Vintage Air
#1
Vintage Air
Hey fellas, has anyone ever installed a VA system and afterwards your Cutlass would run high temperatures even without your air on? Mine never ran hot until now
#3
The car originally came with factory air but when I purchased the car I had the vintage air system installed, but the condenser does sit right in front of the radiator....My thing is this, How can Vintage Air sell all of these systems and not know that the condenser could restrict air flow and cause high temp issues? I've heard of people installing these systems and not having any problems. I even installed a dual 11in electric fan and I still have high temps
#4
The car originally came with factory air but when I purchased the car I had the vintage air system installed, but the condenser does sit right in front of the radiator....My thing is this, How can Vintage Air sell all of these systems and not know that the condenser could restrict air flow and cause high temp issues? I've heard of people installing these systems and not having any problems. I even installed a dual 11in electric fan and I still have high temps
#6
I have had VA for a few years now and have not noticed any difference in engine temp when off. The factory had the condenser in the same place so I doubt that is the root cause on an original AC car, especially if the rest of the factory HD cooling set up (shroud, clutch fan, etc.) is still in place. My temp does creep up running the AC at idle, but it does that a little with it off too. I have the original radiator that may need flushing/recoring/replacement at some point.
#7
Just noticed this, so the cooling system is not stock. That introduces a lot of variables, so what kind of radiator are you running and is it in good condition? Is the engine non-stock too? 455 or 350? What temp is it getting up to? A mostly stock engine with the factory HD cooling system used on AC cars should not really have any issues with VA installed.
#8
You started out with no condenser to restrict the air flow through the radiator.
Then you added a condenser, which restricted the air flow through the radiator.
Since it is well established that the original factory cooling system was able to keep the engine cool with a condenser in front of the radiator, if you had a factory set-up now, we would know that it was adequate, unless some part of it was defective.
However, you do not have an original factory cooling system, so we have no idea what you have, whether its parts are adequate, whether its parts are working correctly, or whether its parts are working correctly with each other.
As Dane said:
What, exactly, do you have?
How, exactly are these parts connected to one another?
What condition, exactly, are they in? and
How, exactly do you know that they are in that condition?
Once we have that information, and a large number of photographs, we can begin to try to help you to figure out what is wrong.
- Eric
Then you added a condenser, which restricted the air flow through the radiator.
Since it is well established that the original factory cooling system was able to keep the engine cool with a condenser in front of the radiator, if you had a factory set-up now, we would know that it was adequate, unless some part of it was defective.
However, you do not have an original factory cooling system, so we have no idea what you have, whether its parts are adequate, whether its parts are working correctly, or whether its parts are working correctly with each other.
As Dane said:
What, exactly, do you have?
How, exactly are these parts connected to one another?
What condition, exactly, are they in? and
How, exactly do you know that they are in that condition?
Once we have that information, and a large number of photographs, we can begin to try to help you to figure out what is wrong.
- Eric
#9
I have Vintage Air installed in 2 of my cars. Cutlass has dual Spal electric fans and Chevelle has a clutch fan. Both cars have big blocks and aluminum radiators.
No issues whatsoever.
No issues whatsoever.
#10
The car originally came with factory air but when I purchased the car I had the vintage air system installed, but the condenser does sit right in front of the radiator....My thing is this, How can Vintage Air sell all of these systems and not know that the condenser could restrict air flow and cause high temp issues? I've heard of people installing these systems and not having any problems. I even installed a dual 11in electric fan and I still have high temps
I never had an overheat except at idle with A/C on 100+ outside. That is mostly due to the cheapie radiator the P.O. put in it. I have a Champion all aluminum 3 row unit ready for use with the 403. We'll see how it does.
Tim
#11
Just noticed this, so the cooling system is not stock. That introduces a lot of variables, so what kind of radiator are you running and is it in good condition? Is the engine non-stock too? 455 or 350? What temp is it getting up to? A mostly stock engine with the factory HD cooling system used on AC cars should not really have any issues with VA installed.
