jensenracing77

i have always keep an eye on the Rallye 350 market but not real close. now were thinking real seriously about selling my Rallye 350 so i have been keeping a much closer eye on them. now that i am watching them closer i am finding that almost every one i come across is not even close to correct. mine has it's own issues but at least it is a correct car. i am not trying to pick peoples cars to death but most of them are way off. i understand that people can do what they want with there cars but if you were looking for a correct one they are hard to find. when i say correct, i am talking about cars with the wrong interior, cars with 4 speed and A/C, several with 455 engines, and even one with a flat hood and no wing. the guy was claiming his was a rare one ordered that way. you can find 442's that were built original all the time, i guess people are not that crazy about Rallye 350s to keep (or build) them original.

sorry for the rant.

Allan R

I think you have a valid concern. The Rallye 350 was a hot car IMO. Wish I'd bought one a long time ago. I think that because of the distinctive look, peeps figure they can flush $$ out of an unsuspecting market. I don't know how educated today's buyers are, but I think they know NEW cars, but haven't got a clue about old ones. And of course, they got the car from a friend of their cousins, who bought it from the original owners son back in 1979.....

Yeah I hear ya Eric. From what I've heard about the Rallye 350 it's a hard car to document without build sheet, broadcast card or proper cowl tag and build date. How many peeps actually know the limited run of production for these cars and the W45 stamp on the cowl tag? Betcha a dollar that most of those 'suspected fake' Rallye 350's don't have the proper coating on the bumpers.....or the ground straps.

jensenracing77

documentation on a Rallye 350 is very rare, i don't even have documentation for mine. the only thing most people can go by is the - - paint code and that does not confirm anything other than it has special order paint. i suspect the same thing, people trying to pass along a car and talk it up to be a "muscle car" at a price well under the 442s. i feel bad for people that get burned like that. i guess people just have to do there homework before shelling out there money.

stevengerard

I s was not aware of AC/4 speed, where did you see AC was not offered with a 4 speed. That's true for W31s and W30s but I have not seen documentation of that for W45s. These cars, as cool as I think they are, probably had a very limited audience in the late 70s and early 80s so many were changed or tweaked to sell not for authenticity.

I have heard (again its just me hearing) many stories of the dealer adding trim rings or changing the bumpers to chrome just to sell them in the first place.

sicky olds

From what i hear you wont have a build sheet since they were all built in Lansing. Also what is the w45 stamp that was on these cars? Main reason i am asking is i want to check mine to make sure .

@Jensen: Answer is simple buddy, dont sell the car and you dont have to worry about it lol.


But seriously, this will happen with any car if you think about it.

Allan R

Sicky, yes you're right they all were Lansing built. But they could still have window stickers, broadcast cards, original bill of sale...

Remember this? : https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-350-info.html

and this? https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post366364

I know you're concern. Your cowl tag shows this:


The W45 is a package straight out of the 1970 ordering guide. From the W Machines resto guide; Spotter Tips on Option W45 - Rallye 350

* All Lansing built
* Cylinder head number 6 is cast on front and rear of cylinder head
*If carpet is original, broadcast sheet may still beunder the drivers side front seat. If so, W45 will appear on broadcast sheet
* Paint code may not appear on cowl tag. (- - ) 51 Sebring Yellow was special order.

So I guess bottom line is the cowl tag may or may not have the W45 stamped on it.

ah64pilot

What was the difference between the Rallye 350 and the W-31? Wasn't the W-31 engine more powerful?

jensenracing77

Allan, i don't think any Rallye 350 had the W-45 on the cowl tag. i could be wrong but i don't think it had W-45 on the broadcast card either. it would only be on the window sticker or build sheet and you won't find a build sheet. if it was on the broadcast card i would almost have to see it to believe it.

jensenracing77

yes, the Rallye 350 was just a plane 310 HP 4 bbl engine with OAI. the W-31 was 325 hp. the only real fancy item you could get on the Rallye 350 was the W-27 rear end. i have never known of any Rallye 350 that got one and i have been around many of them over the years but it was available.

61reoldsman

I have a friend (Oldzzy) who mentioned that dealers had trouble selling them back in the day so they started repainting the colour of the car to appeal to more people,a shame really as they are a nice looking car in yellow ,but back in 1970 I guess they had to do something,anything to move the cars off the lots.

ah64pilot

So what's more rare? A Rallye 350 or a W-31?

jensenracing77

i don't know the production numbers but i think the W-31 was much more rare.

