72455

I found a set of Virginia YOM plates from a third party seller that I want to register for my '72 Supreme, but when I went to the DMV, they told me that the only way I could use them was if I had a written letter from the person who has them registered (even though they are no longer in his possession) stating that the plates were sold to me. Question is, 1) Even though I have his name, how on God's green earth do I find him?, and 2), what if he's passed away?

I did some research and came across a thread our very own Joe P. started on an AACA website, so I'm hoping he can help...Joe, any suggestions?

rocketraider

That's a new one on me, and I've been as involved as anyone in keeping those plates available. Generally all VADMV is concerned with is that a YOM plate's number isn't in current use on either a Great Seal plate or another YOM registration.

1972 was the year Virginia switched to three letters/three numbers format on license plates after decades of a six number format with a letter prefix for trucks (T) or taxis (H or YH), or an (A) for passenger car plates if more than 999-999 plates were sold for that registration year. If you've found a 1972 set that is not currently registered to another owner and vehicle, I don't understand why DMV wants that letter.

Though I'll grant VADMV has gotten a little screwy. When I went to order my latest set of SCV license plates, the clerk tried to tell me they weren't available. Since when, since I already have two sets currently registered? Had to get the branch manager involved.

Is there another branch convenient to you? Or, though you'll probably be on hold for a while, call DMV headquarters in Richmond.

Vintage Chief

Dave, this is one of those instances where you need to take the bull by the horns. Most DMV personnel are going to be COMPLETELY clueless - you're educating the DMV personnel.

YOM plates for daily driver use in Virginia (Joe's thread)
YOM License Plate (my thread)

72455

That's the problem...they ARE currently registered to another owner and vehicle, even though said person obviously no longer has them in his physical possession. DMV even showed me the printout with the guys name and vehicle.

72455

That's my next course of action Norm. I'm going to go back to the DMV and speak to a supervisor to see if I can get a better solution. If that fails, then I'm going to try to call the DMV commissioner directly.

joe_padavano

I've done this twice now, and that question has never come up. First, whoever told you that is an idiot. By definition, YOM plated originally expired at the end of the year on the plate. That means they couldn't be registered after that, unless it's a recent registration under the current YOM provisions, and if that's the case then it would be in their computer. I've registered the YOM plates for my 67 Delta under the little-known VA provision that lets you use them for daily driver use. Since I knew the DMV would have no idea what I was talking about, I brought a copy of the law with me. It took the clerk two calls to a supervisor to finally get it figured out. Since then, two others in our club have done the same thing, based on my suggestion. I realize this will be difficult, but find someone at the DMV who has a clue.

Vintage Chief

Like my plate, the entity (owner) who last held possession of ownership of the plate neither owns the plate, neither has possession of the plate nor has that owner maintained any current registration of the plate during the past 51 years. There was/were periods of time when plates had to be surrendered (or destroyed) and new plates issued each year - protocols change over time (advent of the little yearly stickers).

In my case I registered my car & received a new DMV issued license plate. Yearly I pay registration taxes/fees for that license plate & I apply that little sticker to that license plate. Albeit, I pay yearly road use tax, county tax and fees for registration of my vehicle. My NC law states I must carry the currently assigned legally registered license plate and registration card in the vehicle while using a YOM license plate. My car is not registered as a classic or antique. Just a regular license plate issued to owner/vehicle. I also carry a printout of the NC STATE LAW which explicitly states the law. I refuse to fight the NCDMV. In a court of law my intent is NOT to circumvent payment of road use tax or any other payments to the state/county and I am abiding by NC STATE LAW.

I’ll add this. Like MANY states the License Plate issuing organizations are private organizations who are SUPPOSED to work with the DMV. These private organizations are clueless regarding YOM license plates. Read the VA STATE LAW, follow the law and carry documents which state the law. I’ve shown it to two friends who are NC state troopers - they told me if that is how the law is written, that is how it would be adjudicated in a court of law. Follow the law as written. How you obtain the YOM and the shenanigans required to register the vehicle are ancillary IMO.

72455

I dunno when the plates were registered...all I know is that according to the DMV, they are still currently registered.

joe_padavano

Then they can tell you who has them registered. If the seller is the person to whom they're registered, then it's easy. If not, you've got a problem.

