Troys Toy 70

Here is a thread for someone to explain something that I have noticed most of my OLDS life. I cannot say that I have been around alot of Buick or Pontiac people, but I have been around a lot of Chevy people; and I have noticed a distinct difference in the way they talk about Chevelle/Malibu's and SS Chevelle/Malibu's, and the way Olds people talk about the Cutlass and 442. It seems the Chevy people love their A-bodies, and if it is an SS well that is even better. It seems that Olds people are the other way around. They love the 442 or W-30 and if it is not well it is just a Cutlass.

Before someone goes down the wrong path, I think this site is great and there are many helpful and great car guys, Olds guy/gals here. It just seems to be this tone not just here,although I have noticed in a few threads, but I am speaking overall of my 25 years of being a Olds Guy.

Is it because in 69 Chevrolet made the SS an option instead of a model, where in 68 Olds made the 442 a model instead of an option?

TenMidgets

X2 Troy...

compedgemarine

in the sense of the 68-71 then yes there is a difference. a cutlass can not be a 442 and a 442 can not be a cutlass. not so in the SS chevelle. I dont think anyone really looks down on the cutlass, it is just that the 442 is more sought after and prefered by most. I personally have a 70 cutlass SX conv. that I have had for 30 years and would not trade it for a 442. I have also owned a couple of 70 442's and a 68 442 and loved them too.

Olds_71_442

To me.....I see them all as 442s. It's an awesome name, so even if it is a Cutlass, I still call it a 442. I'm sure some hardcore enthusiasts frown on that thought, but I don't really care. I like what I like. And......there are no hardcore Olds enthusiasts in this area. Everyone here is crazy about Chevys and don't know a whole lot about Oldsmobiles......other than the brand no longer exists.

J-(Chicago)

As for my 2 cents, 71-72 are "just a cutlass" to me. Mainly because the motors were emasculated, and 442 was a sticker upgrade.

Sure, they look cool, but they can't be muscle cars with no muscles.

People can him and haw about correct carb numbers, decals, and snorkels etc. etc. but it all boils down to "is it fast?" in the end.

Troys Toy 70

Naturally, I understand that the 442 is more sought after than the Cutlass. I mean no disrespect to anyone that owns a 442. Matter of the fact, I look forward to owning a 70-71 442 one of these days. I bought my 70 Cutlass because it is easier on the pocket book right now. By the way I love the SX too.

Maybe its becuase if you throw a 396 or a 454 in a Chevelle, or even a built 350; then its a muscle car whether it is a SS or not. If you put a 455 in your Cutlass then its a good running Cutlass, but the 442 is the only muscle car, even the SX, the under the insuurance radar 442, suffers from this stigmatism a little.

Diego

Funny, but every Brand X guy called a 4-4-2 a Cutlass anyway. I guess a Road Runner is just a Belvedere?

ent72olds

Actually, what's funny is everyone calls my cutlass a chevelle.....

Napoleon1991

Happens to me all the time lol. Most people ive met think Chevy made the Cutlass.

jensenracing77

I have used the words "just a Cutlass" before but i don't look down on them as being less of an Oldsmobile. I like them all, including 88s, 89s, Starfires, Toronados,...

droptopron

Regarding OP I haven't noticed that. I don't think its derogatory. I think it speaks to that you have more freedom to do the car the way you'd like where as a color change on a W30 with aftermarket wheels & headers devalue it.

oldzzy

I really don't think that after market wheels, and headers are going to devalue a W30. Those changes are very easily fixed.

jaunty75

I think you're being a little unfair to the 1971's. That was the last year that the 442 was its own series and not just an option package on the Cutlass.

Also, the '71 442 with the W-30 option had 350 hp, according to Setting the Pace, which was the highest power available. 1970 saw 370 hp as the maximum available, so '71 was down slightly, but I would hardly describe it as emasculated.

For '72, though, that's true as the maximum hp on the Cutlass was down to 300.

J-(Chicago)

You have me there. W-30 is the exception however. Regular ol' 71 455's had 40cc dished pistons netting them a whopping 8.5:1 compression I'd venture to say. A wowing 8.2:1 if you were to replace the head gaskets with aftermarket fel-pro units.

jaunty75

Still not sure on this. According to Setting the Pace, the base horsepower available with a 455 in an A-body 1971 Oldsmobile was 320. For 1970, the base horsepower was....320. On top of that, the '71 455 with 320 hp was actually a lower-power option as the standard 455 engine featured 340 hp.

For '72, base horsepower in a 455 dropped all the way to 270.

Diego

1970
365
370 W-30

1971
340
350 W-30

1972
270 (although sticks and automatics were different)
300 W-30

oldcutlass

A 442 was a factory built muscle car, although the later models, as with all manufacturers muscle cars became anemic. Any car can be made into a muscle car

ziff396

But really, the Malibo's and Cutlass's, other than a number, are the same thing as an SS or 442. Only a few options different. In the high $ market, this makes a difference. For us average people, my Cutlass is still faster and handles better than a stock 442. I am happy with that. Don't need the numbers or letters on the fender to impress people. It's mine, and done my way!

Seff

Remember to account for SAE vs NET when comparing HP, guys.

Troys Toy 70

Yes, that is the other reason, I bought my Cutlass is that there is a certain amount of freedom to do with it what I want. I would agree that I would have an very hard time changing colors on a documented W30, which is what I plan on doing to mine both the exterior and the interior.