72 w29 all green

1970
W-31 = 1,352
Rallye 350 = 3,547

stevengerard

A W31 and it is in more demand, the W31 was a performance package, the W45 was visual package, a Cutlass with go fast looks. The W31s were surely underrated as of HP ratings. There were a lot of small block cars in 1970 with crazy graphics but less HP to get around high insurance rates

Allan R

I bow to anyone who is a Rallye 350 guy. I was just going by what's in the resto guide. BTW? The 'parcel' arrived today while I was out. Going to pick it up tomorrow. Thx again!

ah64pilot

I know what that parcel is Haha! Anyway, so with those production numbers I guess that's why I've seen Rallye 350's being resto-modded with 455's and such...

Even if it's not all original, the paint and decals still make it a cool looking car I wouldn't mind having one.

Creativeindy

Eric, when you go to sell that Rallye let me know please! If it wasn't obvious when I was gawking over it I would really like to own one. That is, if you do decide to sell it.

firefrost gold

I dont think they are any different than other olds in that You see 350 w-30s,
four speed H/o's I think some of it is since you have one you notice the non stock
stuff out there more than other cars.

stevengerard

good point, and guys like me without a rallye 350 wouldn't have the eye Eric has.

Allan R

Sacrilege! No W30 was ever a 350 engine from the factory. Were you thinking W31 by chance?

Steven - Help me with this: the only thing I really see really different between the W31 and W45 options (besides color) is the engine. The W31 had the 325 HC 350 and the W45 had the 310 HC 350 (L74) Aside from that they had viritually the same exterior options and could also have the same trans/rear ends.

lunaboy

[QUOTE=Allan R;440583]Sacrilege! No W30 was ever a 350 engine from the factory. Were you thinking W31 by chance?

except for the 1979 w30 i just sold.

RALLYE KID

Except for the F-85 Club coupe and the Sports coupe 4spd Rallye 350 cars which had a '69 H/O cam in it and a 70 442 4spd carb on it. I have seen two low low mileage Rally's with this cam and carb on it.

firefrost gold

[QUOTE=lunaboy;440585]I didnt get my point across I thought Jensen was saying whats with all the poor clones and miss represented rallyes that have popped up. My point was if you have a passion for a car you tend to notice that stuff sort of like the hole
22 24 26 wheel cars out there and the treads on how they disapprove of them .
Maybe this is not what Eric was trying to say thats what I got from it.

Allan R

[QUOTE=lunaboy;440585]Point conceded. I should have been more specific to the range of model production.

redoldsman

If I had more money and time (not nearly enough of either) I would find a nice Rallye 350 and then build a Rallye 350 convertible and a Rallye 350 wagon (flat top). The I would have 1 of 3,547 and 2 of none. I have always like the Rallye 350 and think this would be super cool. Other thoughts please.

Allan R

Hey Glenn,
I with you. I always liked the Rallye too. We'll see what happens this Friday. If I win the lottery I might be able to do all that!!

Here's a question for all: What would have happened IF Olds had decided to make the Rallye 350 it's own model like the did with 442? Produce it in any available color trim combo with accenting stripes? I think it would have started a new level of production and sales figures and prolly carried on into the future really well. Same with the W31 cars. IMHO folks were just getting used to the idea of the R350 when production stopped. Very limited production means very limited exposure and sales??

Can anyone here photoshop a Rallye 350 into other Olds colors of the day?

stevengerard

Yes, I'm sure there are a few other minor items such as the rear wing. That was actually an option on a W31 and W30 but came with the W45. Also the W45 came with bolt-on SSIIIs (body color coded) without trim rings. The only other 70 car with SSIIIs was the Pace car (white wheels with trim rings). I don't have the info in front of me but there may have been a difference in suspension as well from a base W31 and a base W45. In the end though yes the engine was the major difference and of course a huge difference, kind of like saying I had a cuda with a 318 versus a Hemi

ah64pilot

But if you translate the Rallye 350 into today's world it would be like the RS Camaro in a world of go fast SS's. I can understand why it never took off...it was a base model Cutlass with yellow paint and decals. If you're gonna spend the money, why not get something that looked sleeper or take the plunge and get a W-30 car?