Vintage Chief

As Joe stated. Same applies to me. The VADMV clerk is/was clueless. Read the law, follow the law. Personally I’d run with the YOM plate on the car and carry your current legally registered license plate and a copy of the law inside your car. But, the Commonwealth Of Virginia may beat to a different drummer.

joe_padavano

That would be illegal on a bunch of levels. Look, if the YOM plates are currently in the DMV computer system as registered to someone else, then either the seller sold his own plates and forgot to tell the DMV or the plates were previously registered but expired or the seller is selling stolen plates and that's a problem. In any case, the DMV has the current registered owner's name and address. If the plates are expired, there is usually a process where you send a registered letter to the last known address. If it comes back as undeliverable, it demonstrates that you made a good faith attempt to find the owner.

Vintage Chief

No. It is NOT illegal on ANY level. There is an EXPLICIT difference between REGISTRATION and OWNERSHIP. The YOM license plate has NOT been legally REGISTERED in 51 years. The OWNER of the plate is still identified as the same person who was ISSUED the plate in 1951. Again, the plate has NOT been registered in 51 years. You might want to read the NC STATE LAW.

joe_padavano

No, not true. VA DMV does not keep records for half a century. If those plates are currently in the system, it's because someone else had them registered as YOM plates relatively recently. And it is absolutely illegal in VA to drive your car on public roads if you are not displaying the plates that the DMV says are assigned to that car.

Vintage Chief

As I previously stated the Commonwealth Of Virginia my beat to a different drummer. As I previously stated, here is the 'brief' citation from NC STATE LAW:

§ 20-63. Registration plates furnished by Division; requirements; replacement of regular plates with First in Flight plates; surrender and reissuance; displaying; preservation and cleaning; alteration or concealment of numbers; commission contracts for issuance.
Any motor vehicle of the age of 35 years or more from the date of manufacture may bear the license plates of the year of manufacture instead of the current registration plates, if the current registration plates are maintained within the vehicle and produced upon the request of any person.

Vintage Chief

Here is the current, complete and unabridged NC STATE LAW (regarding YOM plates).

https://www.ncleg.gov/enactedlegisla...0/gs_20-63.pdf

joe_padavano

Should have stopped there. That is not the case in VA state law. Here is the VA state law for antique and YOM plates. Section A refers to newly-issued antique plates Section B refers to YOM plates. In VA the plates are registered to the vehicle and must be displayed on the vehicle. There is no provision for registering with normal plates and displaying unregistered YOM plates. This is the problem with assuming that one state's laws apply to another.

Vintage Chief

I DID NOT assume NC STATE LAW applied to VA STATE LAW - I believe your inference is not established. As I stated (repeatedly) follow the VA STATE LAW.

joe_padavano

Well, when you say this in response to my post that it is illegal, citing NC law in a thread about VA law is at best useless to the OP and at worst misleading.

rocketraider

What I think has happened: even though the 1972 alpha-numeric combination SHOULD have long been out of the system, there's a possibility that another plate bearing that combination got issued AFTER Virginia went to renewal stickers instead of stamping out and issuing a completely new plate every year. That occurred in 1973 for passenger car plates. If that plate, say ABC-123, is still registered to an owner who has renewed it every year and it's still registered to him, you won't be able to register the 1972 plate bearing that combination in your name.

Easiest solution is buy another pair of 1972 plates and hope for the best, or keep the antique plates you have.

The trick I've always used is to find a set of YOM plates with an A (more than 999,999 plates issued) prefix or less than six numbers. Those are less likely to already be in the DMV system, BUT... if someone else has a 1968 A111-111 plate registered to his 1968 car, you can't register a 1971 A111-111 plate to your 1971 car.

Even though it wouldn't be 100% accurate, you could try to find a set of 1972 truck or other commercial plates which will still be six numbers with a T (truck) prefix, a TH (truck for hire), or H (taxicab). TR (trailer), TRH (trailer for hire), D, FD and UD (dealer) plates won't work because they are single plates and Virginia still requires a front plate on privately registered passenger cars, in spite of the Virginia State Police lobbying to go to rear plate only for close to ten years now.

Surprising any of the 6-character plates are still in use since the Commonwealth has used 3 letter/4 number plates for nearly 20 years, but I do still see them once in a while. The wagon still had square-font IFA-956 on it till it died, and that plate had been on a 76 Custom Cruiser, an 81 Catalina Safari, and the Gray Ghost since I first purchased it in 1987. DMV tried to get me to replace it a couple times but when they inspected the plates they were still in great shape.

fleming442

Is it possible that the DMV is confusing the same number on a current tag that is NOT YOM? Or, are they saying your 72 plates are still in use? There is also the possibility of them being knockoffs and someone else having the real plates or vice versa. This seems more likely in a vanity plate situation versus sequentially generated state plates.

