wmachine

By "standard Cutlass", I presume you mean a Cutlass S.
I understand and agree with your logic, but the M21 and the M20 was available in any V8 Cutlass S. The trans and rear options were the same for any V8 Cutlass S, including the W45 (except for the W27).
You'll find all of this info in the '70 SPECS brochure on Wild About Cars.
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...aldisplayed=50

BTW, W31 vs. W45? Totally different sales targets. The W45 was made to go around the insurance guys. The W31 was made to run them over.

Allan R

Shane/Henry - that car on Kijiji claims to be all original GM documented and restored. Something that just stands out in the pics as being wrong though - where's the W35 rear deck spoiler that was included in the W45 Rallye package? That just sends up a red flag. As noted by others, the Rallye 350 is easy to clone and hard to authenticate. I'd love to see proof that it came from the factory without the spoiler.

Holy socks! You guys get up early don't you. Says on my puter you were posting at 05:21

507OLDS

Farmers have been planting them in fields for years,but they still can't get anything to grow from them.These two were for the boys.One auto,one stick.I guess they didn't like them too much.

Rally_350s.jpg

oldzzy

Man that's a shame!

DENT

X 2 ,

507OLDS

I've cut up my fair share of them as well.They make good organ donors.

You could also be a clevor individual as a Tennesseean that I know.He & his father owning twin Rallye post coupes.The fathers bone stock.The sons with a very healthy 455 in it.The son would take the fathers car to the track,for all to see it run 14's.He would then take his car out that night,with everyone believing it is a 14-sec car,and get a race with money on the line.Not a bad way to make some spare change,huh?

oldzzy

That's a cool story, as long as your not one of the ones that got taken lol. Someday i hope to get a Rallye, i have liked them since i was a kid.

Allan R

Brian - they look like they have lots of usable good parts. Nobody snapped those up yet???

StickW31

The W31 was made to run them over.[/QUOTE]


NICE

507OLDS

Those cars were in Ontario.Not sure if they are still there or not.I got a few from the Niagara Falls/Buffalo area,and one local,which was a post.

RALLYE KID

It is in this book that tells you about the cam and carb change on the RALLYE'S !! Also My Rallye F-85 has the H/O cam and 70 442 4SPD carb on it. Bought it from the original owner with 45k miles on it survivor.Also a guy up in Minnesota has a Rallye 350 sports coupe 50k survivor has the same combo.

wmachine

I have now that you pointed it out, and it is on the camshaft page of that manual. Cam 393859 was added 12/69, with a "usage" revision added 4/28. There is no indication there that the cam was for or exclusive to the W45.
What we don't know from this is when and how (or even if, technically) this made it into production. I have not yet scoured the Bulletins to see if it surfaces there.
One thing to keep in mind is that the dates are not hard and fast indicators. Theoretically they should be, but often the dates can be before or after the actual occurrences. And there was certainly no coordination of dates between the various sources like the blueprints and the bulletins.
So often it is necessary to pool multiple sources of info to come up with "what really happened".


I'm not sure what that book says and if it say where their info comes from. The problem there is that a book like that it is a secondary source of information and unless there references to specific sources, anything "said" can be suspect. What *may* have happened in that book is the cam was mistakenly referred to as a "H/O" cam, when in reality it was that stick cam 393859 that was brought on stream. H/O can mean Hurst Olds and also High Output. That's the kind of trouble we end up with when we "talk" in generalities.

ah64pilot

All I know is any of this information that you guys prove needs to be written down so future generations will have access to it. No sense in losing the information if you guys have done the legwork to verify it all. I love history, and Oldsmobile history is really cool. It's almost like the Skunk Works of the automotive industry...so many behind the scenes deals and swaps, it's interesting.

sicky olds

Man am i glad i bought one when i did. Now to get it running and then restored LOL

ah64pilot

I really wish I could come...I wish Lisa would let me go Chatbox

sicky olds

It will be fun. Might even get a cam like you had to take pics every so often of working on it .

and you are not on Chat box!!!!!!!!!!!!

jensenracing77

ya but some Rallye info has no olds documentation. without that, anyone in the future could modify the info. here is some info on bumper bolts that has nothing to back it up. the assembly manual says the bumper bolts will be yellow but SOME Rallye 350s came with the chrome capped ones that would be on a chrome bumper.

jrzybob442

Kurt is right about the cam. It was added after the Engineering Dept told marketing who was the boss of the Rallye 350 intro, not engineering like the W-Series cars, that it would be a stone w/o it.

Here is some stuff for your reading pleasure at Wild About Cars/AHPS. Since it is located in the Auto Documents Library, you will need to sign up to read/download it - free of course.

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9900335326553 Rallye 350 Brochures

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9920334607209 Rallye 350 Into Press Release by John Beltz at the Chicago Auto Show February 1970.

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9920334607209 PR Photos and Blurbs released bythe factory for Chicago Auto Show.

Bob

wmachine

You're not the only who thought that. That's why there is Wild About Cars. I'm guessing you haven't been there? That is exactly what is going on there.
Want to help out?

