Posting here to try to settle disagreement about fair price with seller.

Here are the key details. It's a platinum hardtop with no vinyl roof (code is 14 14). Black interior. It's a console 4 speed car, power brakes, power steering, no AC. Comes with original window sticker.

The car has the base 442 hood. The original motor/trans/carb come with the car but are not installed. These were removed at about 83K miles to preserve them and to swap in a higbher performance motor. Working condition of the original pieces is unclear. The motor in the car now is a 455 E head, M21 unit built a reputable shop. The engine bay is very presentable but not freshly painted. The block itself is freshly painted and sharp. 2000 miles on this motor.

Overall the condition is quite good. There's no rust or rust bubbling on the car..there are a few edge areas where the paint has chipped off...one along the top of the fender where it meets the hood. a few more areas along the edge of the door, etc. Stainless and chrome areas are very clean without pitting.

One fender is the 71-72 style with the bumps along the top, put there prior to the most recent paint job in 2000. The trunk is unrestored...it seems some of the trunk mat fabric ripped off and stuck to the pan and the spatter paint faded off. I think the taillight lenses are the Cutlass Supreme style with the vertical gray rectangle trim overlay on the lens. These two things not a big deal but mentioned to give a fuller sense of the car. Tires not new, but not needing replacement. BF Goodrich lettering is clean.

Seats are in good shape. Carpets slightly faded. dash is good. Underside is clean.

There are SSII wheels on the car now and are painted black rather than silver, but included with sale are the original SS Is which are unrestored. The original bumpers are also included.

 

You seem to be missing some information key to anyone giving you feedback...

What does the seller want for the car and how much are you wanting to pay?

Its still going to be hard to get good opinions w/o photos or being there in person to judge... And even then, if the guy is set on his price, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks- its his car, so it will come down to weather or not you are willing to pay what he wants for that specific car or not.

Generally speaking, when buying old cars, i'll feel out the seller to find out his price range- but if a he is way out of from what i want to pay, i don't waste a lot of time arguing about it- i just move on to another car priced closer to what i want.

 

One piece of key info is that it's a 1970 442.

I intentionally omitted asking price and offer...only looking for opinions about the car

 

all depends what you want out of the car, 2 years into a restoration myself bringing the car back to "all original" has been a costly affair and obviously a lot of time. I say this because I have owned my car for almost 15 years and so much of it seemed "correct" until I started working on it. Then all the little pieces that were replaced or repaired stick out like a sore thumb.

Is the VIN a real 442 VIN, check the frame number under the drivers side door to see if that matches as well, you can't trust that the original motor and trans run so price in a rebuild if you want to get it back to original.

I'd be hard pressed to give an estimate as decent running hardtops seem to go from 10k - 25k - clearly I think this would be towards the bottom end but there are just too many unknowns to be accurate - I've recently seen some great 70 Hardtop Cutlii go fop 6-10 and some 442s that sound as good as this go for under 10k as well.

 

If I'm reading this right, this is, in short, a partially restored 442 with a non-original motor that works well and an original motor, condition unknown.

The interior is presentable (faded carpet, good seats).

Its mileage is 85,000 (2000 on the current motor, 83,000 when it was installed).

It has some paint issues with chipping here and there as you describe.

The front fenders do not match.

The taillight lenses are not original.


I do not believe that you have described a "car show quality" car. It needs some attention before it could be considered to be in that condition, which is #3 in the Old Cars Price Guide. So this would be a #4 (good running condition but needing restoration), or, maybe more accurately, better than a #4 but not quite #3.

The June 2010 issue of the OCPG puts the value of a #4 condition 1970 442 2-door hardtop at $9,400 and in #3 condition at $21,150. This is a large jump, and I would guess this car's value is in the low end of the difference. Maybe $11,000? $12,000? Something in there?

 

If the seller will not come down, or there is to much of a spread of what you think it's worth and what he thinks, then walk. If I were selling a car, it would be listed at what I think it's worth and other recent listings of similar conditioned cars. But if you think that it is worth much less, and he disagrees, well, end of story, look for a car in your price range. The seller might be high, or you might be trying to steal it, doesn't matter. Walk.

 

If the seller wants too much consider a different car. Without pictures it's near impossible to give an estimate.

 

I think most of you are missing the OP point. It does not sound like Viking is a complete novice. I think he is just wanting multiple opinions on a general range to see if the number in his head is realistic or not. The desciption was really pretty good but of coarse pics whould make it much better. Its sounds like a $11,000-$14,000 car to me.

 

I'm in the same "camp"....sounds like a $10-$14K car to me.

Partially restored????--HOW SO?? Sounds more like a "needs a complete resto but you can also enjoy it as it is" type deal. Everything (except the non-numbers drivetrain) is worn. Worn means it'll likely have to be replaced by you at some point if you take the path that many ultimately do with these cars.

Add in the fact that the economy is still in the tank and it's a buyer's market. There are A LOT of cars for sale right now and you can't tell me there are as many buyers out there willing to spend the same $$ they were a couple of years ago before the economy headed south. These are toys, not necessities and the toys get re-prioritized in the list when we experience economic conditions like now. There is no reason to pay up for this car IMO...not in this market and not in this economy.

It's great that it has a fresh motor from a reputable builder....but whatever $$ were dumped into that motor doesn't add the same exact amount of value to the car. Again, that number has to be discounted pretty heavily.

Put it this way....if you are a "numbers match" guy, then you'll be yanking the fresher drivetrain and trying to sell it somewhere down the road. Try doing that right now and see what kind of $$ you get for the 2000 mile motor and trans....not much compared to what it cost (if the guy spent something more than cheap $$).

The indisputable fact that surrounds this whole thing is the state of the economy and its effect on prices for things like "collector cars", etc. Who cares what XYZ car sold for at some overhyped auction. Tell the seller to go give it a shot and see what happens (hint--cars don't bring much unless they are fully restored and that means a BOATLOAD OF $$$ have been dumped into them). So---don't fall for the "false comparison" of auction prices some sellers use to "justify" an unjustifiable price. Your market is the seller to seller direct market and is somewhat dictated by local conditions also.

If the guy won't "get real" then move on. Don't overpay or let your emotions control the situation. I don't mean to sound harsh...I'm just trying to be REALISTIC.

Good luck and hopefully you two can come to an agreement. You have the $$ and the seller has a car. You don't pay to insure the $$, you don't have to store the $$ (the bank does that for you), you don't have to worry about someone denting or dinging your $$, if they get dirty you really don't have to wash them, oil doesnt' leak out of your $$, you can carry them around without having to spend more $$ to keep gas in them, they don't develop new rattles if you carry them around in your pocket, if they show a little more wear and tear they are still worth what they were yesterday.

You are in a much better spot right now.

 

yes even canadian, 10 -14 k sound good for what you are getting,up here a manual car is easy worth a couple grand more, cuz there so rare,production numbers on mine were less than 138 sold in canada in 65, and with the economy now guys are selling at a cut rate. lots of 30- 40 k spent, selling for 15 or 20 k. do look around and compare, sometimes worth a 2 hour trip to look.

 

i could have bought an 70 442 azure blue/blue 4 speed console w/ac last summer for 12k,had wrong trans,was a real nice driver.

max for that car is $9500