What kind of 3 speed manual used in Rallye 350 ?
#1
What kind of 3 speed manual used in Rallye 350 ?
I saw a shifter on Ebay that is like the one that comes with the car I am getting. They say its a 4 speed car with 3.91 but not sure myself yet. The 69 Judge 3 speed was a HD Ford top loader. Is it the same on the 70 Olds 442 and or Rallye or is it a Muncie,Saginaw ?
#2
As far as I know,GM quit using the Phord top loader after 69. The 70 up cars used the Saginaw I think.
#4
They still designated the 3 speed HD specifically in 70 though as they did with the Pontiac ones in the 60's and I though all Saginaws were Low-Perf only like basic 2 barrel small blocks and six cylinders not a Muscle Car transmission?
#5
Olds,Pontiac and I think Buick all used the HD Phord top loader trans 65-69 but then again,I've never seen or heard of a Phord in a 70 & newer GM A-Body. It could be they used a heavier Saginaw 3 speed 70 up and called it a HD unit. I yield to the 70 experts.
Last edited by 66-3X2 442; September 7th, 2014 at 11:25 AM.
#6
Me and Kurt recently had an email exchange re: 3 speeds. From 65-69 both Top loaders and M-14s were used in A bodies and the rare big car column shift.
In 70 I think you are right the saginaws didn't hold up to the power unless smaller v-8's.
So makes me think back to M-14 and or the continued use of Fomoco.
This aspect I didn't go into detail w Kurt but he would know I would email him.
#9
People can mock Ford all they want, but that toploader is a better transmission than pretty much any 3 speed manual out there. I believe it was the only one that could survive the GM torture test.
#11
That's what I understood of them. The 67 428 Catalina 2+2 used it and that's a good amount of torque in a heavy car.
Last edited by GEARMAN69; January 29th, 2015 at 10:01 AM.
#12
I've got a 3 speed Phord top loader complete with 442 shifter if anybody reading this needs it. I also have the reverse light switch if I'm not mistaken. I also have the 69 back drive linkage for it if Pontiac is the same.
#13
Reading on the Pontiac board (PY) in the 70-72 A body tech section, the answer seems to be a strong Muncie iron case HD fully synchro 3 speed with a good rep for being quite sturdy.
#14
#16
If the manual is correct
The 1970 Oldsmobile chassis service manual shows two side cover 3 speeds for the A body and a top cover 3 speed for the B body.
The first side cover is standard on the 31 through 42 and 48 series. They are identified by 1" high letters on the right side of the case; RR for the L-6; RT for the V-8. (column shift)
The second side cover was standard on the 442 and optional on the A body series 32, 36, and 4200. The identification was 2" high letters RM on the right side of the extension housing. (M14 floor shift)
The top cover was only for the B body 54, 64, & 66 series. Its ID was 2" letters DA on the right side of the extension housing. (column shift)
The first side cover is standard on the 31 through 42 and 48 series. They are identified by 1" high letters on the right side of the case; RR for the L-6; RT for the V-8. (column shift)
The second side cover was standard on the 442 and optional on the A body series 32, 36, and 4200. The identification was 2" high letters RM on the right side of the extension housing. (M14 floor shift)
The top cover was only for the B body 54, 64, & 66 series. Its ID was 2" letters DA on the right side of the extension housing. (column shift)
#17
A guy has some rebuilt iron case HD Muncie 3 speeds near me for $300 ready to run but they are the ones with 3.0:1 low gear and 1.75:1 second , versus the 2.42:1 low I think it is supposed to be. But... if I build motor to W31 spec, the 3:1 low would be better match to the big cam tied to the 3.91 rear or what ever is in the car. I have not verified the 3.91 myself yet just taking their word he said it was code SJ. It does have the Limited slip lube tag though.
#18
The 1970 Oldsmobile chassis service manual shows two side cover 3 speeds for the A body and a top cover 3 speed for the B body.
The first side cover is standard on the 31 through 42 and 48 series. They are identified by 1" high letters on the right side of the case; RR for the L-6; RT for the V-8. (column shift)
The second side cover was standard on the 442 and optional on the A body series 32, 36, and 4200. The identification was 2" high letters RM on the right side of the extension housing. (M14 floor shift)
The top cover was only for the B body 54, 64, & 66 series. Its ID was 2" letters DA on the right side of the extension housing. (column shift)
The first side cover is standard on the 31 through 42 and 48 series. They are identified by 1" high letters on the right side of the case; RR for the L-6; RT for the V-8. (column shift)
The second side cover was standard on the 442 and optional on the A body series 32, 36, and 4200. The identification was 2" high letters RM on the right side of the extension housing. (M14 floor shift)
The top cover was only for the B body 54, 64, & 66 series. Its ID was 2" letters DA on the right side of the extension housing. (column shift)
BTW, I don't have a lot of luck finding those one and two inch high letters on the manual transmissions. Maybe I'm too near-sighted
Last edited by wmachine; September 8th, 2014 at 11:34 AM.
#19
I have a 3 speed from a 70 cutlass, 350 2bbl column shift, and one from a 70 cutlass 350 2bbl floor shift...the floor shift is the HD trans...i will get some pics..all the big blocks got the HD trans
Its nearly bullet proof...the HD muncie 3 speed..Ive had a few GTOs that where 3 speed cars, 70-72 and they had a better gear drop and you could beat on them as hard as you wanted
i couldnt break one..and i tried....it was the excuse i was looking for to 4 speed a car...and for the street..it was an awesome trans..just not as romantic as 4 speed or an M22...but they where tuff...i will get some pics up this week
Its nearly bullet proof...the HD muncie 3 speed..Ive had a few GTOs that where 3 speed cars, 70-72 and they had a better gear drop and you could beat on them as hard as you wanted
i couldnt break one..and i tried....it was the excuse i was looking for to 4 speed a car...and for the street..it was an awesome trans..just not as romantic as 4 speed or an M22...but they where tuff...i will get some pics up this week
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