from a bud who is lead fueler of the shuttle.

NASA=

Need
Another
Seven
Astronauts

Schne442

So what motor would be in a 2011 Olds 442 W-30 if Oldsmobile still was producing cars and there own engins ?????

billykissell

these arguments are like coke and pepsi. if the validity can be reduced to a bumper sticker, it's not much of an argument.

garys 68

Guessing the same thing that's in the camaro, corvette. It's not cost effective to produce another line. LS3,7,9,99? Or they could have their one off version of the above like the LS7 corvette or LSA in the CTS-V.
I think a better question is what would the exterior look like? I really like the new retro mustang, camaro, charger looks. The same treatment for a 72 442 would be a great looking car.