Wild About Cars. http://wildaboutcars.com. An information supersource, especially Oldsmobile. More Olds content than anywhere else on the internet and continuing to grow.
You'll find Chassis Service Manuals, Product Information Manuals (AKA Assembly Manuals), Inspector's Manuals, and other documents that will contain this and much much more.
Dealer Brochures, magazine ads and articles, and a home page for you online with your own garage where you can show off what you have.
Free to join, free to learn.

ah64pilot

Kurt, I am a member over there...and you do wonderful work. I meant that I was hoping those guys would validate their information and post it up on WAC...but I didn't want to be too obvious. I don't want IB to smack my pee pee

wmachine

Thanks for the support. I wouldn't worry about that. Anyone who takes any measures against what is going on there is pretty small and self centered. This is bigger than any of us.

jrzybob442

Thanks for the kind words AH64 pilot. Many CWO pulled my a*s out of the muck in VN, my hat is off to them.

BTW, we will be issuing the latest No Limits Magazine tomorrow, so anyone who wants to receive it should sign up by tomorrow PM,
you can find back issues at http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990401748571 and you DO NOT have to be a member to see these . . . to get a fresh one you do . . .

In there you will see a pitch for helper bees. we have a lot of little tasks that we could use help on and you do not have to be a techie to help. Consider it. That's how all the good stuff gets on WAC.

ah64pilot

Unfortunately the chopper I fly doesn't pull anyone OUT of the mud, we put them in it

jrzybob442

when you guys showed up . . . we were very happy.

ah64pilot

Usually half of the battlefield is

jrzybob442

You guys might also want to read the road test of the Rallye 350 which will be the "Back in the Day" Road test in this weeks No Limits Newsletter. You can rad/download the test; called "Bridging the Insurance Gap" here: http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990421368258

Written at the intro of the car, the test pointedly discusses the market the car was aimed at and why.

jonesolds442

Hey guys, this was an invaluable thread! I stumbled across my Rallye back in Aug. '12 (on Craigslist of all places) while scavenging for parts for my '70 442. I wasn't looking for another Olds, but I couldn't pass up on this Rallye-85k, #s completely match, and I drove it home. I knew they were rare (this one's an F85 bench/auto, no a/c), but I didn't realize how difficult it was trying to find a legit one that has all or most of the correct hardware, and that is in restorable condition. I guess I really lucked out! I will admit, the one thing that has me most baffled about this Rallye, after viewing countless other examples, is that although this one doesn't have a/c, the dash doesn't even have the center or side vents-it only has the floor vents! I've never seen that in another Olds, let alone another A-body...

2blu442

Hi Jones
Nice looking car! I've got a couple dash pads with no vents in the garage, and had a 1971 Cutlass without the vents plus a radio delete plate. Someone who knows for sure will have to comment, but I suspect it's because your car is a stripped down model (F85, bench seat) that it got that dash pad. John

jonesolds442

Thanks 2blu-

I was thinking that too, but I was also curious if it came without carpet (rubber floor mat car) from the factory because the guy I bought it from put carpet in (you can tell the carpet is new). I actually think that the rubber floor mat may be correct for the car because, as you said, it's a stripper-F85. But I've also seen a couple of stripper examples without the plush woodgrain dash inserts, which mine has. I just dunno...

oldsmobiledave

Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that the Rallye 350 did NOT include the spoiler as part of the W45 package. It is however seen on most cars but I understood it to be an extra cost option.

Anyone know for sure?

1969w3155

The spoiler was part of the package, it is one of the required options pre checked on the option form for the W45.

Mr Shifty Sidney

The W35 rear spoiler option was not part of the W45 Appearance Package option. The W35 option was required with the W45 option though, as was the sport steering wheel, sport mirrors, FE2 suspension and others. The W45 option was basically the paint and decals.

Don W

1969w3155

Actually it is listed under the W45 appearance pkg on the order form as a required option. It is also pre checked on the form as it is one of the required options.

1969w3155

Sorry, cannot get a larger pic.

Allan R

The order info is also in a publication by T Patrick Sullivan (part of the Motorbooks International Authentic Restoration Guides).
OLDSMOBILE 4-4-2 & W-Machines Restoration Guide.

See pages 108-109 & 121-123

1969w3155

yep, that's where my scan came from.

Allan R

Kind of thought so. BTW I think Scot (GAOldsman) might have a larger clear version of this page. I know he has one of the ordering option page showing the 442, W30 and W31. It's pretty clear that the Rallye not only had the deck wing, but also had the W25 hood and dual trumpet cutout bumper

1969w3155

I was annoyned enough last night from trying to get a good scan, that I ordered one off of ebay.

lemoldsnut

Something else to keep in mind. The Rally was made to beat insurance rates. So, one could have ordered or purchased one new and put a 455 in it. Back then not many were worried about preserving them. Most muscle cars had the crap ran out of them on a regular basis. I know there are lots of fake every kind of car out there. An lets face it, we Olds nuts, were done an injustice by the lack of records and documentation available on our beloved cars. Changing bumpers, trunk lid, motors, trans, interiors and on and on is very common on a car that is 42 year old cars. Yes it sucks now. But, back then many of us did all kinds of things to our cars we would not be caught dead doing now. This is what makes the ones that are truely as original as possible worth more. I still believe and tell others when building a car. Make it what you want. Not what anyone else wants. Unless you are doing it to sell it. Then do your best to make it as correct as you can. Once an original engine is gone, it will never ever be a numbers matching car again. No big BS story someone selling it has can change that. I can't tell you how many times I have heard oh it was a warrranty motor replacement. If that is the story then there should be an RO (repair order) from the dealer who did it. But, it still is no longer a numbers matching car. Just my input.

Allan R

Yeah, I know. It's hard to scan that page without wrecking the spine of the book. And, to start with, the printing in the book looks a lot like a .pdf insert which you know can be a little fuzzy.