Vintage Chief

I take exception to your statements as I perceive your statements as conjecture & opinion, at best. Laws are written - that's a fact. Interpretation of the written law is decided by the judicial system. I was hoping the thread would have a graceful death w/o further discussion, evidently that isn't going to happen. Since, you undoubtedly will attempt to invoke my statements as misleading and useless, let's look at VA STATE LAW in more detail and see if we find anything worth discussion regarding your statements. BTW, there is NO mention of YOM (Year Of Manufacture) contained within VA STATE LAW - that is a fact; yet, I see no reason we can't employ its name outside of the law for discussion purposes (only).

VA STATE LAW (as written) states under Section B of 46.2-730:

Under VA STATE LAW, nowhere can it be found by inference, implication, reference, documentation or otherwise, ANY statement regarding the 'procurement' of "...Virginia license plates manufactured prior to 1976..." Any references regarding illegal and/or fraudulent procurement of these Virginia license plates is ENTIRELY conjecture on your part (unless you can provide documentation stating to the contrary). To impose your legal opinion/conjecture is unwarranted with regard to the simple registration of a Virginia license plate manufactured prior to 1976; however, it is none-the-less, you opinion (as is my refutation of same). There are avenues (some refer to 'loopholes') which can demonstrate non-explicit and/or explicit departures from written law (generally; however, based upon CASE LAW). Again, your implication of deciding the legality by which a license plate was obtained is without merit to the registration of a YOM license plate since the law EXPLICITLY and EXPRESSLY makes no mention of validating any proof of burden by the applicant with regards to "...Virginia license plates manufactured prior to 1976..." I respect your opinion, but it is merely opinion/conjecture.

Additionally, the VA STATE LAW explicitly states:

So, honestly, the applicant should be able to produce an original (YOM) "...Virginia license plate manufactured prior to 1976..." without regard to legal &/or illegal procurement. If that WERE NOT the case, then procurement should be and would be explicitly written into the law. Again, there remain departures from written law, but the VA STATE LAW makes not departure from the written law which either expressly or explicitly requires a burden of proof by the applicant to demonstrate procurement of "...Virginia license plates manufactured prior to 1976..."

For whatever reason, Virginia has chosen to EXPLICITLY allow these (YOM) license plates manufactured prior to 1976...not 1975, not 1935, not older than 35 years, not older than 50 years but; instead EXPLICITLY and EXPRESSLY "...Virginia license plates manufactured prior to 1976..."

Laws are written, they are subject to change, they are subject to interpretation...but laws are, in fact, written. No where does the law EXPLICITLY or EXPRESSLY provide guidance with regard to the legal &/or illegal procurement of the "...Virginia license plates manufactured prior to 1976..."

Finally, the only singular proof of burden required by the applicant is to demonstrate

I'm reading the law, as written...sorry you feel my statements are useless at best &/or misleading.

rocketraider

Pretty sure that's what's happened. When registering a YOM plate in Virginia, if that plate combination shows up as in use and registered on a currently issued plate or another YOM registration it can't be registered.

OP mentioned getting the plates thru a third party. Are they original issue 1972 Virginia plates or reproductions? Originals are stamped steel (not aluminum), painted black on both sides, with the raised areas on the front face painted white. That includes the thin raised border around the edge of the plates.

You need to have yer ducks in a row for these and understand how the YOM plates work when you go to VADMV. Lord knows I went to Richmond trying to defend them enough times.

When the YOM program was first approved in 1989, I did the very first YOM transaction at the local DMV office- which predictably didn't have a clue. After 4 calls from that office to Richmond DMV headquarters, my 64 Starfire had its 1964 plates.

And that's when the fun with the local cops started.🙄 I didn't get home before I got pulled for illegal plates, no state inspection sticker and no city license decal. When I handed the cop the copy of the state statute his reply was he didn't give a damn what that paper said.

When the judge (who owns a 64 Corvette roadster) finished with him he did.

72455

They are for sale on the innerweb in West Virginia, so obviously the person who has them registered is not the seller. The DMV did give me the name of the guy who has them registered, but the chances of tracking him down are pretty slim.