#12
You started out with no condenser to restrict the air flow through the radiator.
Then you added a condenser, which restricted the air flow through the radiator.
Since it is well established that the original factory cooling system was able to keep the engine cool with a condenser in front of the radiator, if you had a factory set-up now, we would know that it was adequate, unless some part of it was defective.
However, you do not have an original factory cooling system, so we have no idea what you have, whether its parts are adequate, whether its parts are working correctly, or whether its parts are working correctly with each other.
As Dane said:
What, exactly, do you have?
How, exactly are these parts connected to one another?
What condition, exactly, are they in? and
How, exactly do you know that they are in that condition?
Once we have that information, and a large number of photographs, we can begin to try to help you to figure out what is wrong.
- Eric
Then you added a condenser, which restricted the air flow through the radiator.
Since it is well established that the original factory cooling system was able to keep the engine cool with a condenser in front of the radiator, if you had a factory set-up now, we would know that it was adequate, unless some part of it was defective.
However, you do not have an original factory cooling system, so we have no idea what you have, whether its parts are adequate, whether its parts are working correctly, or whether its parts are working correctly with each other.
As Dane said:
What, exactly, do you have?
How, exactly are these parts connected to one another?
What condition, exactly, are they in? and
How, exactly do you know that they are in that condition?
Once we have that information, and a large number of photographs, we can begin to try to help you to figure out what is wrong.
- Eric
#14
I have a fairly new 3 row radiator that came with the car, very clean, flows great like is should, no rust at all on the inside or out. Brand new 195F thermostat after trying the 160F that didn't make a difference Brand new remanufactered 350 rocket engine (stock specs), only exception is a new mild cam from comp cam, new performer edelbrock 350 Olds intake, new ceramic flowtech headers, fairly new 600cfm edelbrock performer carb....before the VA system the highest it ran was MAYBE 190...now it gets up to 220 and causing the overflow on the radiator some times and this is without even running the new VA, I have dual 11in flex a lite fan that turns on by relays set by the temperature desired, so I have the fans set to come on at 180, and even tried about 190.
#15
#16
#18
With a good radiator and a set of aftermarket fans, my vote would be either the fans are not set up correctly (direction reversed, not well sealed) or they do not move enough air.
My advice would be to either find a different fan arrangement (add a pusher on the outside, get new fans inside, try one of those junkyard Taurus fans that everyone uses, etc.) or set it up like the factory did, with an adequate 7-blade fan, a good fan clutch, and a proper fan shroud.
I would recommend, as a test, turning on the fans and sticking your head in the engine compartment - the factory set-up will blow your hair back pretty forcefully with the clutch engaged (if you've got any ), so I would expect the aftermarket fans to do the same thing.
- Eric
My advice would be to either find a different fan arrangement (add a pusher on the outside, get new fans inside, try one of those junkyard Taurus fans that everyone uses, etc.) or set it up like the factory did, with an adequate 7-blade fan, a good fan clutch, and a proper fan shroud.
I would recommend, as a test, turning on the fans and sticking your head in the engine compartment - the factory set-up will blow your hair back pretty forcefully with the clutch engaged (if you've got any ), so I would expect the aftermarket fans to do the same thing.
- Eric
#19
I have a fairly new 3 row radiator that came with the car, very clean, flows great like is should, no rust at all on the inside or out. Brand new 195F thermostat after trying the 160F that didn't make a difference Brand new remanufactered 350 rocket engine (stock specs), only exception is a new mild cam from comp cam, new performer edelbrock 350 Olds intake, new ceramic flowtech headers, fairly new 600cfm edelbrock performer carb....before the VA system the highest it ran was MAYBE 190...now it gets up to 220 and causing the overflow on the radiator some times and this is without even running the new VA.
#20
With a good radiator and a set of aftermarket fans, my vote would be either the fans are not set up correctly (direction reversed, not well sealed) or they do not move enough air.