Troys Toy 70

x2. With mine, I am just going to go under the assumption that the plant shut down early that day, and had it run full production mine would have been a 442. Thus, I will just have to make it into a performance Cutlass.

Indy_68_S

Same here. But, when I say 'Just a Cutlass' , it's usually only when talking about my car...as an acknowledgment that the 442 was a model above mine when I'm asked "Is that a 442?"...Kinda of a modesty thing...

I thought about getting a license plate that was JSTACTLS.

I'm sure the phrases "Just a Skylark" & "Just a LeMans" are used similarly.....

jensenracing77

same here when talking about my Rallye 350. people ask me if it is a 442. Well... i have people ask me if it is all kinds of cars.

Troys Toy 70

It is interesting that since joining CO, I have paid alot more attention to the the bigger models. I must admit, I was a bit of an "A-body" junkie. Oldsmobiles had some great looks through the model years.

Since you have a R350, I throw an idea past you. I have often though of taking my Cutlass and painting it Blue with a Rallye Strip kit on it.

oldzzy

I think that would be cool, i always wanted to do a white one.

Troys Toy 70

IIRC, aren't you pretty good with photo shop, have you ever experimented with a picture of a white one?

tomsw31

I plan to use that line when I take my car to the track. "Ya it's just a Cutlass".

oldzzy

Funny that i never have lol

Bluemeanie

This guy thinks his is a Chevelle!!!
http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/3458717714.html

oldstata

I have recently met a guy local near me who has a 65 442

Now with that said his had a 400 mine 330 his no ac mine ac his has buckets mine bench his no reverse lights mine has reverse lights

I realize most of this is just add on package but I love my cutlass and I don't have to feel bad about changing a thing

OLD SKL 69

I had my 71 Supreme out the other day. In a parking lot, a guy said to me, "Nice car. What year Chevelle is that?"

To answer your question, I don't know if there are people who really look down on a Cutlass vs a 442. My experience has been that people just notice a really cool looking old car that certainly stands out from todays jelly bean/appliance mobiles.

chrisneu68olds

Funny? INSULT!

Seriously, "car guys" who don't know the difference, are NOT car guys.

stevengerard

One reason as mentioned is that from 68-71 the VIN designates the car as a 442 or a Cutlass and no matter what we would prefer the market puts a premium on a 442. In late 70 and 71 you could order an SX to be as much of a performance car as any other automatic 442 from those years but the VIN still tells the story.

I will say with 2 W30s in my garage there is a real sense of responsibility to keep them as original as possible. Though it doesn't bother me when folks modify original W30s unless its to the point you can't bring it back to original.

50% of people ask me if its some other car rather than a 442. 50% GTO, 30% Buick 20% Chevelle is what I would estimate.

Of the other 50% who know my car is an Oldsmobile I'd say 70% ask if it is a Cutlass. To which my answer is "yes it basically is but in 1970 there was a model based off a Cutlass and Olds called it the 442, and that is what this car is."

30% ask if its a 442.

of those 30%, Id say 80% have no clue what a W30 is.

100% of the people who know what a W30 is ask "is it real?"

Occasionally I will get asked if it is real and when I say yes its really a W30 they say "what is a W30?, I mean is it a real 442?"

ah64pilot

I love my '72 Cutlass'...neither one is a 442 and neither one will ever be a 442. But BOTH of them will outperform a factory 442 It isn't the number or name on the side for me, it's what's under the hood and how it drives and performs. That's my passion...

P.S. I am guilty of pulling up next to other Oldsmobile owners while I am in one of my cars and telling them they have a nice Chevelle...it's amazing how offended they get never realizing that I am driving a Cutlass as well lol!

Aceshigh

Naturally people gravitate to the "Better" of anything as being superior.
The only REAL difference is how they were delivered to the general public.

An ORIGINAL factory 442 or SS vehicle is worth more since it was lower production #'s.
Rarity = more $$$

Fact is though, for the average owner.....
A Cutlass can be bought for less, and turned into a far better performing vehicle.
Most people with 442's are not as mod enthusiastic since it degrades the value of an original car.

So it just depends on what kind of car enthusiast you are......one who prefers original,
or one who likes to turn the car into however you want without inhibitions. Myself, I'm
a Pro-Touring enthusiast. I love to use today's technology and power in yesterdays classics.

Bunser

Not to stray off topic, but everyone knows that white's the new black...right?

(I should have started a new thread on colour choices.)

For the record all Cutlii are cool, not just 442s oops 4-4-2 s and that other model M31 oops, W31. (Rallye 350, SXs, Vista Cruisers etc...)

Nilsson

I get asked often if my 442 is a clone.

1970cs

To support the OP, I was parked between a 70 W30 and 71 W30 and another sitting across from me at 105th in Lansing 2002, my 70 Supreme was treated like the plague be 90% of the people.

The guys around me said that my car was very nice and should not be treated as such! That took some of the sting out of it.

Pat

69cutlassragtop

I have 'just a Cutlass' also. Was only tempted to do the clone thing briefly. I like it better with the Cutlass badges. I'd like this for a license plate: "NOTA442"

stevengerard

coolest car I saw at Lansing was a 1972 F-82 only option was AC - rubber floor and all!