Vintage Chief

And, to that end, that is exactly my entire point. Any discussion outside of what is clearly written as VA STATE LAW is nothing more than opinion/conjecture. Laws are written, the judicial system follows the "written" law. Plenty of room for opinions & conjecture. If it isn't going to be a law, then it isn't written into law. If it's written into law, that IS the law.

rocketraider

Typical 1972 Virginia alpha-numeric plates, including a local license strip. These have been repainted; note the raised border isn't painted.



Here's a post-1972 passenger plate. Note it uses the same format except has annual renewal stickers.



and the post-1990 version, which is most likely to be causing the problem.




Every standard issue plate in last 20 years or so uses this 3/4 format, which absolutely shouldn't conflict with a 1972 plate.

72455

Interesting about the raised border not being painted, because every car I've seen at shows with the '72 Virginia plates all have the border painted white...and...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/32477159864...mis&media=COPY

rocketraider

That's the way the prison farm in Powhatan made them, with the painted border.

See what you can find in truck or taxi plates. Odds are pretty good no one will be the wiser. A 72 Monte Carlo here has been wearing a YH plate since 1997.

This is worth a try though I don't know how well it will work. Go on the VADMV website and look in the specialty plate section. Pick any specialty plate and try the create-a-plate feature. Enter the 1972 plate number including the dash in that and it will tell you if that combination is available.

72455

Well, I just tried it, and it said it was available.

rocketraider

Print a screenshot of that and take it with you to the DMV office. I'd call DMV Richmond first though and have someone there verify it.

It's like that knucklehead in South Boston office who tried to tell me the SCV plate wasn't available. They may not know all aspects of their business but knowing where to find it and being willing to do that makes a difference dealing with the public. Good luck.

Vintage Chief

Dave - You can purchase YOM plates nearly anywhere. One to two years ago I provided you a link to a super rare set of 1972 VA plates - which of course are gone now. But here's a listing of plates by a reputable company (with sales in every state).
NOTE: The URL link I'm providing is for a set of NOS plates. Yes, they exist in almost every/any state. Not a bad price for plates which have never been mounted on a vehicle.

https://www.brandywinegeneralstore.c...license-plates

72455

Norm, that's the site that has the plates I'm looking at 😁

Vintage Chief

Dave - Good luck in your pursuit. As I stated in my first post, which is overtly apparent reading the posts on this thread...

BillK

72455,
Do you know anyone at a fairly up to date automotive repair shop ? Most are using either Shopkey or AllData shop management systems. Shopkey allow you to put in a tag number and it will tell you what type of vehicle it is. That would let you know if maybe the tag number you have is a current number and what type of vehicle it is registered to. I bet that is what the problem is.

72455

Matter of fact, I have the capability to do that where I work, but the program will only recognize 17 digit VINs, so if it's an active plate on an older vehicle, it won't work, so we'll see.

Vintage Chief

Bill/Dave - You realize if you happen to find the exact same "number" is registered to "some other" car (for instance), this information provides no benefit to an original license plate (a physical piece of metal) manufactured/issued in 1972 containing the raised number relief (embossed number) of VIRGINIA 1972. Say you find the same number assigned to "some other" vehicle. You will then have to validate that vehicle with that number does or does not have a year number VIRGINIA 1972 raised relief embossed onto the physical piece of metal. Happy sleuthing. The chances of finding the exact same number on two original 1972 issued license plates is none. The chances of finding another tag with the same number is "possible" but proves nothing w/ regard to registering an originally issued 1972 physical piece of metal with the year number VIRGINIA 1972 embossed on the metal license plate. You're attempting to register an "original 1972" license plate. You may want to highlight that with the DMV clerk you're speaking with. There's a reason they provide this YOM service - it's to register the license plate (physical piece of metal) upon which the number is contained.

Fun71

Norm, so if the police on patrol see a vehicle and call in the license number, how would there be any difference in what is looked up and reported back to them?

BillK

Yes but I am pretty sure you can just put the tag number in without the vin cant you ? I just logged in and it gives you the option of EITHER the vin or the plate so I am sure you can just put the plate in.

lunaboy

just buy another set and move on, might as well get creative and buy some vanity

that say ---350 or ---455- or just 72

Vintage Chief

When you call in ANY license number you must tell them the state of registration - to begin with. If the LEO was truly doing their job, they will have identified the license number as belonging to a YOM registration based upon the YEAR as clearly and explicitly identified on the license plate itself. You can obviously only look up what is reported to someone. If the LEO failed to identify the plate as a YOM plate, there most likely would be no difference.

72455

That's what I'm trying to do😁 along with a "U" for U code...