I saw a shifter on Ebay that is like the one that comes with the car I am getting. They say its a 4 speed car with 3.91 but not sure myself yet. The 69 Judge 3 speed was a HD Ford top loader. Is it the same on the 70 Olds 442 and or Rallye or is it a Muncie,Saginaw ?

 

As far as I know,GM quit using the Phord top loader after 69. The 70 up cars used the Saginaw I think.

 

That's my understanding as well. Ask wmachine - Kurt he would know.
But think Mike is right far as use of Saginaw in 70.

 

They still designated the 3 speed HD specifically in 70 though as they did with the Pontiac ones in the 60's and I though all Saginaws were Low-Perf only like basic 2 barrel small blocks and six cylinders not a Muscle Car transmission?

 

Olds,Pontiac and I think Buick all used the HD Phord top loader trans 65-69 but then again,I've never seen or heard of a Phord in a 70 & newer GM A-Body. It could be they used a heavier Saginaw 3 speed 70 up and called it a HD unit. I yield to the 70 experts.

 

Me and Kurt recently had an email exchange re: 3 speeds. From 65-69 both Top loaders and M-14s were used in A bodies and the rare big car column shift.

In 70 I think you are right the saginaws didn't hold up to the power unless smaller v-8's.

So makes me think back to M-14 and or the continued use of Fomoco.
This aspect I didn't go into detail w Kurt but he would know I would email him.

 

Sounds good, I do remember reading 69 was it for duh Furd. Just curious how well thew 1970 HD 3 is for heavy use like a W31 drag build I assume it fully synchronized.

 

I have a long tail big car HD Ford top loader 3 from a 67 2+2 Catalina that likely is to be parted but I know its wrong for the A body though.

 

People can mock Ford all they want, but that toploader is a better transmission than pretty much any 3 speed manual out there. I believe it was the only one that could survive the GM torture test.

 

They are virtually indestructible from what I understand

 

That's what I understood of them. The 67 428 Catalina 2+2 used it and that's a good amount of torque in a heavy car.

 

I've got a 3 speed Phord top loader complete with 442 shifter if anybody reading this needs it. I also have the reverse light switch if I'm not mistaken. I also have the 69 back drive linkage for it if Pontiac is the same.

 

Reading on the Pontiac board (PY) in the 70-72 A body tech section, the answer seems to be a strong Muncie iron case HD fully synchro 3 speed with a good rep for being quite sturdy.

 

Something like this maybe?

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...nsmission.html


John

 

Thanks man, the visual will help if this is what I may need after I get cars paid and home.

 

The 1970 Oldsmobile chassis service manual shows two side cover 3 speeds for the A body and a top cover 3 speed for the B body.
The first side cover is standard on the 31 through 42 and 48 series. They are identified by 1" high letters on the right side of the case; RR for the L-6; RT for the V-8. (column shift)
The second side cover was standard on the 442 and optional on the A body series 32, 36, and 4200. The identification was 2" high letters RM on the right side of the extension housing. (M14 floor shift)
The top cover was only for the B body 54, 64, & 66 series. Its ID was 2" letters DA on the right side of the extension housing. (column shift)

 

A guy has some rebuilt iron case HD Muncie 3 speeds near me for $300 ready to run but they are the ones with 3.0:1 low gear and 1.75:1 second , versus the 2.42:1 low I think it is supposed to be. But... if I build motor to W31 spec, the 3:1 low would be better match to the big cam tied to the 3.91 rear or what ever is in the car. I have not verified the 3.91 myself yet just taking their word he said it was code SJ. It does have the Limited slip lube tag though.

 

Oz went just where I was going to send you. The CSM pretty well tells the story. GM started to make what they called a "Heavy Duty" 3-spd for the A-bodies in 1970, and it carried the M14 designation. I don't know how HD it really was. Seems they weren't confident enough to put it into the big cars, though. The Toploader carried through '71 for the big cars, which was the last year for any manual trans in the B-body Oldsmobiles.

BTW, I don't have a lot of luck finding those one and two inch high letters on the manual transmissions. Maybe I'm too near-sighted

 

I have a 3 speed from a 70 cutlass, 350 2bbl column shift, and one from a 70 cutlass 350 2bbl floor shift...the floor shift is the HD trans...i will get some pics..all the big blocks got the HD trans

Its nearly bullet proof...the HD muncie 3 speed..Ive had a few GTOs that where 3 speed cars, 70-72 and they had a better gear drop and you could beat on them as hard as you wanted

i couldnt break one..and i tried....it was the excuse i was looking for to 4 speed a car...and for the street..it was an awesome trans..just not as romantic as 4 speed or an M22...but they where tuff...i will get some pics up this week

 

Anyone with the '70 3 speed with a number of 3952662 on the case?