oldspackrat

I have the original window sticker for mine, although it is shellacked onto a wooden plaque. I made a copy of it & stuck it in my window.
I think since there were so few made, not many people know what is correct & so they are easily passed off on other people with wrong/incorrect parts.
I have been thinking about selling mine, but I just took it for a spin today & she is running so good. Easily getting a bit sideways from a stop sign & barking 2nd really well when ever I want
I did a frame off on mine & it has all the correct parts & a few other options that it should/could have had.
I could probably get pretty good money for it, but I know it will never be worth what a similar 442 would be worth.
th_Resampled_2012-08-14_18-20-39_489.jpg?t=1344985660

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/a...-30-05_694.jpg

http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/a...-20-39_489.jpg

stevengerard

Agreed, but back then insurance premiums were the reason. Look at where we are at now. You can get a V6 mustang with over 300 hp and great looking graphics. For most of us that's just not right, you might as well at least get the V8 if not the GT but none-the-less its still available. That's why the original stang and camaro did so well. You could get an awesome looking, fun car with a 6 in it. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to drive. How many 6 cylinder new challengers are out there, a ton I bet.

ah64pilot

I agree that it was insurance. But was the cost that much different?

Let me tell you something about the modern cars though. I heard about the 300 HP V6 and was impressed...until I found out how much the cars weigh. My neighbor has a 2011 Camaro SS and was ******* on my "boat". So one day he stops by after a road race event and says "Man, my car weighs 3970 lbs with me in it and a 1/2 tank of gas, I wonder what your boat weighs?" So I tell him "Well last time I was at the track it weighed 3750 with me in it and a FULL 20 Gallon tank of gas."

He shook his head in disgust. I told him "who's got the boat now?" lol! But really, those cars have so much wiring in them they are hideously fat. So a 400 HP Camaro SS still performs like my 305 HP '96 WS6 did. The HP is a rating, but the whole car still performs just like it did in the good 'ol days.

stevengerard

I wasn't old enough to "experience" it but I have done some research and its just unbelievable how much premiums were in those days especially when a car only cost 3-6k, so yes it was a huge part of ownership. A friend of mine ordered a new 442 and when the insurance premium was quoted to him he had to take a Cutlass instead - I ear it all the time. Yes the extra HP now a days has to overcome the weight of electrical, air bags, etc but they are still pretty darn quick cars for what they are.

70olds455

I think the going price for the Rallye 350s are kind of low if you consider that they were a one year only low production car. I wonder if their value is going to go up in a few years.

firefrost gold

No disrespect to rallye owners but I hope not I still want to get one

jensenracing77

not likely much,

i agree that i would see the little details of a Rallye 350 more than someone that never owned one but at the same time, you can look on the net and in under 10 minutes find a 442 that is very original and correct. may be over priced but you can find them. A Rallye 350 you can't even find an over priced one that is correct very often. i think the one year only may have to do with it. each year a 442 may have been rare but over all years together there were many thousands of them. there was a guy in the 80s here in my town that had new take off bumpers from a Rallye 350. he said the dealer changed them out for chrome ones and he had bought the Rallye 350 set cheep because they wanted them out of the way. i wish he still had them.

wmachine

Eric, I believe the M20 4-spd *was* available with A/C. The M21 was the "no A/C" 4-spd. The M14 3-spd floor shift was also available.

And so far, I cannot find that the 3-on-the-tree was not the standard trans, so...........


Unless you can substantiate that claim, I don't believe those are original equipment. The '69 HO cam 400165 was widely used as a performance cam from '69-'72 including W33, W34, some H/O, and even some W30 applications. But never a small block. And the L74 only has one set of specs, thus one cam.

jensenracing77

Kurt,

i was hoping you would post here. i was wondering if the M-21 was available in a standard Cutlass or would the standard Cutlass only get the M-20? the reason i ask is that i have no documentation to my Rallye. Mine has the original 4 speed with the numbers stamped in it and it is an M-21, my hope is that the standard cutlass would not get one and that would be at least some proof that my car is more than a plane Cutlass. i know my car is a real Rallye but that don't count when it comes to selling it.

firefrost gold

Eric, what kind of number are you thinking? Just being a four speed will help it sell
faster imo.

DENT

You Rallye 350 guys ever look at Kijiji ? Theres one for sale for $15000 , I don't know how to put the link on hear but if you just do a search on Kijiji you should find it.

oldzzy

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehi...AdIdZ404752407

That's the second Rallye that i have seen without a spoiler.