My advice would be to either find a different fan arrangement (add a pusher on the outside, get new fans inside, try one of those junkyard Taurus fans that everyone uses, etc.) or set it up like the factory did, with an adequate 7-blade fan, a good fan clutch, and a proper fan shroud.
I would recommend, as a test, turning on the fans and sticking your head in the engine compartment - the factory set-up will blow your hair back pretty forcefully with the clutch engaged (if you've got any ), so I would expect the aftermarket fans to do the same thing.
- Eric
My advice would be to either find a different fan arrangement (add a pusher on the outside, get new fans inside, try one of those junkyard Taurus fans that everyone uses, etc.) or set it up like the factory did, with an adequate 7-blade fan, a good fan clutch, and a proper fan shroud.
I would recommend, as a test, turning on the fans and sticking your head in the engine compartment - the factory set-up will blow your hair back pretty forcefully with the clutch engaged (if you've got any ), so I would expect the aftermarket fans to do the same thing.
- Eric
#21
With a good radiator and a set of aftermarket fans, my vote would be either the fans are not set up correctly (direction reversed, not well sealed) or they do not move enough air.
My advice would be to either find a different fan arrangement (add a pusher on the outside, get new fans inside, try one of those junkyard Taurus fans that everyone uses, etc.) or set it up like the factory did, with an adequate 7-blade fan, a good fan clutch, and a proper fan shroud.
I would recommend, as a test, turning on the fans and sticking your head in the engine compartment - the factory set-up will blow your hair back pretty forcefully with the clutch engaged (if you've got any ), so I would expect the aftermarket fans to do the same thing.
- Eric
My advice would be to either find a different fan arrangement (add a pusher on the outside, get new fans inside, try one of those junkyard Taurus fans that everyone uses, etc.) or set it up like the factory did, with an adequate 7-blade fan, a good fan clutch, and a proper fan shroud.
I would recommend, as a test, turning on the fans and sticking your head in the engine compartment - the factory set-up will blow your hair back pretty forcefully with the clutch engaged (if you've got any ), so I would expect the aftermarket fans to do the same thing.
- Eric
#22
I put air conditioning in my 54. It immediately ran hot. I had already replaced the water pump with an AC water pump with 8 blades instead of 6 and put a 6 blade fan in place of the 4 blade. I then had the radiator re-cored from a 2 core to a 3 core (that is all that would fit in the stock tanks). I then installed an electric fan and shroud. Even with the air off, the car runs hotter than it used to. I have tried 160 and 180 degree thermostats with no change. I only have the factory gauge. It has not gotten all the way over to hot yet but the gauge has been almost 3/4 of the way over. It technically is not overheating but runs warmer than I would like even on cool days. There is nothing else I can do with it so I just keep an eye on it. It will be interesting now that the Texas summer is here.
#23
Be aware that not all radiators are made the same. Some aftermarket radiators have fewer tubes in each row and fewer fin-per-inch count. I can remember reading posts about folks replacing a factory 2-row radiator with an aftermarket 3-row radiator and the engine ran hotter with the new radiator. This was because the new radiator didn't have more cooling capacity than the original radiator.
#25
When I was installing A/C systems in Phoenix it was often a problem getting the air to go where it is supposed to so the vehicles would not overheat. Here are a few things I learned. I can see grass through the core support so the radiator is not properly sealed front to back. The factory cooling setup has rubberized canvas flaps that seal off the sides of the radiator to make sure air is forced through the radiator and not allowed to go around it. There should have been some foam strips that seal the new condenser to the radiator so that air flowing through the condenser will then be forced to go through the radiator and not divert to the sides and go around the radiator. You should also seal the core support to the sides of the radiator. Not with silicone or anything like that, but with the rubberized canvas or similar device to make sure any air flowing through the front of the car goes through the radiator. Also, anytime the A/C is on the cooling fans should be running. If the fans are not running with the A/C on the system pressure will skyrocket and generate a great deal of heat directly in front of the radiator. Try turning the fans on earlier because the factory fan is always turning and pulling air through the radiator. It just pulls a great deal more when the fan clutch gets hot and stiffens up. Your new fan system should operate in a similar fashion.
#26
#27
When I was installing A/C systems in Phoenix it was often a problem getting the air to go where it is supposed to so the vehicles would not overheat. Here are a few things I learned. I can see grass through the core support so the radiator is not properly sealed front to back. The factory cooling setup has rubberized canvas flaps that seal off the sides of the radiator to make sure air is forced through the radiator and not allowed to go around it. There should have been some foam strips that seal the new condenser to the radiator so that air flowing through the condenser will then be forced to go through the radiator and not divert to the sides and go around the radiator. You should also seal the core support to the sides of the radiator. Not with silicone or anything like that, but with the rubberized canvas or similar device to make sure any air flowing through the front of the car goes through the radiator. Also, anytime the A/C is on the cooling fans should be running. If the fans are not running with the A/C on the system pressure will skyrocket and generate a great deal of heat directly in front of the radiator. Try turning the fans on earlier because the factory fan is always turning and pulling air through the radiator. It just pulls a great deal more when the fan clutch gets hot and stiffens up. Your new fan system should operate in a similar fashion.
my radiator now. And the electric fans are set to come on at about 180-190 now, even if the AC is off.
#28
I do not have experience with a Cutlass but I did install a VA system on a 63 Buick factory air Riviera a few years ago. I got some interesting advice from the dealer I bought the system from. He said to ignore all the things you see on the internet and stick with as much factory engineering as possible. In my case that meant stock radiator, clutch fan, shroud, and 180 degree thermostat. Because my car was factory air it also meant a 4-core radiator and A/C spec water pump. I did seal my radiator to the core support using some old door weatherstripping cut to fit. I never had overheating issues and I live in Texas. One thing I see in your photo is that the fan housing you are using seems to be blocking quite a bit of the radiator core which may be an issue. If you convert to a shroud it needs to cover the entire radiator and also needs to be sealed so the fan / fans do not draw in underhood air. One last thought, once you have fixed the overheating issue you may want to install a coolant recovery system, this will eliminate overflow and increase fluid capacity in the system. Good luck!
#29
I do not have experience with a Cutlass but I did install a VA system on a 63 Buick factory air Riviera a few years ago. I got some interesting advice from the dealer I bought the system from. He said to ignore all the things you see on the internet and stick with as much factory engineering as possible. In my case that meant stock radiator, clutch fan, shroud, and 180 degree thermostat. Because my car was factory air it also meant a 4-core radiator and A/C spec water pump. I did seal my radiator to the core support using some old door weatherstripping cut to fit. I never had overheating issues and I live in Texas. One thing I see in your photo is that the fan housing you are using seems to be blocking quite a bit of the radiator core which may be an issue. If you convert to a shroud it needs to cover the entire radiator and also needs to be sealed so the fan / fans do not draw in underhood air. One last thought, once you have fixed the overheating issue you may want to install a coolant recovery system, this will eliminate overflow and increase fluid capacity in the system. Good luck!
#30
I do not have experience with a Cutlass but I did install a VA system on a 63 Buick factory air Riviera a few years ago. I got some interesting advice from the dealer I bought the system from. He said to ignore all the things you see on the internet and stick with as much factory engineering as possible. In my case that meant stock radiator, clutch fan, shroud, and 180 degree thermostat. Because my car was factory air it also meant a 4-core radiator and A/C spec water pump. I did seal my radiator to the core support using some old door weatherstripping cut to fit. I never had overheating issues and I live in Texas. One thing I see in your photo is that the fan housing you are using seems to be blocking quite a bit of the radiator core which may be an issue. If you convert to a shroud it needs to cover the entire radiator and also needs to be sealed so the fan / fans do not draw in underhood air. One last thought, once you have fixed the overheating issue you may want to install a coolant recovery system, this will eliminate overflow and increase fluid capacity in the system. Good luck!
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April 7th, 2012 04:53 AM